Income Tax return after death

[Sunnypad]

hello all

please don't flame me for what might be a very stupid question!

I know my father filed a tax return for various investments. I have to go and see his accountant tomorrow.

background - his paperwork is beyond chaotic. So I cannot check from a statement last year.

my mum seems to think he had a payment slip arrive sometime in December and that was paid by the deadline of 31 January. However, she never dealt with any of this so she might be mistaken, I guess?

This would mean he used the accountant purely for the purpose of calculating the tax? That seems a bit odd, is it normal?

Essentially, my mum thought that a payment slip should have arrived from HMRC to be paid by 31 January, based on the calculations sent in by the accountant. Does that sound right?

The accountant had to provide HMRC with estimates this year due to the timing of dad's death and illness etc.

I just thought I'd check here before calling HMRC and talking to the accountant. I am wondering if we can submit late due to his passing and that's why we haven't had a payment slip?

TIA for any help.

[gryffron]

Hi Sunny,
Lots of people use an accountant to submit personal tax returns. It's perfectly normal and "the system" has it built in. Though of course, the individual still has to provide the relevant figures for the accountant to submit.

The deadline each year for income tax payments to HMRC is January 31st.

He should have received the bill/invoice/statement almost immediately after submitting his return. But the deadline for (online) returns is also January 31st. You will need to confirm with the accountant that his return for 2017/8 has actually been submitted. Maybe not yet if he died last year and his affairs were chaotic. Or maybe the accountant is still awaiting final figures.

Actually getting through and speaking to HMRC can be a painful experience. So I would contact the accountant first and see where he thinks things stand.

Don't forget that because everybody's tax deadline is Jan 31st, the accountant is likely to be very busy for the rest of this month!

Yes, HMRC are generally sympathetic to delays from a deceased's estate. But the sooner you contact them the better. They don't like to be left dangling incommunicado for long periods.

Hope that helps a bit. Sorry for your loss.

Gryff

[Sunnypad]

thank you gryffron

he did submit some figures to the accountant before he died but they were incomplete and the accountant had to estimate some things - AFAIK they did submit the estimate to HMRC but it would have been around end November.

so the accountant submitted to HMRC....and then according to mum (who might be wrong) we should have had the bill from HMRC to pay ourselves? I wonder if HMRC have delayed calculating the bill because of the gaps and the estimates, but I would hope they would write to us and tell us that as we are quite lost. They have been notified of his death.

I would like to know what I'm talking about before I deal with the accountant so all information is helpful, thanks so much

I might not be able to check back on here tonight as I'm travelling but hopefully will be able to see replies before I see the accountant.

Side note - to some extent, I'm baffled why dad used an accountant - it seems like he would have just provided the figures to the accountant that would then go to HMRC? This is a bit premature, I'm not going to ditch the accountant tomorrow or anything, but I'm a bit baffled why dad used one. It looks like a form filled with interest, share income etc - what is the accountant doing that dad couldn't? There seems to be a monthly payment to the accountant. When I initially saw it on a bank statement, I thought it must form part of the tax payment, but I guess not.

[gryffron]

Accountants have access to professional software like Sage etc which interacts well with HMRC computers. It's perfectly possible to submit a tax return without this, but the HMRC website is pretty crude compared to the professional tools. So if your affairs are complicated, or you are not web savvy, I can understand why you would use a professional. Some people just don't like filling in forms.

The HMRC computers will calculate the bill immediately the figures are submitted. Even for an estimate. It's all online and live. So I would be surprised there is any delay involved in calculating the bill once figures are submitted to them.

Gryff

[yorkshirelad1]

HMRC general helpline is indeed often painful. But the HRMC deceased/estates helpline are pretty good.
Talk to your Dad's accountant.
Once you've found out what has or hasn't been paid/submitted, you will be able to make some progress. Make sure you take into account that you may have to do a tax return from April 2018 to date of death (which will probably be a part tax year) fairly soon. After that, you might have to do a tax return for the estate from date of death if there's any significant income received by the estate after death.
It can be a bit of a head-hurter to get things right (at a time which can be painful and also when there are a lot of things to be getting on with, and an accountant will be familiar with it and will be geared up for it. It may be worth paying a few pennies for the accountant's time.

IANA lawyer or accountant, but I've been executor for 3 estates (Mum, Dad and a friend): there's a really good publication by Which (which is no longer in print but you might might it on the web second-hand): "What to do when someone dies" ISBN 9781844901272

[Sunnypad]

Thanks for all the replies on this

The accountant was pretty useless but I rang HMRC bereavement and they helped.

Unfortunately another issue has arisen which is that mum appears to have been sent a new tax code for 2018/19. I could ask the accountant but as I'm not impressed with them, I thought I'd ask here first.

has she been sent this because of dad's death? It's the standard form saying "this is your tax code and how it was calculated" - no comments relating to the bereavement but I'm thinking, is it normal to get a code notice at this time of year?

TIA for any help.

[Lootman]

Accountants have access to professional software like Sage etc which interacts well with HMRC computers. It's perfectly possible to submit a tax return without this, but the HMRC website is pretty crude compared to the professional tools. So if your affairs are complicated, or you are not web savvy, I can understand why you would use a professional. Some people just don't like filling in forms.

The HMRC computers will calculate the bill immediately the figures are submitted. Even for an estimate. It's all online and live. So I would be surprised there is any delay involved in calculating the bill once figures are submitted to them.

A couple of points about this, since I also use an accountant to do my SA tax return:

1) The accountant can submit the return directly to HMRC but they don't have to. I believe that, if they do, then they must submit the return electronically. But some accountants do not like to do that. And some clients don't like it either. So there is always an option for the accountant to prepare the return, send it in paper form to the client, and then the client submits it by post directly to HMRC. This is what I do.

2) If the client submits the return then there is not necessarily any reason for HMRC to provide a statement of the amount due. The SA process itself derives the amount due, and the taxpayer can simply send a cheque for the tax due directly to HMRC along with the return. There is no need for a statement, nor for the individual to have an account with HMRC, nor for any online activity.

[XFool]

Unfortunately another issue has arisen which is that mum appears to have been sent a new tax code for 2018/19. I could ask the accountant but as I'm not impressed with them, I thought I'd ask here first.

For the tax year 2018-19 or 2019-20?

has she been sent this because of dad's death? It's the standard form saying "this is your tax code and how it was calculated" - no comments relating to the bereavement but I'm thinking, is it normal to get a code notice at this time of year?

They are usually dated January, though I have yet to receive mine. In my case probably dependent on recently submitted SA. This though would be for the 2019-20 Tax year.

[Sunnypad]

thank you X
it's for 2018/19

I thought it might be due to change in circumstances in this tax year

ends with an X

[XFool]

thank you X
it's for 2018/19

I thought it might be due to change in circumstances in this tax year

Then it is a new code due to changed circumstances, or information.

ends with an X

One of the so called "Emergency tax codes": https://www.gov.uk/tax-codes/emergency-tax-codes

AFAIK, nowadays the Tax Code can be altered during the year on a more or less real time basis.

[Sunnypad]

Thanks XFool