The Lemon Fool

Lootman wrote:Whether or how much you have subscribed to your ISA in the tax year is surely irrelevant?

The question was about buying certificates and then having them added 'to your holding in the tax sheltered account providing you had enough head room on that years subscription allowance'.

Best wishes

Mark.

ADrunkenMarcus wrote:

Lootman wrote:Whether or how much you have subscribed to your ISA in the tax year is surely irrelevant?

The question was about buying certificates and then having them added 'to your holding in the tax sheltered account providing you had enough head room on that years subscription allowance'.

I do not understand why anyone would want to "buy a certificate".

If your broker doesn't offer IPOs then you have the wrong broker.

scotia wrote:Hargreaves Lansdown have emailed their clients concerning the Smithson IT, indicating "You will be able to invest with HL. Applications will open soon". They have included a "Register My Interest" button.

HL seem inconsistent. They offer, and occasionally even promote, subscribing to some flotations and launches in their tax shelters. I've done that several times: indeed, my entire Renewables Infrastructure sector holdings (TRIG and JLEN, one in each of the ISA and SIPP) were built in new subscriptions. But in other cases (e.g. the SSP IPO) they don't, and charge a high fee if you ask to bid. Or in the worst case, where I asked about investing in a Swedish company's IPO on the Frankfurt market, they wouldn't do it at all, though I can of course trade it now it's listed.

Thank you for the responses so far.
Perhaps unsurprisingly Smithson looks like being rather more mid-cap than small-cap, with its implied average market cap of about £7bn.
Out of interest I E-mailed Baillie Gifford for a more detailed breakdown of the market caps for the Edinburgh Worldwide and Shin Nippon portfolios.
Here is my very rough summary of the material I was sent, data as at 30th June 2018.

Edinburgh Worldwide had 89 holdings ranging in size from GI Dynamics (£12m) to Tesla (£44bn).
The average market cap was £2.93bn (£2.46bn excl. Tesla). 21 of the holdings had a market cap of less than £250m; 7 of these being less than £76m.

Shin Nippon had 71 holdings ranging from Morpho Inc. (£108m) to M3 Inc (£9.8bn). The average market cap was £1.57bn. 13 of Shin Nippon’s holdings had a market cap of less than £250m.

I suppose EWI and BGS are among the closest one can get to the investment vehicle I’d like to exist but is probably too research-intensive to be viable: a micro-cap/smaller companies trust with a global remit? Any other suggestions?

Lootman wrote:[I do not understand why anyone would want to "buy a certificate"..

Well some might want to 'buy a certificate' because it gets round any question of the problems with nominees. You may remember that before SIPPs, ISAs, PEPS and so on that was the only way to go. In fact I still hold quite a number of certificated holdings. I grant you that they are expensive to trade nowadays but I am sure you know perfectly well why one might want a certificate. I agree though that on the whole it is better to trade via a so called Trading Account or some other form of nominee and I should imagine most brokers will offer Smithson at the IPO.

Dod

I am hoping that one of my broking/nominee accounts will allow a direct purchase into an ISA but we'll see. I have not seen a launch date mentioned yet?

Dod

From the smithson web site:

Publication of the Prospectus 17th September 2018
Offer for Subscription and Intermediaries Offer Close 12th October 2018
Initial Placing Close 16th October 2018
Admission of and dealings in Ordinary Shares 19th October 2018

HL and AJ Bell platforms have both said they'll offer the Smithson IT too. You just need to register interest in IPO's.

FredBloggs wrote:

Dod101 wrote:

Lootman wrote:I do not understand why anyone would want to "buy a certificate"..

Well some might want to 'buy a certificate' because it gets round any question of the problems with nominees. You may remember that before SIPPs, ISAs, PEPS and so on that was the only way to go. In fact I still hold quite a number of certificated holdings. I grant you that they are expensive to trade nowadays but I am sure you know perfectly well why one might want a certificate. I agree though that on the whole it is better to trade via a so called Trading Account or some other form of nominee and I should imagine most brokers will offer Smithson at the IPO.

You are correct, when I asked the question, it was because I last IPO'd at the launch of PIGIT. Back then, you got a certificate delivered by post. You then had a certain time to send the certificate off and have it added to your tax sheltered vehicle (then it was a PEP). I asked if that was still possible. Say I bought Smithson at HL but I wanted them in my ISA. It is not clear if II will participate in the launch of this new IT. Therefore, I would have to use my old HL account to buy but I want them in my II ISA. So, the modern way of doing what I last did way back with PIGIT. It still allowed with ISA or SIPP?

I can understand why someone might want a certified holding. But since those are not possible within an ISA, I still cannot see why anyone would want to apply for a certified holding and then immediately transfer that to an ISA. Surely EITHER you keep the certificate and have it as a taxable holding OR you want it for an ISA in which case you would just apply to buy the IPO from within your ISA, first making sure there is sufficient cash in it.

Haven't PEPs and ISAs always been nominee holdings only?

Lootman wrote:Haven't PEPs and ISAs always been nominee holdings only?

As far as I know that is the case. I will be applying via my ISA provider and so place it directly into my ISA, provided that is that my ISA provider (where I have spare cash) is participating in the IPO.

Dod

The prospectus is being unleashed today.

Best wishes

Mark.

The same was true for ATS.

Best wishes

Mark.

ATS have added them now.

Best wishes

Mark.

Have you written to them to ask? It would be pretty poor if a major broker could not enable you to participate in the IPO.

Best wishes

Mark.

I have just applied via ATS. It seems to have worked like clockwork. I also have an account with II but having read the above I did not even try.

I would imagine it will be very popular so I hope I do not get scaled back.

Dod

There was some mention about feeding 'C' shares into the market after IPO.

In their presentation on their website, they identified particular companies in their investable universe which I already hold directly or was looking at: Domino's Pizza (2010); Diploma (2012); Spirax Sarco Engineering (2015); Fevertree (2017) and Rollins (watching). If I don't get as many shares in Smithson as I'd like, then I might start scouring their top holdings over time looking for ideas for direct long-term buy and hold dividend growth purchases.

Best wishes

Mark.

FredBloggs wrote:I am expecting early closure. Less fuss and work for them than a scale down, IMO.

From a selfish point of view, I'm fine with that as I applied as soon as I could and only the day after the prospectus was released.

If you have not yet seen the Smithson Investment Trust IPO Presentation on their website, I'd recommend looking at it.

Best wishes

Mark.

Successfully applied on HL website inside SIPP, no issues.

Now shows under Pending Orders Page, status Pending...

Now wondering what chances are of receiving my full application amount ( 0.25% of the £250m shares on offer! ), or being scaled back. However noted in the prospectus Fundsmith reserve the right to increase shares offered to £350m.

Will update once allocated...

FredBloggs wrote:I have tried repeatedly to buy Smithson IPO at II.

It was open at ii this morning (Wed 19th Sep)

portf wrote:
Now wondering what chances are of receiving my full application amount ( 0.25% of the £250m shares on offer! ), or being scaled back.

I am applying for rather less than that.

Dod