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Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

Closed-end funds and OEICs
Aminatidi
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Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#217749

Postby Aminatidi » April 27th, 2019, 3:59 pm

My current ISA looks like this:

25% Capital Gearing Trust
25% Fundsmith
25% Lindsell Train Global Equity
25% Finsbury Growth Trust

I'm comfortable with my direct equity exposure but don't want to add any more.

I've got around 20% to add with some transfers and allowances.

One option is to just add more Capital Gearing Trust as it's a safe reliable option that has some interesting allocations outside the "usual" passive multi-assets.

I was contemplating RIT Capital but the premium is off-putting though I am watching the thread on this forum.

Personal Assets is glacial and a little too perma-bear ish to the point where I'd probably just stay in cash.

Thoughts welcome :)

Dod101
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Re: Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#217779

Postby Dod101 » April 27th, 2019, 7:23 pm

I'm not sure what you mean by a Flexible IT but Caledonia might fit the bill. It is on a discount of around 16%, has quite a lot of private equity type holdings and has a decent record. I think that it might fit well with your other holdings which are quite conservative as is Caledonia.

They cannot do much about the discount because buybacks are out as the Cayzer Trust (owned by the Cayzer family) and the wider Cayzer family could easily be put in a position which would trigger a requirement for them to make an offer for the entire company. OTOH the big Cayzer holding gives ne comfort because they take a long term view of matters.

I have held this Trust for upwards of 20 years.

Dod

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Re: Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#217790

Postby richfool » April 27th, 2019, 8:47 pm

Aminatidi wrote:My current ISA looks like this:

25% Capital Gearing Trust
25% Fundsmith
25% Lindsell Train Global Equity
25% Finsbury Growth Trust

I'm comfortable with my direct equity exposure but don't want to add any more.

I've got around 20% to add with some transfers and allowances.

One option is to just add more Capital Gearing Trust as it's a safe reliable option that has some interesting allocations outside the "usual" passive multi-assets.

I was contemplating RIT Capital but the premium is off-putting though I am watching the thread on this forum.

Personal Assets is glacial and a little too perma-bear ish to the point where I'd probably just stay in cash.

Thoughts welcome :)

Here is a link to the Flexible Sector of IT's. Some trusts in that sector, like PNL and CGT are more defensive, others tend to invest in the broader range of asset classes:

https://citywire.co.uk/funds_insider/in ... ePeriod=12

I am aware that SIGT - Seneca Income Growth trust has recently moved to a more defensive position in readiness for the next correction.

I hold SIGT and MATE (JP Morgan Multi Asset trust).

StOmer
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Re: Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#217840

Postby StOmer » April 28th, 2019, 8:55 am

It is important to be a little cautious with the Flexible AIC sector imho, eg. RIT Capital Partners and Caledonia are recent entrants having moved from the Global sector to Flexible, neither is anything like Capital Gearing, Personal Assets etc. Hence when looking at this sector I place less emphasis on how each IT compares to the others in terms of performance.

Miton Global Opps. was chosen by Money Observer this month as their annual Winner from the Flexible Sector, it is an interesting fund run by Nick Greenwood, investing in a variety of IT's on decent discounts. I think one aim of the fund is to take advantage of those discounts so it may not be what you are looking for. Interestingly it was Hansa IT that got the second spot this year, a trust that is often highlighted on the Citywire boards by one poster as worth looking at.

Aminatidi
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Re: Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#217841

Postby Aminatidi » April 28th, 2019, 9:01 am

Thank you, Miton Global Opportunities is one I have an eye on as I hear Nick Greenwood has a good reputation.

I think when I use the word "flexible" I don't necessarily mean I'm limiting myself to only IT's (or OEICs) in the AIC's strict "Flexible" category, more that I don't want something that is 100% equities as I'm happy with my exposure to those.

As I said the easy option is just to go load up with more Capital Gearing Trust as it won't make me poor.

I should add I have a good 15-20 years regular contributions ahead of me before retirement so whilst I'm sure some will say "100% equities" we all have our attitudes toward risk and exposure as per my other threads.

Dod101
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Re: Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#217849

Postby Dod101 » April 28th, 2019, 9:46 am

So does the AIC mean that Flexible Trusts have no particular mandate, or that they can change it when they like or what?

Dod

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Re: Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#217876

Postby mc2fool » April 28th, 2019, 11:13 am

Dod101 wrote:So does the AIC mean that Flexible Trusts have no particular mandate, or that they can change it when they like or what?

What the AIC means is a good question and unless I'm missing it I haven't been able to find a definition of the AIC sectors on the AIC site that one can easily click through to. "Sector" isn't even in their glossary!

What I did find is that if you go to the Overview page of a company, e.g. CGT, and hover the mouse over the sector name you get a popup ("tooltip") briefly describing the sector, which for Flexible Investment is "Companies whose policy allows them to invest in a range of asset types." That's it.

Using the AIC site's search facility didn't help, however using Google to search within the AIC site for Flexible Investment did bring up some useful results, including:

"...the Flexible Investment sector launched at the beginning of 2016 by the Association of Investment Companies may look increasingly appealing. It contains a diverse bunch of funds but all of them adhere to the principle that the manager has the freedom to invest in a range of different types of assets – equities and bonds, yes, but also everything from infrastructure to unconventional debt instruments, and sometimes even cash. ... It’s difficult to generalise about flexible investment companies; the funds in the sector are inevitably so different that comparisons are meaningless ... " https://www.theaic.co.uk/financial-advisers/blog/david-prosser/flexible-investment

It also found https://www.theaic.co.uk/sites/default/files/hidden-files/AICSectorDefinitionsJan18.pdf which has a list of definitions for all the sectors, however the one for Flexible Investment is just the brief sentence above, and in any case I can't find where the PDF is linked to from within the AIC site, so it really does seem to be a "hidden" file as far as they're concerned.

I did also find https://www.theaic.co.uk/aic/news/press-releases/navigating-choppier-waters which may be of general interest to this thread, as it has some commentary from the managers of Ruffer, Seneca Global Income & Growth, Capital Gearing and JPMorgan Multi-Asset.

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Re: Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#217901

Postby Dod101 » April 28th, 2019, 12:32 pm

Thanks Mc2fool. Many of these sectors into which investment companies are placed seem to be about as useful as the general sectors of the FTSE. I tend not to bother about the FTSE sectors and am equally indifferent to the sectors for ITs. Much better I think to go to the individual trust, see what it is doing, the commentary, its investment portfolio and decide from there.

However, Alliance for instance would have/should have been in the Flexible sector but is now firmly a worldwide equity investor, having sold almost all of its private equity, directly held property and now ATS and its mineral rights. It will certainly simplify its running and it is arguable whether the other assets actually added much. But I do not think much of the term Flexible, Multi Asset for instance might be better. In fact equity investor or multi asset investor are surely the two broad areas, and then break them down geographically or whatever.

Sorry, this is off the original topic but is surely relevant to it. See what these Mods have done? Given me, at least, a guilty conscience.

Dod

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Re: Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#218190

Postby richfool » April 29th, 2019, 4:34 pm

richfool wrote:
Aminatidi wrote:My current ISA looks like this:

25% Capital Gearing Trust
25% Fundsmith
25% Lindsell Train Global Equity
25% Finsbury Growth Trust

I'm comfortable with my direct equity exposure but don't want to add any more.

I've got around 20% to add with some transfers and allowances.

One option is to just add more Capital Gearing Trust as it's a safe reliable option that has some interesting allocations outside the "usual" passive multi-assets.

I was contemplating RIT Capital but the premium is off-putting though I am watching the thread on this forum.

Personal Assets is glacial and a little too perma-bear ish to the point where I'd probably just stay in cash.

Thoughts welcome :)

Here is a link to the Flexible Sector of IT's. Some trusts in that sector, like PNL and CGT are more defensive, others tend to invest in the broader range of asset classes:

https://citywire.co.uk/funds_insider/in ... ePeriod=12

I am aware that SIGT - Seneca Income Growth trust has recently moved to a more defensive position in readiness for the next correction.

I hold SIGT and MATE (JP Morgan Multi Asset trust).

Aminatidi, you may be interested in the topic link below, about SIGT (in the Flexible sector) which is reducing its equity holdings as it moves to a more defensive position:

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=17443

Aminatidi
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Re: Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#218224

Postby Aminatidi » April 29th, 2019, 5:49 pm

richfool wrote:Aminatidi, you may be interested in the topic link below, about SIGT (in the Flexible sector) which is reducing its equity holdings as it moves to a more defensive position:

viewtopic.php?f=54&t=17443


Yes I saw that article a few days ago :)

I don't know if I'm guilty of "big name bias" but I don't know if I think I know enough about SIGT to put a sizeable chunk in it.

If it's a lesser chunk then we're into how simple I want to keep things.

DavidM13
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Re: Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#221725

Postby DavidM13 » May 15th, 2019, 9:35 am

mc2fool wrote:
Dod101 wrote:So does the AIC mean that Flexible Trusts have no particular mandate, or that they can change it when they like or what?

What the AIC means is a good question and unless I'm missing it I haven't been able to find a definition of the AIC sectors on the AIC site that one can easily click through to. "Sector" isn't even in their glossary!

What I did find is that if you go to the Overview page of a company, e.g. CGT, and hover the mouse over the sector name you get a popup ("tooltip") briefly describing the sector, which for Flexible Investment is "Companies whose policy allows them to invest in a range of asset types." That's it.

Using the AIC site's search facility didn't help, however using Google to search within the AIC site for Flexible Investment did bring up some useful results, including:

"...the Flexible Investment sector launched at the beginning of 2016 by the Association of Investment Companies may look increasingly appealing. It contains a diverse bunch of funds but all of them adhere to the principle that the manager has the freedom to invest in a range of different types of assets – equities and bonds, yes, but also everything from infrastructure to unconventional debt instruments, and sometimes even cash. ... It’s difficult to generalise about flexible investment companies; the funds in the sector are inevitably so different that comparisons are meaningless ... " https://www.theaic.co.uk/financial-advisers/blog/david-prosser/flexible-investment

It also found https://www.theaic.co.uk/sites/default/files/hidden-files/AICSectorDefinitionsJan18.pdf which has a list of definitions for all the sectors, however the one for Flexible Investment is just the brief sentence above, and in any case I can't find where the PDF is linked to from within the AIC site, so it really does seem to be a "hidden" file as far as they're concerned.

I did also find https://www.theaic.co.uk/aic/news/press-releases/navigating-choppier-waters which may be of general interest to this thread, as it has some commentary from the managers of Ruffer, Seneca Global Income & Growth, Capital Gearing and JPMorgan Multi-Asset.


Hi mc2Fool. We will be making the sector descriptions and constituents much more prominent on the AIC website on May 28th. You will find it under the “Statistics” tab after this date. This is after a full sector review which we have carried out over the last year or so. A sneak preview is available here https://www.theaic.co.uk/aic/statistics/aic-sectors

https://www.investmentweek.co.uk/invest ... _RL.EU.A.U

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Re: Flexible IT's that aren't Capital Gearing or RIT Capital?

#221734

Postby mc2fool » May 15th, 2019, 9:55 am

DavidM13 wrote:We will be making the sector descriptions and constituents much more prominent on the AIC website on May 28th. You will find it under the “Statistics” tab after this date. This is after a full sector review which we have carried out over the last year or so. A sneak preview is available here https://www.theaic.co.uk/aic/statistics/aic-sectors

Good stuff, looks good at first glance, will study further later ... :D


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