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Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

Closed-end funds and OEICs
ADrunkenMarcus
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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#164550

Postby ADrunkenMarcus » September 6th, 2018, 7:03 am

FredBloggs wrote: These days, if you buy shares in IPO, I have no idea if this is still an option. Does anyone know?


I don't know. However, if you are subscribing for securities at a fixed price then surely it's much clearer how much money you're putting into your tax-sheltered account and therefore how much of your annual subscription you have used up? This is somewhat different to if you had existing shares that changed in price every second.

Best wishes

Mark.

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#164712

Postby scotia » September 6th, 2018, 5:39 pm

Hargreaves Lansdown have emailed their clients concerning the Smithson IT, indicating "You will be able to invest with HL. Applications will open soon". They have included a "Register My Interest" button.

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#164715

Postby Lootman » September 6th, 2018, 5:45 pm

ADrunkenMarcus wrote:
FredBloggs wrote: These days, if you buy shares in IPO, I have no idea if this is still an option. Does anyone know?

I don't know. However, if you are subscribing for securities at a fixed price then surely it's much clearer how much money you're putting into your tax-sheltered account and therefore how much of your annual subscription you have used up? This is somewhat different to if you had existing shares that changed in price every second.

Whether or how much you have subscribed to your ISA in the tax year is surely irrelevant?

The only thing that matters is that you have enough cash in the account for the IPO. That may arise from uninvested subscriptions, dividends or from the proceeds of sales.

The fact that it is an ISA seems moot. Except that in a taxable account the broker may grant you margin to buy a new issue even if you don't have the cash, whereas there is no concept of margin in an ISA.

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#164717

Postby Alaric » September 6th, 2018, 5:53 pm

Lootman wrote:The only thing that matters is that you have enough cash in the account for the IPO. That may arise from uninvested subscriptions, dividends or from the proceeds of sales.


Assume you've already subscribed the full amount to ISAs this year. You want to buy the new IT at launch and hold it in your ISA. Your ISA provider isn't offering this IPO. What to do?

I suppose there's a convoluted solution in taking out a new ISA with a participating Broker and asking for cash or shares to be transferred to cover the amount you want to invest. You are at the mercy of the transfer process though, which can be notoriously slow.

ADrunkenMarcus
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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#164723

Postby ADrunkenMarcus » September 6th, 2018, 6:12 pm

Lootman wrote:Whether or how much you have subscribed to your ISA in the tax year is surely irrelevant?


The question was about buying certificates and then having them added 'to your holding in the tax sheltered account providing you had enough head room on that years subscription allowance'.

Best wishes

Mark.

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#164775

Postby Lootman » September 6th, 2018, 10:09 pm

ADrunkenMarcus wrote:
Lootman wrote:Whether or how much you have subscribed to your ISA in the tax year is surely irrelevant?

The question was about buying certificates and then having them added 'to your holding in the tax sheltered account providing you had enough head room on that years subscription allowance'.

I do not understand why anyone would want to "buy a certificate".

If your broker doesn't offer IPOs then you have the wrong broker.

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#164997

Postby UncleEbenezer » September 7th, 2018, 10:36 pm

scotia wrote:Hargreaves Lansdown have emailed their clients concerning the Smithson IT, indicating "You will be able to invest with HL. Applications will open soon". They have included a "Register My Interest" button.

HL seem inconsistent. They offer, and occasionally even promote, subscribing to some flotations and launches in their tax shelters. I've done that several times: indeed, my entire Renewables Infrastructure sector holdings (TRIG and JLEN, one in each of the ISA and SIPP) were built in new subscriptions. But in other cases (e.g. the SSP IPO) they don't, and charge a high fee if you ask to bid. Or in the worst case, where I asked about investing in a Swedish company's IPO on the Frankfurt market, they wouldn't do it at all, though I can of course trade it now it's listed.

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#165038

Postby shawsdale » September 8th, 2018, 8:12 am

Thank you for the responses so far.
Perhaps unsurprisingly Smithson looks like being rather more mid-cap than small-cap, with its implied average market cap of about £7bn.
Out of interest I E-mailed Baillie Gifford for a more detailed breakdown of the market caps for the Edinburgh Worldwide and Shin Nippon portfolios.
Here is my very rough summary of the material I was sent, data as at 30th June 2018.

Edinburgh Worldwide had 89 holdings ranging in size from GI Dynamics (£12m) to Tesla (£44bn).
The average market cap was £2.93bn (£2.46bn excl. Tesla). 21 of the holdings had a market cap of less than £250m; 7 of these being less than £76m.

Shin Nippon had 71 holdings ranging from Morpho Inc. (£108m) to M3 Inc (£9.8bn). The average market cap was £1.57bn. 13 of Shin Nippon’s holdings had a market cap of less than £250m.

I suppose EWI and BGS are among the closest one can get to the investment vehicle I’d like to exist but is probably too research-intensive to be viable: a micro-cap/smaller companies trust with a global remit? Any other suggestions?

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#165039

Postby Dod101 » September 8th, 2018, 8:36 am

Lootman wrote:[I do not understand why anyone would want to "buy a certificate"..


Well some might want to 'buy a certificate' because it gets round any question of the problems with nominees. You may remember that before SIPPs, ISAs, PEPS and so on that was the only way to go. In fact I still hold quite a number of certificated holdings. I grant you that they are expensive to trade nowadays but I am sure you know perfectly well why one might want a certificate. I agree though that on the whole it is better to trade via a so called Trading Account or some other form of nominee and I should imagine most brokers will offer Smithson at the IPO.

Dod

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#165040

Postby FredBloggs » September 8th, 2018, 8:52 am

Dod101 wrote:
Lootman wrote:[I do not understand why anyone would want to "buy a certificate"..


Well some might want to 'buy a certificate' because it gets round any question of the problems with nominees. You may remember that before SIPPs, ISAs, PEPS and so on that was the only way to go. In fact I still hold quite a number of certificated holdings. I grant you that they are expensive to trade nowadays but I am sure you know perfectly well why one might want a certificate. I agree though that on the whole it is better to trade via a so called Trading Account or some other form of nominee and I should imagine most brokers will offer Smithson at the IPO.

Dod

You are correct, when I asked the question, it was because I last IPO'd at the launch of PIGIT. Back then, you got a certificate delivered by post. You then had a certain time to send the certificate off and have it added to your tax sheltered vehicle (then it was a PEP). I asked if that was still possible. Say I bought Smithson at HL but I wanted them in my ISA. It is not clear if II will participate in the launch of this new IT. Therefore, I would have to use my old HL account to buy but I want them in my II ISA. So, the modern way of doing what I last did way back with PIGIT. It still allowed with ISA or SIPP?

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#165042

Postby Dod101 » September 8th, 2018, 9:00 am

I am hoping that one of my broking/nominee accounts will allow a direct purchase into an ISA but we'll see. I have not seen a launch date mentioned yet?

Dod

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#165181

Postby xeny » September 8th, 2018, 5:46 pm

From the smithson web site:

Publication of the Prospectus 17th September 2018
Offer for Subscription and Intermediaries Offer Close 12th October 2018
Initial Placing Close 16th October 2018
Admission of and dealings in Ordinary Shares 19th October 2018

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#165667

Postby FredBloggs » September 11th, 2018, 1:49 pm

II and Smithson IT launch. From II -
Thank you for your secure message dated 4th September

We are taking part in the Smithson Investment trust IPO. At this
stage, we haven't published anything on the website. The prospectus is due to
be made public next week, so we will be publishing details once this is
available. SIPP/ISA eligibility details will be included. Please keep an eye on
the IPO section under the research menu.

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#165693

Postby WorldCupWilly » September 11th, 2018, 4:27 pm

HL and AJ Bell platforms have both said they'll offer the Smithson IT too. You just need to register interest in IPO's.

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#166310

Postby FredBloggs » September 14th, 2018, 1:04 pm

Not sure of modern rules with ISA and SIPP. At one time if you bought new shares you could send the certificate off to the plan administrator and they would add those to your holding in the tax sheltered account providing you had enough head room on that years subscription allowance. These days, if you buy shares in IPO, I have no idea if this is still an option. Does anyone know?
The answer to this question from the HMRC website is "NO". (You used to be able to, I did it several times in the past).

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#166349

Postby Lootman » September 14th, 2018, 3:00 pm

FredBloggs wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
Lootman wrote:I do not understand why anyone would want to "buy a certificate"..

Well some might want to 'buy a certificate' because it gets round any question of the problems with nominees. You may remember that before SIPPs, ISAs, PEPS and so on that was the only way to go. In fact I still hold quite a number of certificated holdings. I grant you that they are expensive to trade nowadays but I am sure you know perfectly well why one might want a certificate. I agree though that on the whole it is better to trade via a so called Trading Account or some other form of nominee and I should imagine most brokers will offer Smithson at the IPO.

You are correct, when I asked the question, it was because I last IPO'd at the launch of PIGIT. Back then, you got a certificate delivered by post. You then had a certain time to send the certificate off and have it added to your tax sheltered vehicle (then it was a PEP). I asked if that was still possible. Say I bought Smithson at HL but I wanted them in my ISA. It is not clear if II will participate in the launch of this new IT. Therefore, I would have to use my old HL account to buy but I want them in my II ISA. So, the modern way of doing what I last did way back with PIGIT. It still allowed with ISA or SIPP?

I can understand why someone might want a certified holding. But since those are not possible within an ISA, I still cannot see why anyone would want to apply for a certified holding and then immediately transfer that to an ISA. Surely EITHER you keep the certificate and have it as a taxable holding OR you want it for an ISA in which case you would just apply to buy the IPO from within your ISA, first making sure there is sufficient cash in it.

Haven't PEPs and ISAs always been nominee holdings only?

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#166402

Postby Dod101 » September 14th, 2018, 5:31 pm

Lootman wrote:Haven't PEPs and ISAs always been nominee holdings only?


As far as I know that is the case. I will be applying via my ISA provider and so place it directly into my ISA, provided that is that my ISA provider (where I have spare cash) is participating in the IPO.

Dod

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#166821

Postby ADrunkenMarcus » September 17th, 2018, 7:59 am

The prospectus is being unleashed today.

Best wishes

Mark.

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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#167072

Postby FredBloggs » September 18th, 2018, 1:53 am

Applications are open at smithson.co.uk, not yet appearing at ii. Perhaps later today?

ADrunkenMarcus
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Re: Smithson: new Fundsmith Investment Trust to launch

#167076

Postby ADrunkenMarcus » September 18th, 2018, 6:51 am

The same was true for ATS. :(

Best wishes

Mark.


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