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Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

Gilts, bonds, and interest-bearing shares
TheMotorcycleBoy
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Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129237

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » March 31st, 2018, 10:33 pm

Hi all,

I currently have shares in a stocks and shares ISA with IWeb and have been looking there to try to find retail bonds to purchase on the secondary market, but they don't seem too easy to find.

Is it simply a case of IWeb not dealing in them, or is there a specific part of the website I should be looking?

I can see plenty on HL, but cannot find them on IWeb, despite using the advanced search feature.

If IWeb really is THAT useless for retail bond purchases, which platform would you recommend that doesn't charge too much to deal, or have a large annual charge? I'm not looking to purchase more than around £2k each time I buy a particular bond, and would be intending to hold them to maturity (with at least 5 years left to run).

TIA,

Mel

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129240

Postby Alaric » April 1st, 2018, 12:09 am

Melanie wrote:If IWeb really is THAT useless for retail bond purchases, which platform would you recommend that doesn't charge too much to deal, or have a large annual charge?



It's not always that easy, as even platforms that cover retail bonds, will only deal by telephone.

If you want online dealing, it's quite likely to be only Bond ETFs and funds that are available.

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129243

Postby Chrysalis » April 1st, 2018, 6:29 am

IWebwill generally deal in bonds over the telephone at online dealing prices I believe. Also their search function is not great.
Have you contacted them to ask if they can deal in the bonds you want, and what the cost would be?

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129245

Postby Wozzitworthit » April 1st, 2018, 7:14 am

Most retail bonds are available for on line dealing with Selftrade

Occasionally the order will be put through to a dealer (if you wish) - also options for max price, what to do if not filled etc - all online. Plus option for dealer to phone you if can't fill

I once wanted a rare one which wasn't listed - phoned them up and they put my order through and added it to their list so others could buy it

They are good with new issues. All done on line and you can edit order or cancel online in the days leading up to the close. Thye cover most new IPOs

Woz

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129360

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » April 1st, 2018, 8:29 pm

Wozzitworthit wrote:Most retail bonds are available for on line dealing with Selftrade


Thanks, have taken a look at Selftrade, and yes, there does seem to be a large number of bonds available through them.

I have seen though, that Selftrade charge an inactivity fee of £10+vat per quarter......

If we purchase bonds within a stocks and shares ISA, and then leave them there after the end of the ISA year is up (so not adding extra into the account), would we still be paying that £10+ per quarter for the entire time we hold the account there? So if we've left the bonds in there happily awaiting maturity for 5+ years, but aren't trading as we've purchased all we're going to within that ISA, and aren't selling them as we're waiting on them maturing, will we be charged each quarter, or will we only be charged the inactivity fee for the quarters we've not traded in during the tax year for that ISA, that is, the first year?

Furthermore, when I perused the site, I did not see any fee for opening the ISA with them, for example, with IWeb, we were charged a £25 account opening fee. Do you know if there is an initial fee for opening an ISA with Selftrade (I may have missed this bit of info!)?

Kind regards,

Mel :)

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129380

Postby Wozzitworthit » April 1st, 2018, 10:24 pm

The inactivity fee will clearly eat into your interest receipts, so you will have to do the maths to see if that is a show stopper for you

Over the years I have built up a number of investments, many of which I hardly trade , but as far as the retail bonds are concerned I manage to escape at least three quarterly payments, as I sell some/all of a particular issue when a better investment arises etc etc

When you start out it is a burden, but as you build up a portfolio , your interest receipts increase (so the odd quarterly fee pales ) and you will tend to trade more, therefore hopefully avoiding the odd payment.

I used to get hung up about it, but in the end they became insignificant

There are no charges for opening accounts.

The banking charges they show are a bit misleading as for ordinary BACS transfers there are no fees

https://selftrade.co.uk/informational/investing-with-us/our-fees

Woz

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129523

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » April 2nd, 2018, 3:06 pm

Wozzitworthit wrote:The inactivity fee will clearly eat into your interest receipts, so you will have to do the maths to see if that is a show stopper for you

Over the years I have built up a number of investments, many of which I hardly trade , but as far as the retail bonds are concerned I manage to escape at least three quarterly payments, as I sell some/all of a particular issue when a better investment arises etc etc

When you start out it is a burden, but as you build up a portfolio , your interest receipts increase (so the odd quarterly fee pales ) and you will tend to trade more, therefore hopefully avoiding the odd payment.

I used to get hung up about it, but in the end they became insignificant

There are no charges for opening accounts.

The banking charges they show are a bit misleading as for ordinary BACS transfers there are no fees

https://selftrade.co.uk/informational/investing-with-us/our-fees

Woz


Thanks for this Woz,

I think that one of us will open our next year's ISA over at Selftrade. As you remark, the inactivity charges should dwindle, as time advances, and with a little thought regards when we trade will minimise this further.

Matt

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129534

Postby mc2fool » April 2nd, 2018, 4:05 pm

Melanie wrote:I think that one of us will open our next year's ISA over at Selftrade. As you remark, the inactivity charges should dwindle, as time advances, and with a little thought regards when we trade will minimise this further.

Maybe, but I'd at least give iWeb a call to see if they can trade the bonds you're interested in first.

After all, why pay potentially up to £48 a year inactivity fee and £11.75 a trade - or more likely £17.50 if you have to do it by phone - when you can pay no admin charges or inactivity fees and £5 a trade, either online or by phone, with iWeb, who you're already set up with (and you've already paid the once-off-only £25 signup fee to)

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129540

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » April 2nd, 2018, 4:32 pm

mc2fool wrote:
Melanie wrote:I think that one of us will open our next year's ISA over at Selftrade. As you remark, the inactivity charges should dwindle, as time advances, and with a little thought regards when we trade will minimise this further.

Maybe, but I'd at least give iWeb a call to see if they can trade the bonds you're interested in first.

After all, why pay potentially up to £48 a year inactivity fee and £11.75 a trade - or more likely £17.50 if you have to do it by phone - when you can pay no admin charges or inactivity fees and £5 a trade, either online or by phone, with iWeb, who you're already set up with (and you've already paid the once-off-only £25 signup fee to)


Hmm....yes you're right this does seem to be the most cost-effective route.

Is buying bonds from the IWeb platform something that you yourself have experience of? We tried to find a nice (i.e. vaguely comparable to HLs) presentation of tradable individual (i.e. not bond funds) bonds on IWeb, and could find no such listings. (If you know of the link to the root of the listings then please share it). We were also lead to believe that inorder to purchase such instruments it is necessary to phone IWeb and quote the ISIN and IWeb may or may not be able to help. Indeed I believe in certain cases (they are some posts on LF describing such experiences) where IWeb were unable to purchase a particular bond on a client's behalf.

Finally do you know for sure that it is £5 per trade for a bond as a opposed to an equity?

thanks Mel

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129546

Postby mc2fool » April 2nd, 2018, 5:02 pm

Melanie wrote:Is buying bonds from the IWeb platform something that you yourself have experience of? We tried to find a nice (i.e. vaguely comparable to HLs) presentation of tradable individual (i.e. not bond funds) bonds on IWeb, and could find no such listings. (If you know of the link to the root of the listings then please share it). We were also lead to believe that inorder to purchase such instruments it is necessary to phone IWeb and quote the ISIN and IWeb may or may not be able to help. Indeed I believe in certain cases (they are some posts on LF describing such experiences) where IWeb were unable to purchase a particular bond on a client's behalf.

Finally do you know for sure that it is £5 per trade for a bond as a opposed to an equity?

I've been a long time IWeb client but I've no experience with buying bonds through them. I do think a phone call will answer all of your questions though. :D

The fixed interest securities I've dealt in the past I actually did through Selftrade, who I also had an a/c with, and doing it by phone was required. However, like many others, I junked Selftrade in disgust at them wanting to know not only my entire financial history but even how my relatives got the money that they left me in their wills. If that doesn't ring a bell, see here.

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129554

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » April 2nd, 2018, 5:26 pm

mc2fool wrote:The fixed interest securities I've dealt in the past I actually did through Selftrade, who I also had an a/c with, and doing it by phone was required. However, like many others, I junked Selftrade in disgust at them wanting to know not only my entire financial history but even how my relatives got the money that they left me in their wills. If that doesn't ring a bell, see here.

Blimey. Yes that's rough. Wasn't previously aware of that.....is Selftrade alone in this rather prying behaviour?

mc2fool wrote:I do think a phone call will answer all of your questions though.

Yup. Agree. Tomorrow, hopefully, we'll use the (attempted) purchase of some XS0089553282 bonds in an attempt to flush out the answers.

Mel

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129560

Postby genou » April 2nd, 2018, 5:47 pm

Melanie wrote: Tomorrow, hopefully, we'll use the (attempted) purchase of some XS0089553282 bonds in an attempt to flush out the answers.

Mel



Why that one ? By my arithmetic it is on a YTM of 1.76% .

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129562

Postby mc2fool » April 2nd, 2018, 5:55 pm

Melanie wrote:
mc2fool wrote:The fixed interest securities I've dealt in the past I actually did through Selftrade, who I also had an a/c with, and doing it by phone was required. However, like many others, I junked Selftrade in disgust at them wanting to know not only my entire financial history but even how my relatives got the money that they left me in their wills. If that doesn't ring a bell, see here.

Blimey. Yes that's rough. Wasn't previously aware of that.....is Selftrade alone in this rather prying behaviour?

One of the shames of TMF closing (and deleting) its boards is that I can't (easily*) point you at the discussions on the matter -- and the concerted media assault TMFers launched on Selftrade, bombarding all of the press about it and some appearing on BBC Money Box and the like (first 9 minutes, see if you can guess who are which posters here. :D)

Selftrade backed down under the bad press in the end, and nobody else has been quite so intrusive since (AFAIK).

(* unless someone has found the threads on the Wayback machine...)

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129567

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » April 2nd, 2018, 6:27 pm

genou wrote:
Melanie wrote: Tomorrow, hopefully, we'll use the (attempted) purchase of some XS0089553282 bonds in an attempt to flush out the answers.

Mel



Why that one ? By my arithmetic it is on a YTM of 1.76% .


We were only using this one as an example to see if they'll trade it, but it you're still logged, have you got any other/better suggestions for us newbies to look at?

;)

Mel

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129572

Postby Wozzitworthit » April 2nd, 2018, 6:56 pm

The Selftrade questionnaire was about four years ago I think, and, as reported, they dropped it.

Personally I prefer to trade on line rather than use the telephone, but maybe that's just me.

Also on the rare occasion I need to trade whilst away fom home, it's easier and more private.

Keep us informed as to how you get on - always useful for others when they are deciding who to use

Over the years I've heard bad and good about 'em all

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129577

Postby genou » April 2nd, 2018, 7:30 pm

Melanie wrote:
genou wrote:
Melanie wrote: Tomorrow, hopefully, we'll use the (attempted) purchase of some XS0089553282 bonds in an attempt to flush out the answers.

Mel



Why that one ? By my arithmetic it is on a YTM of 1.76% .


We were only using this one as an example to see if they'll trade it, but it you're still logged, have you got any other/better suggestions for us newbies to look at?

;)

Mel


Stuff worth a look, which probably have better liquidity than 40LV ( without giving advice of course ) :

PAG2
PAG3
IPF1
42TE

do let us know how you get on.

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129578

Postby PinkDalek » April 2nd, 2018, 7:30 pm

mc2fool wrote:... and the concerted media assault TMFers launched on Selftrade, bombarding all of the press about it and some appearing on BBC Money Box and the like (first 9 minutes, see if you can guess who are which posters here. :D) ...


The third one was easy (I've only listened 6 minutes in). ;)

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129584

Postby mc2fool » April 2nd, 2018, 7:49 pm

PinkDalek wrote:
mc2fool wrote:... and the concerted media assault TMFers launched on Selftrade, bombarding all of the press about it and some appearing on BBC Money Box and the like (first 9 minutes, see if you can guess who are which posters here. :D) ...

The third one was easy (I've only listened 6 minutes in). ;)

I ain't confirming anything! :D

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Re: Buying retail bonds - IWeb not very good?

#129661

Postby hiriskpaul » April 3rd, 2018, 11:48 am

iWeb are not particularly good when it comes to bonds, but will allow trade in most vanilla retail GBP issues launched on ORB and they do offer PIBS. I have only ever managed to deal over the phone with them, but this costs just £5 per deal. They do have an annoying habit of pulling securities. For example, I have positions in Co-op Group 11% 2025 (42TE) and Balfour Beatty 10.75p prefs (BBYB) at iWeb that they no longer allow people to purchase. There is at least one ORB bond I know of as well (Enquest 7% 2022 (ENQ1)) that they no longer support.

No support at all as far as I can tell for any institutional issues. Never tried iWeb for gilts.


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