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Caledonia

Closed-end funds and OEICs
Itsallaguess
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Re: Caledonia

#205725

Postby Itsallaguess » March 5th, 2019, 5:01 pm

Dod101 wrote:


This (I hope) is the table I was trying to produce.

If this is fine many thanks to Itsallaguess and his patience!


Looks good Dod, so thanks for persevering with it and also letting me know in the best way possible (by posting an actual table!) that the video was helpful.

I've been meaning to do one for a while now, given that we get a few queries like this, so your struggle was a good reason to actually get round to producing one, and I'm very glad to see that it works...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

MusingMarket
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Re: Caledonia

#211142

Postby MusingMarket » March 28th, 2019, 6:58 pm

Caledonia did pay a 100p special dividend in August 2017 and paid out the 2016 final dividend (technically 2nd interim) 5 months early so that helps boost returns when compared to just looking at share price and normal dividends.

Caledonia is far from a perfect trust and seems to have been struggling to perform against the sector bias of its holding for the past decade. The previous manager (Tim Ingram) saw the great recession coming, had FTSE put options as one of his biggest holdings, yet the performance was still rather turgid coming out of the great recession thanks to a focus on real estate (e.g. Quintain!). More recently performance has been stifled thanks to the UK focused private equity bias that of course hasn't been helped by Brexit uncertainty.

Looking at the five year performance today there's a big difference between NAV (+55%) and share price return (+75%). It shows buying a moderately performing IT on a discount in the 20s can do well (I tell that to myself every time I look at my Hansa Trust holding!) Given the lack of discount control available to the Caledonia board that performance could flip but I'm not too concerned holding at a 15% discount to NAV for a largely liquid portfolio plus private equity which is about as understandable as you can get (Cornish pubs, Lens manufacturers, Bingo Halls, etc.).

Steveam
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Re: Caledonia

#225135

Postby Steveam » May 29th, 2019, 9:09 am

Finals here: https://www.caledonia.com/rns/view/id/1678

Final dividend 43.2p (+4%) payable 8/August.

Best wishes,

Steve

Dod101
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Re: Caledonia

#225166

Postby Dod101 » May 29th, 2019, 10:03 am

Thanks Steve. Excellent results and it is great to see that even their Income Pool increased its NAV.

It has a most unusual collection of investments but seems to be able to make money by investing, developing the investment and then selling at a profit all without any borrowings, and a decent increase in the dividend to boot.

Dod

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Re: Caledonia

#231322

Postby Dod101 » June 21st, 2019, 11:00 pm

Just gone through the Annual Report. As was said earlier, a good set of results and I must say I like their policy of finding new well connected directors. Mrs Fitzalan Howard is a case in point. She appears to be from the Schroder family but is now married into the aristocracy with a very good pedigree, and plenty of good work experience which will no doubt have provided good financial connections. Follow the money!

I have never attended a Caledonia AGM but might just do so this year. 24 July at Buckingham Gate. Could be interesting.

Meanwhile, the longest day, and I sit here at 11 pm in not exactly broad daylight but certainly not dark.

Dod

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Re: Caledonia

#267218

Postby Steveam » November 26th, 2019, 7:51 am

The directors have declared an interim dividend for the year ending 31 March 2020 of 16.6p per share, totalling £9.1m, which has not been included as a liability in this condensed set of financial statements. This dividend will be payable on 9 January 2020 to holders of shares on the register on 6 December 2019. The ex-dividend date will be 5 December 2019.

https://www.investegate.co.uk/caledonia ... 00126113U/

Best wishes,

Steve

Dod101
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Re: Caledonia

#267220

Postby Dod101 » November 26th, 2019, 8:00 am

Steveam wrote:The directors have declared an interim dividend for the year ending 31 March 2020 of 16.6p per share, totalling £9.1m, which has not been included as a liability in this condensed set of financial statements. This dividend will be payable on 9 January 2020 to holders of shares on the register on 6 December 2019. The ex-dividend date will be 5 December 2019.

https://www.investegate.co.uk/caledonia ... 00126113U/

Best wishes,


Thanks for that but of course there is much more to Caledonia than the dividend. It is not an income trust. Seems to me these are typically good results from this conservative, family run IT. NAV is up, they have no borrowings and of course the dividend is up again.

An IT for all seasons.

Dod

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Re: Caledonia

#267249

Postby OLTB » November 26th, 2019, 9:39 am

Dod101 wrote:
Steveam wrote:The directors have declared an interim dividend for the year ending 31 March 2020 of 16.6p per share, totalling £9.1m, which has not been included as a liability in this condensed set of financial statements. This dividend will be payable on 9 January 2020 to holders of shares on the register on 6 December 2019. The ex-dividend date will be 5 December 2019.

https://www.investegate.co.uk/caledonia ... 00126113U/

Best wishes,


Thanks for that but of course there is much more to Caledonia than the dividend. It is not an income trust. Seems to me these are typically good results from this conservative, family run IT. NAV is up, they have no borrowings and of course the dividend is up again.

An IT for all seasons.

Dod


Yes, I invested in Caledonia last year, to sit alongside the Bankers IT and happy with progress. It is there for longer term growth for use during my retirement and is a slight hedge against the HYP going wonky.

Cheers, OLTB.

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Re: Caledonia

#267253

Postby scrumpyjack » November 26th, 2019, 9:51 am

I added to my holding this morning. It is a solid long term investment and I like the exposure to unlisted stocks (67%) as a counterbalance.

It may be the large unlisted element in the portfolio that accounts for the high discount to NAV (nearly 20%). I see that they are looking at reducing that a little.

Obviously not a fashionable share in the city with that level of discount.

Dod101
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Re: Caledonia

#267266

Postby Dod101 » November 26th, 2019, 10:33 am

scrumpyjack wrote:I added to my holding this morning. It is a solid long term investment and I like the exposure to unlisted stocks (67%) as a counterbalance.

It may be the large unlisted element in the portfolio that accounts for the high discount to NAV (nearly 20%). I see that they are looking at reducing that a little.

Obviously not a fashionable share in the city with that level of discount.


I do not think it is fashionable mainly I suspect because of the very large holding of the Cayzer family which controls it. The outside shareholders need to go along with whatever they want and do. There is no chance of buying in a meaningful amount of the shares because that would take the Cayzer holding to a level where they would be obliged to make a full offer. The City does not like this sort of 'closed shop'.

I bought it in 1992 at £3.48. It has had no rights issues or any thing else in that time so I can compare that price directly with its price today of just over £30. It is a forever share for me. The dividend steadily increases and it has an occasional 'special' to help things along.

Dod

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Re: Caledonia

#267270

Postby richfool » November 26th, 2019, 10:54 am

scrumpyjack wrote:I added to my holding this morning. It is a solid long term investment and I like the exposure to unlisted stocks (67%) as a counterbalance.

It may be the large unlisted element in the portfolio that accounts for the high discount to NAV (nearly 20%). I see that they are looking at reducing that a little.

Obviously not a fashionable share in the city with that level of discount.

Just thinking out loud here,- but wouldn't the large exposure to unlisted/unquoted holdings make investors wary, particularly in the light of recent events with Woodford's fund, and thus could well be at least part of the reason for the large discount (16.99%) the trust trades at? I had always understood that it is difficult to value unlisted holdings, and trusts with large levels of unlisted holdings are more susceptible/vulnerable when markets fall.

Assuming the above to be the case, it could though be an opportunity to buy some with the larger discount, assuming of course one is comfortable about the unlisted holdings.

I note Caledonia is now in the Flexible Sector.

https://citywire.co.uk/funds_insider/in ... undID=2815

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-sear ... rdinary-5p

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Re: Caledonia

#267274

Postby scrumpyjack » November 26th, 2019, 11:04 am

Yes but of course unlisted shares are only a problem for a unit trust not an investment trust. There can be no forced sales/redemptions in the case of an investment trust.

Woodford's problem was buying unlisted shares in a unit trust. When investors seek to redeem units the managers can't sell the unlisted holdings to fund the redemptions.

and yes I was suggesting that the unlisted holdings valuation is subjective and open to doubt, hence possibly a factor in the large discount

equally they might be worth more than the valuation?

Dod101
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Re: Caledonia

#267291

Postby Dod101 » November 26th, 2019, 11:48 am

scrumpyjack wrote:Yes but of course unlisted shares are only a problem for a unit trust not an investment trust. There can be no forced sales/redemptions in the case of an investment trust.

Woodford's problem was buying unlisted shares in a unit trust. When investors seek to redeem units the managers can't sell the unlisted holdings to fund the redemptions.

and yes I was suggesting that the unlisted holdings valuation is subjective and open to doubt, hence possibly a factor in the large discount

equally they might be worth more than the valuation?


I think, given Caledonia's culture, that their unlisted holdings are more likely to be undervalued rather than over valued, on the whole anyway.

Dod

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Re: Caledonia

#267374

Postby monabri » November 26th, 2019, 2:49 pm

Dod101 wrote:
scrumpyjack wrote:I added to my holding this morning. It is a solid long term investment and I like the exposure to unlisted stocks (67%) as a counterbalance.

It may be the large unlisted element in the portfolio that accounts for the high discount to NAV (nearly 20%). I see that they are looking at reducing that a little.

Obviously not a fashionable share in the city with that level of discount.


I do not think it is fashionable mainly I suspect because of the very large holding of the Cayzer family which controls it. The outside shareholders need to go along with whatever they want and do. There is no chance of buying in a meaningful amount of the shares because that would take the Cayzer holding to a level where they would be obliged to make a full offer. The City does not like this sort of 'closed shop'.

I bought it in 1992 at £3.48. It has had no rights issues or any thing else in that time so I can compare that price directly with its price today of just over £30. It is a forever share for me. The dividend steadily increases and it has an occasional 'special' to help things along.

Dod


I don't have all the divi info before year 2000 for Caledonia but based on a share price of £3.48 one can do some quick sums......

Image

The annualised internal rate of return is approx 10.7% (not including the divis pre-2000). That compares favourably to TJH's HYP return (9.8%).

The share price has increased by £30.4/3.48 = 8.75 times and there have been more than £9.36 of divis returned per share on top.

(From early 1992 to October 2019, RPI has increased from 137 (baseline 100 in 1987) to 291....a factor of 2.12).


Comments

- I assumed an investment of £5k but that's just for convenience.
- Of course I don't have the actual purchase date in 1992 but that doesn't matter to any great extent over the time frame.

Dod101
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Re: Caledonia

#267382

Postby Dod101 » November 26th, 2019, 3:11 pm

Well done monabri. I actually bought 1000 shares for £3560.14 on 10 June 1992. (More or less typical of my purchase level in these rather far off days) That was I think a Board Lot, now of course overtaken by electronics

My first dividend was the Final of 9.6p. Then the annual dividends were

1993 Interim 5p Final 10p
1994 5.4P, 10.8p
1995 5.7p, 11.3p
1996 5.9p, 12.1p
1997 6.2p, 12.8p plus a special of 30p (just before Labour's landslide)
1998 6.5p, 14p
1999 7p, 15p

You have the rest. In 2017, the FT reported that only Alliance, Bankers, Caledonia and City of London were dividend heroes, that is they had paid an increasing dividend for 50 consecutive years. There are a few more now but these are still the four with the outstanding record.

I wish all my shares had a record like that. As I have said before, follow the money.

Dod

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Re: Caledonia

#267387

Postby monabri » November 26th, 2019, 3:22 pm

That's a stonking 12.46% XIRR and over £11 back per share in dividends....follow the money - use superglue!

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Re: Caledonia

#267428

Postby jackdaww » November 26th, 2019, 5:01 pm

DAK the ongoing charges and any performance fees?

thanks

:?:

Dod101
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Re: Caledonia

#267435

Postby Dod101 » November 26th, 2019, 5:08 pm

jackdaww wrote:DAK the ongoing charges and any performance fees?

thanks

:?:


The ongoing charges ratio was 0.92% for the year to 31 March 2019. It is self managed and so there is no performance fee. The charges may seem high but their style of management is very hands on and of course that is borne out by the results.

Dod

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Re: Caledonia

#267442

Postby monabri » November 26th, 2019, 5:19 pm

jackdaww wrote:DAK the ongoing charges and any performance fees?

thanks

:?:



The ongoing charges are 0.94% total ( the performance fee is zero)...31/03/2019.

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-sear ... rdinary-5p


https://www.theaic.co.uk/companydata/0P00008ZMA/gearing

(Not too worried whether 0.92 or 0.94% !)

Dod101
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Re: Caledonia

#267491

Postby Dod101 » November 26th, 2019, 8:18 pm

monabri wrote:
jackdaww wrote:DAK the ongoing charges and any performance fees?

thanks

:?:



The ongoing charges are 0.94% total ( the performance fee is zero)...31/03/2019.

https://www.hl.co.uk/shares/shares-sear ... rdinary-5p


https://www.theaic.co.uk/companydata/0P00008ZMA/gearing

(Not too worried whether 0.92 or 0.94% !)


Neither am I but I always wonder why people prefer to go to a third party site for that sort of info rather than the Annual or Interim Reports from the company itself. I almost never use third parties. These reports are pretty well all available online nowadays

Dod


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