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Aviva and General Accident preference shares

Gilts, bonds, and interest-bearing shares
Alaric
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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127348

Postby Alaric » March 22nd, 2018, 11:06 pm

rippleog wrote:At no point in the last 5 years have the Aviva preference shares yielded 8%


It's only when the threat of an imminent redemption (or whatever you want to call it) would hold the price down to near 100 that they yield 8%. Even there the 8% coupon keeps the price above par, purely through the value of the remaining coupon(s), so the return to short term investor would be lower.

Alaric
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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127351

Postby Alaric » March 22nd, 2018, 11:15 pm

XFool wrote: its approach to business may well be to work out some 'clever' wheeze of transferring that risk back to me? Perhaps it will add to shareholders value by coming up with some similar wheeze whereby it doesn't need to pay me if and when I make a claim. I just don't know...


That is about the size of it.

They are also in the investment management business. Why it should be in the interests of those for whom they manage investments to introduce uncertainty and losses into a market sector is equally inexplicable. Actually it is explicable if you presume the CEO and CFO don't have a clue as to the likely effect of their pronouncements and the rest of the Board aren't able to stand up to them.

The rumoured explanation seems to be that an unnamed firm of accountants or lawyers has come up with a clever wheeze or legal interpretation which they have sold on to Aviva. Whilst a clever wheeze that reduces tax isn't necessarily regarded as morally wrong, short changing investors breaks premises of market trust and hence the widespread condemnation.

johnhemming
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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127373

Postby johnhemming » March 23rd, 2018, 6:58 am

https://www.ft.com/content/bd3f6106-2df ... 4b9f08f381

from the ft wrote:Aviva’s board, which is expected to decide on a course of action in the coming days, is now considering scrapping the restructuring. However, other proposals remain on the table, including buying back preference shares in the open market or striking a deal with preference shareholders on a tender offer price.


I would expect a formal announcement by the end of next week and possibly today. It is their best solution to withdraw the threat formally saying it is in response to concern from investors. That avoids going into the question as to whether the threat was lawful anyway.

Wozzitworthit
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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127383

Postby Wozzitworthit » March 23rd, 2018, 7:38 am


GoSeigen
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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127384

Postby GoSeigen » March 23rd, 2018, 7:43 am




As I wrote on another board, it is clear the board did not discuss their plans in advance with key shareholders. Being forced to back down in this way is very poor management and leaves the company with fewer options than they'd have had if they bided their time and consulted first. Heads should roll.


GS

thebarns
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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127385

Postby thebarns » March 23rd, 2018, 7:46 am

Hurrah !

Wordchild
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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127386

Postby Wordchild » March 23rd, 2018, 7:51 am

Of course they did not consult, frankly that has been obvious from the beginning. I think the pressure will be on the FD more so than on the CEO, but this is a complete shambles and the company has been harmed by this, the Chairman and other non execs will be furious.

swill453
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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127393

Postby swill453 » March 23rd, 2018, 8:06 am

GoSeigen wrote:Heads should roll.

Isn't that one of the things that would only happen in a "parallel universe"?

Scott.

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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127399

Postby ChloesDad » March 23rd, 2018, 8:29 am

I think the Aviva management should be applauded for their announcement this morning They have had the courage to come out and admit their mistake. They have shown humanity when I, for one, severely had my doubts about them.. Well done to them. I will now NOT be leaving their pension scheme.

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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127406

Postby Wordchild » March 23rd, 2018, 8:45 am

I don't think the Aviva management had any choice so I am not sure they deserve any particular credit for this about turn.
Its completely clear now that, in the recent meeting with the major institutions, the Aviva Chairman was simply taking dictation as to how to proceed. I believe this announcement was likely agreed at that meeting. Aviva needed to say something quickly , to clear the air, and to say it before its accounts and the agenda for the AGM were published.
I think a number of City institutions saw what Aviva was attempting to do as a systemic threat, so the opposition has been ferocious. Frankly this kind of reaction should have been easy to predict and it shows really poor judgment, on the part of the Aviva board, that this was even attempted.

OwenSwansea
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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127410

Postby OwenSwansea » March 23rd, 2018, 8:59 am

GoSeigenski should take a well earned break now. His holiday home on the Black Sea will be especially delightful at this time of year.

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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127416

Postby rick24 » March 23rd, 2018, 9:21 am

If the the CEO and CFO have to resign, that will presumably lead to a drop in the share price due to fears over loss of direction.

flyer61
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Re: Aviva and General Accident preference shares

#127423

Postby flyer61 » March 23rd, 2018, 9:33 am

GoSeigon should not take a break as you suggest OwenSwansea, quite the opposite. I for one would be more than happy for him to continue to point out risks etc that maybe lurking within the investment world.

Don't shoot the messenger...

Moderator Message:
In view of today's RNS by Aviva, I have locked this topic.

TJH


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