Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Temple Bar TMPL

Closed-end funds and OEICs
Parky
Lemon Slice
Posts: 378
Joined: June 9th, 2017, 8:51 am
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Temple Bar TMPL

#291919

Postby Parky » March 18th, 2020, 10:29 am

TMPL has now fallen over 50% from its recent high. I have given up trying to imagine what the real valuation could be for this and similar ITs, and am seriously considering topping up in a big way, solely on the "reasoning" that what has fallen the furthest must go up a long way eventually.

Current price 675p
Year high 1492p
Premium to NAV 2.5% (unreliable in these volatile conditions).
Average discount to NA last 12 months 3.5%
Yield 7.6%!
Portfolio. Many of the usual suspects for an income Trust. Overweight in Oils maybe.

Data from HL.

Any comments?

jackdaww
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2081
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:53 am
Has thanked: 3203 times
Been thanked: 417 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#291928

Postby jackdaww » March 18th, 2020, 10:37 am

tmpl are mainly unloved contrarian out of favour companies .

top holdings are ------

Capita PLC 7.8
Travis Perkins PLC 5.6
BP PLC 5.1
Grafton Group PLC 4.0
Tesco PLC 3.9
Lloyds Banking Group PLC 3.8
SIG PLC 3.6
Barclays PLC 3.4
GlaxoSmithKline PLC 7.2
Royal Dutch Shell PLC B 5.9

of those i only like glaxo , shell , -- and possibly tesco in this new situation .

:)

richfool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3492
Joined: November 19th, 2016, 2:02 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 1280 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#291987

Postby richfool » March 18th, 2020, 1:16 pm

jackdaww wrote:tmpl are mainly unloved contrarian out of favour companies .

top holdings are ------

Capita PLC 7.8
Travis Perkins PLC 5.6
BP PLC 5.1
Grafton Group PLC 4.0
Tesco PLC 3.9
Lloyds Banking Group PLC 3.8
SIG PLC 3.6
Barclays PLC 3.4
GlaxoSmithKline PLC 7.2
Royal Dutch Shell PLC B 5.9

of those i only like glaxo , shell , -- and possibly tesco in this new situation .

:)

As someone who bought into Temple Bar in December, after the general election result, it is certainly my worst performer currently, down some 54%. I have been sitting on it gritting my teeth. Understood it's holdings of major oil and domestic banks haven't helped. I had hoped it might hold up because of its exposure to Builder's merchants, but I think it really needed to have been holding hospital builders and ICU manufacturers to have any positive prospects.

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292000

Postby Dod101 » March 18th, 2020, 1:51 pm

richfool wrote:As someone who bought into Temple Bar in December, after the general election result, it is certainly my worst performer currently, down some 54%. I have been sitting on it gritting my teeth. Understood it's holdings of major oil and domestic banks haven't helped. I had hoped it might hold up because of its exposure to Builder's merchants, but I think it really needed to have been holding hospital builders and ICU manufacturers to have any positive prospects.


And as of yesterday's close it was on a pretty meaningless premium of 3.8%. I would not worry about capital value at the moment but presumably it has Revenue Reserves. The NAV simply cannot be measured at the moment.

Dod

jackdaww
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2081
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:53 am
Has thanked: 3203 times
Been thanked: 417 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292002

Postby jackdaww » March 18th, 2020, 1:55 pm

richfool wrote:
jackdaww wrote:tmpl are mainly unloved contrarian out of favour companies .

top holdings are ------

Capita PLC 7.8
Travis Perkins PLC 5.6
BP PLC 5.1
Grafton Group PLC 4.0
Tesco PLC 3.9
Lloyds Banking Group PLC 3.8
SIG PLC 3.6
Barclays PLC 3.4
GlaxoSmithKline PLC 7.2
Royal Dutch Shell PLC B 5.9

of those i only like glaxo , shell , -- and possibly tesco in this new situation .

:)

As someone who bought into Temple Bar in December, after the general election result, it is certainly my worst performer currently, down some 54%. I have been sitting on it gritting my teeth. Understood it's holdings of major oil and domestic banks haven't helped. I had hoped it might hold up because of its exposure to Builder's merchants, but I think it really needed to have been holding hospital builders and ICU manufacturers to have any positive prospects.


==================

yes my tmpl is down 50% , as are many of my other IT's , especially smaller company trusts.

i have been selling down quite a lot on the way down into cash and its paid off so far, but i think sitting tight is best now and wait for some stability .

:)

mike
Lemon Slice
Posts: 707
Joined: November 19th, 2016, 1:35 pm
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 428 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292014

Postby mike » March 18th, 2020, 2:29 pm

Dod101 wrote: [...] but presumably it has Revenue Reserves.

Dod


I calculate 12.5 months revenue reserve as at the 31/12/2019 results (£35.8m paid in year, £37.1m reserves at 31/12/19)

https://www.investegate.co.uk/temple-bar-inv-tst--tmpl-/prn/final-results/20200219105204P0BFC/

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292019

Postby Dod101 » March 18th, 2020, 2:50 pm

IT's dividends declared will presumably be quite secure because they must pay out at least 85% of their revenue earnings to maintain IT status and the tax advantages that go with that. So this dividend season should be OK and those Revenue Reserves may well help for next year.

Dod

richfool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3492
Joined: November 19th, 2016, 2:02 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 1280 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292022

Postby richfool » March 18th, 2020, 3:01 pm

It went ex div on the 12th March, - the large final quarter payout, (18.39p per share) which I had been hanging on for (paid 31st March). So whilst I had sold down a few other IT's such as JETI & MWY, I had left TMPL alone. (currently down 8.87% today :cry: )

Just need some good news from a few of TMPL's top ten holdings!! :?

EthicsGradient
Lemon Slice
Posts: 571
Joined: March 1st, 2019, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 231 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292067

Postby EthicsGradient » March 18th, 2020, 5:42 pm

Capita plc has dropped about 70% in the past month. So having that as its largest holding hurt Temple Bar even more than oil companies or banks.

ADrunkenMarcus
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1584
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 11:16 am
Has thanked: 672 times
Been thanked: 479 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292102

Postby ADrunkenMarcus » March 18th, 2020, 7:35 pm

Parky wrote:TMPL has now fallen over 50% from its recent high.
...
Any comments?


Simply that I noticed the share price is now lower than it was when I purchased in December 2001.

Best wishes

Mark.

StanBowles
Posts: 9
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292108

Postby StanBowles » March 18th, 2020, 8:05 pm

mike wrote:
Dod101 wrote: [...] but presumably it has Revenue Reserves.

Dod


I calculate 12.5 months revenue reserve as at the 31/12/2019 results (£35.8m paid in year, £37.1m reserves at 31/12/19)

https://www.investegate.co.uk/temple-bar-inv-tst--tmpl-/prn/final-results/20200219105204P0BFC/


I've been trying to compile a shortlist of ITs with the best revenue reserves ratios (revenue reserves over cost of last full year dividend) and dividend cover ratios (earnings over dividend). I delved into the most recent annual reports and compiled the following table. It is neither complete nor necessarily accurate but I think I have dug the right figures out of the reports and done it right. Any comments/thoughts/corrections welcome. As ever DYOR.

Reserves/div Div cover
SDV 2.0 1.49
SCF 1.5 1.1
EDIN 1.6 1.0
DIG 1.4 1.02
JCH 1.4 1.1
LWD 1.8 1.18
BRIG 1.6 1.55
TMPL 1.0 1.08
MRCH 1.1 0.91
BNKR 1.2 1.03
SMT 0.6 0.52
MYI 1.12 1.2
BUT 1.4 1.1
FCIT 1.8 1.1
FGT 0.1 1.1

77ss
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1271
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:42 am
Has thanked: 233 times
Been thanked: 414 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292132

Postby 77ss » March 18th, 2020, 10:01 pm

StanBowles wrote:....
I've been trying to compile a shortlist of ITs with the best revenue reserves ratios (revenue reserves over cost of last full year dividend) and dividend cover ratios (earnings over dividend). I delved into the most recent annual reports and compiled the following table. It is neither complete nor necessarily accurate but I think I have dug the right figures out of the reports and done it right. Any comments/thoughts/corrections welcome. As ever DYOR.

Reserves/div Div cover
SDV 2.0 1.49
SCF 1.5 1.1
EDIN 1.6 1.0
DIG 1.4 1.02
JCH 1.4 1.1
LWD 1.8 1.18
BRIG 1.6 1.55
TMPL 1.0 1.08
MRCH 1.1 0.91
BNKR 1.2 1.03
SMT 0.6 0.52
MYI 1.12 1.2
BUT 1.4 1.1
FCIT 1.8 1.1
FGT 0.1 1.1


You can download the data directly from the AIC website, pruning the resultant spreadsheet according to your interests/needs.

An example that I looked at on the 12/3/2020:




As ever, you need to be careful about definitions - I think the AIC's 'Div cover' is the same as your 'revenue reserves ratios'

StanBowles
Posts: 9
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292149

Postby StanBowles » March 18th, 2020, 11:26 pm

Yes that is right. I was aware of that and in my spreadsheet I used the terms reserves/div cover and earnings/div cover. Unfortunately in copying and pasting from my spreadsheet to the message, the headings did not copy in full.

Too often people get confused between the two different ratios. The AIC definition is here for the ratio that looks at many years income reserves can cover the existing dividend level in the absence of any other income:
https://www.theaic.co.uk/glossary/dividend-cover

The second ratio is what I termed earnings dividend cover and that the extent to which earnings from the underlying investments cover the trust's dividend payout in any one year.

EthicsGradient
Lemon Slice
Posts: 571
Joined: March 1st, 2019, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 33 times
Been thanked: 231 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292155

Postby EthicsGradient » March 18th, 2020, 11:57 pm

Temple Bar's share price (and many others, for that matter) is not going to be helped by this:

Oil collapses by another 24% to $20. It hasn't been this low since 2002

Intensifying recession fears drove US oil prices down a staggering 24% Wednesday to $20.37 a barrel. That's the lowest level since February 2002.
...
Goldman Sachs now expects 2020 oil demand to shrink by 1.1 million barrels per day, hitting a low in March when demand could plunge by 8 million barrels.
Rystad Energy is even more pessimistic, calling for a plunge of 2.8 million barrels per day in 2020. That's up fourfold from the energy firm's previous call for a drop of just 600,000 barrels per day. April demand alone is likely to nosedive by 11 million barrels per day, Rystad said.
Jet fuel is the biggest problem, with airlines around the world scrapping flights and parking planes because of travel restrictions. Global commercial air traffic will drop by about 20% this year, Rystad predicted.
Against that dismal backdrop, analysts warn more selling is likely to come in the oil patch.
Goldman Sachs warned Tuesday evening of an "inevitable fall" in US oil prices to around $20 a barrel during the second quarter. That's well below the Wall Street bank's previous call for $29 oil.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/18/busi ... index.html

monabri
Lemon Half
Posts: 8396
Joined: January 7th, 2017, 9:56 am
Has thanked: 1539 times
Been thanked: 3428 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#292158

Postby monabri » March 19th, 2020, 12:29 am

Things can change quickly...WTI futures has just increased by 16.8% to $24.3.

richfool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3492
Joined: November 19th, 2016, 2:02 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 1280 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#293959

Postby richfool » March 25th, 2020, 10:14 am

Looking at Temple Bar's top ten holdings, I can't see much light down the tunnel (well not as far ahead as I can easily see).

It's largest holding is Capita followed by Travis Perkins. Then the top ten holdings include: two UK banks RBS and Barclays, (Lloyds seems to have disappeared from the top ten), followed by Shell & BP, along with Easyjet also in there.

I can't see any great or early prospects for those recovering and am pondering whether to take my large losses and get rid of it, perhaps in favour of a global growth.

This is the most recent portfolio listing I can find. I was hoping the manager might have made some more recent portfolio changes.

https://www.templebarinvestments.co.uk/ ... portfolio/

mike
Lemon Slice
Posts: 707
Joined: November 19th, 2016, 1:35 pm
Has thanked: 42 times
Been thanked: 428 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#294047

Postby mike » March 25th, 2020, 1:57 pm

richfool wrote:Looking at Temple Bar's top ten holdings, I can't see much light down the tunnel (well not as far ahead as I can easily see).

It's largest holding is Capita followed by Travis Perkins. Then the top ten holdings include: two UK banks RBS and Barclays, (Lloyds seems to have disappeared from the top ten), followed by Shell & BP, along with Easyjet also in there.

I can't see any great or early prospects for those recovering and am pondering whether to take my large losses and get rid of it, perhaps in favour of a global growth.

This is the most recent portfolio listing I can find. I was hoping the manager might have made some more recent portfolio changes.



Today's RNS update is here

https://www.investegate.co.uk/temple-bar-inv-tst--tmpl-/prn/investment-update/20200325113924PD335/

The COVID-19 outbreak and the consequent extreme market volatility has proved an exceptionally difficult backdrop for the portfolio with many of the trust’s holdings falling significantly.

After lengthy discussion, the manager and board decided to increase significantly the liquidity on the portfolio thus immunizing the gearing on the Trust. This was conducted through sales of the least cyclically exposed of the stocks on the portfolio. This maintained much of the sensitivity to a market, and in particular to a value recovery.


The current Top 10 are listed at the link

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#294055

Postby Dod101 » March 25th, 2020, 2:26 pm

Clearly the sale of a substantial part of the portfolio was undertaken at not very favourable process but that seems to be a price worth paying in order to eliminate the effect of the gearing. Now they seem to think that they are left with shares that will respond positively if and when there is a sensible uplift I values, which is bound to happen sooner or later. I will just sit tight.

Dod

richfool
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3492
Joined: November 19th, 2016, 2:02 pm
Has thanked: 1195 times
Been thanked: 1280 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#294061

Postby richfool » March 25th, 2020, 2:43 pm

Thanks for that Mike.

The top ten holdings don't seem changed drastically. It would have been interesting to know what he had sold and what he had bought (if anything), or exactly how he is holding the "increased liquidity? I know he does hold some gold and silver (ETF's).

Parky
Lemon Slice
Posts: 378
Joined: June 9th, 2017, 8:51 am
Has thanked: 53 times
Been thanked: 106 times

Re: Temple Bar TMPL

#294080

Postby Parky » March 25th, 2020, 3:26 pm

Dod101 wrote: I will just sit tight.

Dod


Me too.


Return to “Investment Trusts and Unit Trusts”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests