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He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

Closed-end funds and OEICs
Alaric
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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#117600

Postby Alaric » February 12th, 2018, 1:46 pm

scotia wrote: Alaric provided some links which stated (in September 2017) that this management company is being probed by the FCA for a possible competition breach. And now they sack a fund manager. Is this related?


I thought the clear indication was that the FCA had caught this fund management group colluding with others to fix the price of an IPO, something they consider "against the rules". The fund manager has been sacked as deemed responsible. Whether he was acting on his own initiative or is a fall guy for a wider failing may be disputed.

scotia
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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#117610

Postby scotia » February 12th, 2018, 2:10 pm

Alaric - Yes that is what I inferred from your detective work. And if indeed the company has been found guilty, will there be a financial penalty - or does a sacrificial lamb suffice?

EmptyGlass
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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#117657

Postby EmptyGlass » February 12th, 2018, 4:25 pm

According to an article in the F.T. last week covering the manager leaving, River & Mercantile say it was unrelated to a FCA probe of allegations that they, along with three other fund houses, had broken competition law by illegally sharing information.

Alaric
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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#117665

Postby Alaric » February 12th, 2018, 4:42 pm

EmptyGlass wrote:According to an article in the F.T. last week covering the manager leaving, River & Mercantile say it was unrelated to a FCA probe of allegations that they, along with three other fund houses, had broken competition law by illegally sharing information.


Here's a version of this story

https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/invest ... estigation

Perhaps we are none the wiser.

scotia
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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#117667

Postby scotia » February 12th, 2018, 4:48 pm

Thanks EmptyGlass for more detective work.
So it still leaves us wondering what the reason for the departure was.

scotia
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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#117689

Postby scotia » February 12th, 2018, 5:57 pm

And thanks again Alaric for your most recent posting of the investmentweek article.
No perhaps about it - I'm certainly none the wiser!
And fortunately I'm not an owner of the R&M UK Micro Cap IT.

BobGe
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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#117771

Postby BobGe » February 13th, 2018, 5:22 am

scotia wrote: ...hence we have no way of knowing whether or not their funds may be affected - apart from their statement saying that they won't be.

If, having read and considered them, your view is that the firm's statements are deliberately inaccurate then, surely, you should position accordingly. Similarly, if you consider the change of fund manager a future performance concern.

Otherwise, I would hope most readers would understand the point I sought to make.

scotia
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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#117825

Postby scotia » February 13th, 2018, 10:34 am

If, having read and considered them, your view is that the firm's statements are deliberately inaccurate then, surely, you should position accordingly.

A statement may not be deliberately inaccurate, however it may deliberately fail to disclose relevant events - and that's what is concerning me (and others). Has something taken place - e.g. a regulatory violation - which could affect the future of their funds? We don't know.

Alaric
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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#117851

Postby Alaric » February 13th, 2018, 12:15 pm

scotia wrote: Has something taken place - e.g. a regulatory violation - which could affect the future of their funds? We don't know.


They have admitted they are under investigation along with a handful of other fund managers for alleged price collusion on the "On the Beach" IPO.

hiriskpaul
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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#117934

Postby hiriskpaul » February 13th, 2018, 5:46 pm

I don't know anything about this particular situation, but the immediate thought that has occurred to me is that only a fool gets caught first time. Once the FCA and SFO start digging this could get a lot bigger. If the funds have been damaged by illegal goings on I would expect the fund management firm to compensate fund holders. I once received very generous compensation from Deutsche over the Peter Young affair:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... harge.html

If I held any of the funds under management, I would look into the resources of the fund management firm and whether it is likely they have the ability to pay what may be a hefty fine and compensation. In my case there was no problem as Morgan Grenfell were taken over by Deutshe Bank.

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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#118303

Postby BobGe » February 15th, 2018, 8:06 am

scotia wrote:...we have no way of knowing whether or not their funds may be affected - apart from their statement saying that they won't be.
BobGe wrote:If, having read and considered them, your view is that the firm's statements are deliberately inaccurate then, surely, you should position accordingly.
A statement may not be deliberately inaccurate, however it may deliberately fail to disclose relevant events
Splitting hairs?

scotia wrote:...and that's what is concerning me (and others). Has something taken place - e.g. a regulatory violation - which could affect the future of their funds? We don't know.
"...apart from their statement saying that they won't be."

Seems like you consider they are be being 'economical with the truth'.

scotia
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Re: He's not the messiah, he's a very naughty boy - perhaps.

#118396

Postby scotia » February 15th, 2018, 3:10 pm

Bobge - you asked if I was splitting hairs.
Let me be quite clear. I believe that the full reason for the sacking of their Fund Manager has not been fully disclosed, and consequently there is uncertainty whether or not this will affect future performance.
I quote from R&M's RNS of 7th February:-
The conduct issue was unrelated to his portfolio manager responsibilities and has not impacted the pricing or NAV of any RAMAM fund and no client or investor has been negatively affected in connection with this matter.

However the share price of the R&M UK Micro Cap IT has declined substantially. Clearly investors have been negatively affected.
I am puzzled why you think
A disparaging thread that would be better had it never existed, IMHO.


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