Normal Market Size for Investment Trusts?

[feder1]

I have tried to find this out on the London Stock Exchange site with no success. DAK where please?

Also do ETFs have NMSs please?

[Dod101]

I have tried to find this out on the London Stock Exchange site with no success. DAK where please?

Also do ETFs have NMSs please?

What do you mean by Normal Market Size? Since you use capitals I assume this is an official term? NMS of what? The trust assets or dealings in the shares or what? I am being very ignorant about this and everyone else may know the answers so you and I will then both learn something.

Dod

[DavidM13]

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/no ... tsize.asp#

[doug2500]

Just looked on Stockopedia and they quote EMS (Exchange Market Size?) of 5000 for CTY so it must be a thing, and is probably quoted elsewhere too.

[Alaric]

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/n/normalmarketsize.asp#

That looks like an American definition.

A Google search for a London defintion came up with this.

On the London Stock Exchange, normal market size (NMS) for each security is calculated quarterly and is based on 2.5 per cent of the security's average daily turnover in the preceding year.

[Hallucigenia]

I have tried to find this out on the London Stock Exchange site with no success. DAK where please?

Also do ETFs have NMSs please?

Even for normal shares it was always kinda tricky to track down NMS. I had a vague feeling that it used to be a column on the big spreadsheet on the LSE website but skimming through some of my old files it looks like I used to get it from somewhere else (scraped from Hemscott maybe?).

You can get bid/ask size from Yahoo if that helps at all.

Also - NMS is now EMS, Exchange Market Size.

I think all ETFs are traded on SETS rather than SETSqx so the concept of NMS/EMS doesn't apply, but I could be wrong.

[monabri]

Without wishing to be rude , now we know, what do we do with such information? (Of what use is this to the retail investor?).

[feder1]

Monabri:

If I wish to buy £3000 of xyz I.T and the NMS only only allows me tobuy £2000 worth of it, then I am very aggravated!

[scrumpyjack]

Monabri:

If I wish to buy £3000 of xyz I.T and the NMS only only allows me tobuy £2000 worth of it, then I am very aggravated!

The online systems, like HL, tend to give you wider spreads when you try to deal in larger quantities. I have often found in better to put through several small orders instead of one larger one.

[Dod101]

Without wishing to be rude , now we know, what do we do with such information? (Of what use is this to the retail investor?).

I was about to ask the same question. I can probably live without having an exhaustive answer. And in general, if you are a LTBH investor, I cannot see that a marginal difference in price is going to make a huge difference to my long term wealth.

Maybe feder can explain.

Dod

[Hallucigenia]

Monabri:

If I wish to buy £3000 of xyz I.T and the NMS only only allows me tobuy £2000 worth of it, then I am very aggravated!

Although that's not exactly what an NMS means - it is merely the size in which the marketmaker is guaranteed to deal at the quoted prices. In reality, you may be able to buy or sell many multiples of NMS at or even inside the quoted prices, it just depends on where the market is.

But you will usually find marketmakers more than happy to sell you £3k of xyz, you just may have to pay a higher price for the larger size. That's just a market doing its thing - it happens all the time for institutions wanting to buy in bigger chunks.

[monabri]

Monabri:

If I wish to buy £3000 of xyz I.T and the NMS only only allows me tobuy £2000 worth of it, then I am very aggravated!

Thanks for the reply. I guess that the actual ITs that one would then be considering are not your well traded, fluid trusts such as CTY, EDIN, SMT?

[Dod101]

Monabri:

If I wish to buy £3000 of xyz I.T and the NMS only only allows me tobuy £2000 worth of it, then I am very aggravated!

I assume that you are normally upset then? You are very aggravated....hmm... more than what? I would suggest that 'upset' would be a better word than aggravated.

To the point though. I would think if you are intending to buy any of the larger (say £6/700,000) Investment trusts, the liquidity would be such that for most retail investors there would be no problem in buying at the quoted price. After all, there are no 'Board Lots' on the LSE, that I know of anyway.

Dod

[Hallucigenia]

I have tried to find this out on the London Stock Exchange site with no success. DAK where please?

Got it. See the spreadsheets in the middle of https://www.londonstockexchange.com/tra ... ading/sets
(currently https://docs.londonstockexchange.com/si ... es_110.xls but I suspect the number changes each week)

and at the bottom of https://www.londonstockexchange.com/tra ... x-and-seaq :
https://docs.londonstockexchange.com/si ... es_109.xls
https://docs.londonstockexchange.com/si ... es_109.xls

So for instance looking at some that have been mentioned on the boards, the SETS-traded Scottish Mortgage has an EMS of 2000 (currently £14k), whereas the SETSqx-traded Pembroke VCT has an EMS of ... 1 (£1.15). I don't think I've ever seen an NMS/EMS of 1 before! It's essentially saying that nobody wants to make a real market in it and you're at the whim of the marketmakers.

[feder1]

Thanks everyone.