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Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

Closed-end funds and OEICs
Aminatidi
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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#249937

Postby Aminatidi » September 6th, 2019, 3:56 pm

I also noticed they now show a small amount of property in the portfolio.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#323697

Postby Aminatidi » July 4th, 2020, 12:25 pm

So as not to hijack another thread....

Any views on pros and cons v Capital Gearing Trust?

I hold both in roughly equal quantities and both are around 40-45% of my portfolio.

This seemed a timely reminder as I've just been watching the CGT annual report presentation.

I tend to have a simplistic outlook which is that PNL and CGT seem places that I could happily park all of my "cautious" investments but I don't know many people who have all their investment risk with one style or manager (company or individual).

I notice PNL have been ramping up equity exposure and again in my simplistic view I trend to think of CGT as a team of people trying to hunt out overlooked investment opportunities whilst I think of PNL as more of a "cautious Fundsmith" with the style of companies it seems to hold.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#323714

Postby richfool » July 4th, 2020, 1:53 pm

I noticed that Ruffer had jumped up the performance tables (from virtually nowhere) as a result of some tactical investing around the start of the Covid 19 disruption. Though that may well be just a one-off spurt. Of the three I have tended to favour PNL, which I believe has, or had, the highest proportion in government stocks and US TIPS of the three. I did note that PNL had added Alphabet to its top ten holdings.

Otherwise, currently, I don't hold any of those three. I feel they tend to spend too long out in the wild, waiting for the occasional heavy storms. (Apart from topping up a few trusts and adding some global growth technology trusts), I have a gold miner (Polymetal), some renewables, and a small amount of dividend cash awaiting further opportunities.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#323833

Postby Aminatidi » July 5th, 2020, 10:13 am

richfool wrote:I noticed that Ruffer had jumped up the performance tables (from virtually nowhere) as a result of some tactical investing around the start of the Covid 19 disruption. Though that may well be just a one-off spurt. Of the three I have tended to favour PNL, which I believe has, or had, the highest proportion in government stocks and US TIPS of the three. I did note that PNL had added Alphabet to its top ten holdings.

Otherwise, currently, I don't hold any of those three. I feel they tend to spend too long out in the wild, waiting for the occasional heavy storms. (Apart from topping up a few trusts and adding some global growth technology trusts), I have a gold miner (Polymetal), some renewables, and a small amount of dividend cash awaiting further opportunities.


Yes I always wonder with Ruffer if they're being a bit too clever and what the cost of all those options and protections is on the portfolio.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#348586

Postby Aminatidi » October 18th, 2020, 9:51 am

Small update for anyone interested.

I'm settled for now on approx:

42.5% PNL
42.5% CGT
7.5% SMT
7.5% USA

Recently switched from Mid Wynd to SMT having persuaded myself that there's no benefit to all that defence without a serious attack from that 15%.

Whilst you can't buy past returns this was an eye opener on the difference a "small" amount of "shoot the lights out" performance can make.

£100K a year ago.

Image

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#348589

Postby Lootman » October 18th, 2020, 10:19 am

Aminatidi wrote:Image

Out of curiosity presumably your broker allows you to hold fractional shares of investment trusts?

I can see the use of that for an IT with a very high unit share price. Yet the one IT that you hold which has that is PNL, and there you hold a round lot!

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#348604

Postby Aminatidi » October 18th, 2020, 11:36 am

No it's a quirk of Trustnet that you can do virtual portfolios based on an amount of £ and it'll show that way.

Though I believe some UK brokers are now offering fractional shares.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#348629

Postby richfool » October 18th, 2020, 12:36 pm

I would think if one was investing in PNL, CGT or RICA for wealth protection/defensive or whatever purposes, one would be buying more than half a share, even if the SP was £457. I think one would aim to hold a few more than that, or it would defeat the purpose of investing in that particular trust.

Aminatidi, If you are suggesting using SMT and USA as your only other investments (contrasting with PNL, CGT & RICA and targetted at outright growth), that would IMHO be more than a little risky. Surely you should be spreading the risk and investments over a wider area than that? You have no little or no Asia Pacific exposure in there, or UK or Europe for that matter, apart from whatever SMT and the defensives embrace, and you are exposed to the strong convictions of Baillie Gifford (on the growth side of the spectrum). It is possible they may get things wrong. Whilst I do invest in both those trusts (SMT and USA [and also Monks], I hold a much wider range of other trusts with differing objectives and exposure to other sectors and a wider range of geographies.

I have stuck with Mid Wynd, even though I can see the performance comparison you refer to, as compared to SMT or even Monks, but/because of the diversity of management & their respective convictions, investment philosophies and variety of sectorial exposure.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#351306

Postby richfool » October 28th, 2020, 11:56 am

Personal Assets quarterly report - Oct 2020:

https://www.patplc.co.uk/sites/default/ ... 202020.pdf

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#352045

Postby shetland » October 30th, 2020, 10:21 pm

Interesting that the benchmark is the FTSE all share index when the UK only accounts for 20% of the assets. Still, it was probably the only benchmark they could beat

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#352046

Postby Lootman » October 30th, 2020, 10:24 pm

shetland wrote:Interesting that the benchmark is the FTSE all share index when the UK only accounts for 20% of the assets. Still, it was probably the only benchmark they could beat

Yeah, and the FTSE-100 returning 6% in 5 years (and below its level of 21 years ago) is beyond pathetic. I would benchmark all generalist funds against the global equity index, because the UK market has been useless for longer than I can remember.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#352218

Postby toofast2live » October 31st, 2020, 2:09 pm

Given the remit of PAT it’s benchmark ought to be uk inflation. It’s primary objective is to “preserve” wealth.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#352600

Postby Wuffle » November 2nd, 2020, 10:41 am

The Capital Gearing quarterly report is out.
Always a good read and possibly helpful in the context of this thread.

W.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#358345

Postby richfool » November 20th, 2020, 11:01 am

Personal Assets Half Yearly Report:
Over the six months to 31 October 2020 PAT's net asset value per share ("NAV") rose by 2.9% to £438.67. PAT's share price rose by £7.00 to £440.00 over the same period, being a premium of 0.3% to the Company's NAV at that date.

Portfolio activity was very modest during the half year following the high activity of February and March, when we raised the Trust's equity exposure materially. We sold the Trust's investment in Coca-Cola, held since 2009, during the period due to what we believed to be persistent headwinds to volume growth over the long term. Carbonated soft drinks face a number of challenges, not least the environmental scrutiny faced by their packaging and a secular shift in consumer preferences towards healthier alternatives. Added to this is the more immediate threat to its cash flows from Coke's out-of-home consumption. We have concerns over balance sheet strength, free cash flow generation and the valuation. We also sold the residual holding in AG Barr. We acquired a holding in Becton Dickinson. Becton is a wonderfully diversified portfolio of small-ticket, repeat purchase items that are indispensable to healthcare globally. The opportunity to improve outcomes by bringing digital capabilities to bear on Becton's portfolio is one that appears as yet underappreciated but which the new CEO understands and articulates well. Growth in sales is underpinned by Becton's unrivalled competitive position and the increasing demand for medical devices in both developed markets with aging populations and developing markets where the provision of healthcare is becoming more sophisticated. The shares were acquired at an attractive valuation following a prolonged period of dull performance.

Dividends are paid in July, October, January and April of each year. The first interim dividend of £1.40 per Ordinary share was paid to shareholders on 17 July 2020 and the second interim dividend of £1.40 was paid on 9 October 2020. A third interim dividend of £1.40 per Ordinary share will be paid to shareholders on 8 January 2021 and a fourth interim dividend of £1.40 per Ordinary share is expected to be paid in April 2021, making a total for the year of £5.60 per Ordinary share.

https://www.investegate.co.uk/personal- ... 00039459F/

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#358994

Postby Aminatidi » November 22nd, 2020, 12:26 pm

If I wanted to deploy around £10K so around 5% into one of

* PNL
* CGT
* RICA

Pretty much right away and given the existing allocations does anyone have any thoughts on which and why right now?

I find myself debating a 50/50 between adding more PNL and CGT v opening a small position in RICA as right now things feel uncertain enough that I don't see much downside in doing so.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#359021

Postby richfool » November 22nd, 2020, 2:51 pm

Aminatidi wrote:If I wanted to deploy around £10K so around 5% into one of

* PNL
* CGT
* RICA

Pretty much right away and given the existing allocations does anyone have any thoughts on which and why right now?

I find myself debating a 50/50 between adding more PNL and CGT v opening a small position in RICA as right now things feel uncertain enough that I don't see much downside in doing so.

I do currently have a modest position in PNL, and have held it (or CGT) from time to time in the past. However, what usually happens is that after sitting there for a period of time, with me watching it going nowhere and the market going up around it, I get frustrated and start thinking about what I could be achieving with those funds if I redeployed them elsewhere in the market. Or, I come across another investment situation that I would like to take advantage of and don't have the funds available to do so. Thus I end up selling PNL and redeploying the funds. :roll:

Currently, I am resisting do that, because I want to see how the QE etc plays out once Biden takes office, and what happens to markets and inflation from there.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#359032

Postby Aminatidi » November 22nd, 2020, 3:39 pm

richfool wrote:I do currently have a modest position in PNL, and have held it (or CGT) from time to time in the past. However, what usually happens is that after sitting there for a period of time, with me watching it going nowhere and the market going up around it, I get frustrated and start thinking about what I could be achieving with those funds if I redeployed them elsewhere in the market. Or, I come across another investment situation that I would like to take advantage of and don't have the funds available to do so. Thus I end up selling PNL and redeploying the funds. :roll:

Currently, I am resisting do that, because I want to see how the QE etc plays out once Biden takes office, and what happens to markets and inflation from there.


Yes I tend to hold them precisely because I don't think I can time those situations so well.

I'm curious whether I've misunderstood the sentence I highlighted.

Do you mean you're holding onto the PNL position to see what happens in case it's best positioned to take advantage of a shift in markets?

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#359039

Postby richfool » November 22nd, 2020, 4:39 pm

Aminatidi wrote:
richfool wrote:I do currently have a modest position in PNL, and have held it (or CGT) from time to time in the past. However, what usually happens is that after sitting there for a period of time, with me watching it going nowhere and the market going up around it, I get frustrated and start thinking about what I could be achieving with those funds if I redeployed them elsewhere in the market. Or, I come across another investment situation that I would like to take advantage of and don't have the funds available to do so. Thus I end up selling PNL and redeploying the funds. :roll:

Currently, I am resisting do that, because I want to see how the QE etc plays out once Biden takes office, and what happens to markets and inflation from there.


Yes I tend to hold them precisely because I don't think I can time those situations so well.

I'm curious whether I've misunderstood the sentence I highlighted.

Do you mean you're holding onto the PNL position to see what happens in case it's best positioned to take advantage of a shift in markets?

Sorry, that "do" should have read "doing",- meaning, yes, I am currently resisting the temptation to sell and redeploy the funds because I am concerned that further QE will at some point generate inflation and/or there will be an adverse shift in markets, and that PNL may be better positioned/able to cope with that.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#359040

Postby Aminatidi » November 22nd, 2020, 4:42 pm

Sorry I wasn't being a pedant on the "do" I literally didn't quite get what you meant.

Thanks for clarifying.

I think it's easy for people to think the only way is equities when as you say it's more "preserve and grow" than risk in the hope it will grow IYSWIM.

I tend to think of the PNL/RICA/CGT type funds as places where I'd be pretty happy storing an unlimited amount of money albeit with a dedicated percentage of my investments dedicated to chasing racier outright growth.

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Re: Personal Assets v Capital Gearing v RICA?

#360154

Postby SoBo65 » November 26th, 2020, 8:37 am

As a slight deviation to the subject, I see the new version of the Personal Assets website no longer contains the monthly portfolio listing nor the back issues of the Quarterlies. Surely an oversight?


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