Capital Gains

[Steveam]

I have a sizeable unsheltered portfolio (every year a move an amount to the ISA using my CGT allowance to the full). The drop in CGT allowance has made me wonder whether this government or the the next might look at other aspects.

I have a lot of unrealised gains in shares which I’m happy to hold long term (AZN, BA., NG., RIO, and a few more). I also have some enormous unrealised losses (LLOY, BT., MARS, and more). As things stand I could hope to just hold the portfolio forever and the gains, of course, die with me but one never knows.

I’m slightly nervous that the chancellor, looking for pennies, might limit my ability to defuse these gains. I’ve just started taking action by realising some gains (I’ll buy some of these back after 30 days) and some losses.

This is also going to be an opportunity to rebalance.

Best wishes, Steve

[kempiejon]

Capitals gains allowances are use it or lose it, I also use the sales to realise gains and rebalance. I tend to leave my capital gains harvesting until the new year, generally I sell in March just in case a rouge corporate action [expletive deleted] up my well laid plans. I have paid a few tax bills on dividend income but having spent a few years getting my holdings sheltered in SIPPs and ISAs this March should see me removed from current taxes on investments.
The reduction in allowances is annoying but there are worse rates to pay, there is some allowance and it's tax on your profits so I am sanguine about the bills I paid but as I said I have now done enough to mitigate the risk for a bit.

[88V8]

I have a sizeable unsheltered portfolio (every year a move an amount to the ISA using my CGT allowance to the full). The drop in CGT allowance has made me wonder whether this government or the the next might look at other aspects.
I have a lot of unrealised gains in shares which I’m happy to hold long term (AZN, BA., NG., RIO, and a few more). I also have some enormous unrealised losses (LLOY, BT., MARS, and more). As things stand I could hope to just hold the portfolio forever and the gains, of course, die with me but one never knows.

I’m slightly nervous that the chancellor, looking for pennies, might limit my ability to defuse these gains. I’ve just started taking action by realising some gains (I’ll buy some of these back after 30 days) and some losses.

I agree and have commented previously that an easy way to tighten the CGT noose would be limiting the time that losses can be carried forward, so if you crystallise losses, use them...!
I also expect the tax rate to be increased.

Each year I make every effort to use the allowance.
Last year this went awry, because I sold various shares intending to buy them back after 30 days, but just after I sold China 'opened up' and SPs took a sharp uptick. Some of those shares are still above my selling price and therefore remain unbought

One way to protect against such 30 day market gyrations is Bed and Spouse, where OH simultaneously buys the shares that you sell, but of course that is not possible for everyone.

V8

[Holts]

Just a question on the off chance someone has found themselves in a similar scenario . Given the lowering of dividend income taxation I have sold as much of my mothers portfolio as possible to get it into a tax shelter .

However she kept no records , most are from The tell Sid era and I have no idea of how these have changed over the years , consolidations , rights issues etc . And then there are NatWest shares which some date back to early 70s but again no records of quantities etc. There is the 1982 rule for those but I can not even apportion them .

Is there a mechanism the Inland Revenue has for dealing with this ?

[scrumpyjack]

Just a question on the off chance someone has found themselves in a similar scenario . Given the lowering of dividend income taxation I have sold as much of my mothers portfolio as possible to get it into a tax shelter .

However she kept no records , most are from The tell Sid era and I have no idea of how these have changed over the years , consolidations , rights issues etc . And then there are NatWest shares which some date back to early 70s but again no records of quantities etc. There is the 1982 rule for those but I can not even apportion them .

Is there a mechanism the Inland Revenue has for dealing with this ?

Yahoo Finance have historical data on splits etc going back to 1970
https://uk.help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN2311.html

You can write to each company's company secretary for historical data on splits, rights etc etc.

If the shares are certificated, the certificate dates may help identify acquisition dates, but be careful as new certs are issued on many corporate events. Similarly the company registrars may have data on when the shares were first registered in your mothers name, and what subsequent changes occurred in the holding.

Whenever the NatWest shares were acquired they are likely to show a massive loss. The GFS virtually wiped out shareholders!

If you have copies of old tax returns, that may show what shares were held at what dates in the dividend schedules.

[Holts]

Just a question on the off chance someone has found themselves in a similar scenario . Given the lowering of dividend income taxation I have sold as much of my mothers portfolio as possible to get it into a tax shelter .

However she kept no records , most are from The tell Sid era and I have no idea of how these have changed over the years , consolidations , rights issues etc . And then there are NatWest shares which some date back to early 70s but again no records of quantities etc. There is the 1982 rule for those but I can not even apportion them .

Is there a mechanism the Inland Revenue has for dealing with this ?

Yahoo Finance have historical data on splits etc going back to 1970
https://uk.help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN2311.html

You can write to each company's company secretary for historical data on splits, rights etc etc.

If the shares are certificated, the certificate dates may help identify acquisition dates, but be careful as new certs are issued on many corporate events. Similarly the company registrars may have data on when the shares were first registered in your mothers name, and what subsequent changes occurred in the holding.

Whenever the NatWest shares were acquired they are likely to show a massive loss. The GFS virtually wiped out shareholders!

If you have copies of old tax returns, that may show what shares were held at what dates in the dividend schedules.

Thanks for taking the trouble to reply , I suspected it was going to be a laborious process , the NatWest losses I am relying on !

[Alaric]

Whenever the NatWest shares were acquired they are likely to show a massive loss. The GFS virtually wiped out shareholders!

Isn't it comlicated by takeovers and name changes?

I think the Royal Bank of Scotland took over NatWest which presumably meant that RBS shares were substitued for Nat West ones. Or was it cash? More recently RBS renamed itself back to NatWest.

https://www.natwestgroup.com/heritage/c ... p-plc.html

[Holts]

Whenever the NatWest shares were acquired they are likely to show a massive loss. The GFS virtually wiped out shareholders!

Isn't it comlicated by takeovers and name changes?

I think the Royal Bank of Scotland took over NatWest which presumably meant that RBS shares were substitued for Nat West ones. Or was it cash? More recently RBS renamed itself back to NatWest.

https://www.natwestgroup.com/heritage/c ... p-plc.html

It is , I just found a letter my father wrote to Pillings about RBS takeover , this is going to be fun ….

[Holts]

In case anyone else has the NatWest query a useful note here

https://investors.natwestgroup.com/~/me ... er-cgt.pdf

[Alaric]

In case anyone else has the NatWest query a useful note here

That's certainly what the OP needs. Now all he has to do is to work out which option his mother took.

[Charlottesquare]

Just a question on the off chance someone has found themselves in a similar scenario . Given the lowering of dividend income taxation I have sold as much of my mothers portfolio as possible to get it into a tax shelter .

However she kept no records , most are from The tell Sid era and I have no idea of how these have changed over the years , consolidations , rights issues etc . And then there are NatWest shares which some date back to early 70s but again no records of quantities etc. There is the 1982 rule for those but I can not even apportion them .

Is there a mechanism the Inland Revenue has for dealing with this ?

Yahoo Finance have historical data on splits etc going back to 1970
https://uk.help.yahoo.com/kb/SLN2311.html

You can write to each company's company secretary for historical data on splits, rights etc etc.

If the shares are certificated, the certificate dates may help identify acquisition dates, but be careful as new certs are issued on many corporate events. Similarly the company registrars may have data on when the shares were first registered in your mothers name, and what subsequent changes occurred in the holding.

Whenever the NatWest shares were acquired they are likely to show a massive loss. The GFS virtually wiped out shareholders!

If you have copies of old tax returns, that may show what shares were held at what dates in the dividend schedules.

Agree-dividend vouchers etc are your friend.

I once in the early 90s required to work through a portfolio, whilst the client had kept some purchase contract notes there had been myriad corporate events etc plus some scrip dividends over the years, I spent the best part of a week in the ICAS library in Edinburgh using Excdel (sic) annual income and capital manuals to rebuild his holdings- it can be a laborious process.

[bluedonkey]

Ch/Sq, You mean Extel I think. I remember those tomes well!

[Charlottesquare]

Ch/Sq, You mean Extel I think. I remember those tomes well!

That is it- for the life of me I could not remember its spelling, looked it up on line but just could not find. They were great publications but it was a slow ponderous process applied over a portfolio of 40-50 shares. (The reason for doing it was Daily Mail and General was dominating the client portfolio- I recall it was something like 80%, so their recently appointed brokers wanted to diversify but needed to understand CGT implications.