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In what would you invest?

Closed-end funds and OEICs
SoBo65
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Re: In what would you invest?

#340299

Postby SoBo65 » September 14th, 2020, 9:26 pm

Pete675 wrote:Alliance Trust - ATST- is a consistently good performer that seems to fall under the radar somewhat. Global, with a fair chunk of US tech stocks.


I have been looking at ATST and what puts me off is the high number of individual stocks they hold with the top 20 being only 34% of the total. There is a high number of small holdings, the purpose of which I am not sure. I am prefer Mid Wynd which has a more concentrated portfolio and the manager has a personal shareholding of £14m in the trust, usually a good sign.

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Re: In what would you invest?

#340326

Postby JohnW » September 15th, 2020, 12:45 am

Avantegarde wrote:I have sold my £10,000 holding in the BMO Global Smaller Companies trust. It has been a dreadful dog for the past two and three-quarter years

What have you compared it to, to label it dreadful?

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Re: In what would you invest?

#340357

Postby richfool » September 15th, 2020, 9:13 am

SoBo65 wrote:
Pete675 wrote:Alliance Trust - ATST- is a consistently good performer that seems to fall under the radar somewhat. Global, with a fair chunk of US tech stocks.


I have been looking at ATST and what puts me off is the high number of individual stocks they hold with the top 20 being only 34% of the total. There is a high number of small holdings, the purpose of which I am not sure. I am prefer Mid Wynd which has a more concentrated portfolio and the manager has a personal shareholding of £14m in the trust, usually a good sign.

Yes, I too like and hold Mid Wynd. I like what the manager says on their factsheet.

JohnW
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Re: In what would you invest?

#341109

Postby JohnW » September 18th, 2020, 2:41 am

Avantegarde wrote:I have sold my £10,000 holding in the BMO Global Smaller Companies trust. It has been a dreadful dog for the past two and three-quarter years in which I have been invested,

"One of the reasons why active management is so difficult is that the correct investment choice may not be the easy choice. The challenge for an active manager is not limited to identifying the relatively small number of long-term winners. Success also requires holding the long-term winners when they go through painful periods of short-term underperformance.

Conviction and confidence are not enough to win the day — courage is also needed, and most needed precisely when it’s hardest to muster."
https://www.evidenceinvestor.com/how-co ... d-manager/

Daytona
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Re: In what would you invest?

#345242

Postby Daytona » October 5th, 2020, 5:34 am

If you believe that protection is more important than risk, then Ruffer, otherwise, Scottish Mortgage, which you have, but the degree of Covid outperformance needs to be assessed for ongoing risk.

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Re: In what would you invest?

#345259

Postby Dod101 » October 5th, 2020, 8:07 am

Daytona wrote:If you believe that protection is more important than risk, then Ruffer, otherwise, Scottish Mortgage, which you have, but the degree of Covid outperformance needs to be assessed for ongoing risk.


I do not understand. How can Ruffer and Scottish Mortgage be as it were interchangeable? They are it seems to me to be at opposite ends of the spectrum in risk and most other ways?

I hold Alliance and I queried them on the large number of holdings, many of which will make no difference to the outcome. It is a product they say of their stockpickers style and frankly if they produce the goods it makes no difference to me. They have good US exposure.

However the OP needs to say what he is actually looking for. Apart from Ruffer and PNL at one end of the spectrum and Scottish Mortgage at the other we have had mention of many good trust which lie in between and the whole thread is becoming meangless.

Dod

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Re: In what would you invest?

#345332

Postby Itsallaguess » October 5th, 2020, 12:33 pm

Dod101 wrote:
Daytona wrote:
If you believe that protection is more important than risk, then Ruffer, otherwise, Scottish Mortgage, which you have, but the degree of Covid outperformance needs to be assessed for ongoing risk.


I do not understand. How can Ruffer and Scottish Mortgage be as it were interchangeable?

They are it seems to me to be at opposite ends of the spectrum in risk and most other ways?


I don't think they're being mentioned as if they were interchangeable in the quote you're replying to Dod, and the 'otherwise' in the above quote is making that clear, I believe.

Perhaps restated, the quote you're questioning might have said -

"If you believe that protection is more important than risk, then Ruffer.

If you believe that risk is more important than protection, then Scottish Mortgage
"

I think you're both agreeing with each other...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Dod101
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Re: In what would you invest?

#345348

Postby Dod101 » October 5th, 2020, 12:55 pm

Itsallaguess wrote:
Dod101 wrote:
Daytona wrote:
If you believe that protection is more important than risk, then Ruffer, otherwise, Scottish Mortgage, which you have, but the degree of Covid outperformance needs to be assessed for ongoing risk.


I do not understand. How can Ruffer and Scottish Mortgage be as it were interchangeable?

They are it seems to me to be at opposite ends of the spectrum in risk and most other ways?


I don't think they're being mentioned as if they were interchangeable in the quote you're replying to Dod, and the 'otherwise' in the above quote is making that clear, I believe.

Perhaps restated, the quote you're questioning might have said -

"If you believe that protection is more important than risk, then Ruffer.

If you believe that risk is more important than protection, then Scottish Mortgage
"

I think you're both agreeing with each other...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


Thanks. Yes I must be dim but that makes sense and is most likely what is meant..

Dod

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Re: In what would you invest?

#345356

Postby doug2500 » October 5th, 2020, 1:18 pm

SoBo65 wrote:
Pete675 wrote:Alliance Trust - ATST- is a consistently good performer that seems to fall under the radar somewhat. Global, with a fair chunk of US tech stocks.


I have been looking at ATST and what puts me off is the high number of individual stocks they hold with the top 20 being only 34% of the total. There is a high number of small holdings, the purpose of which I am not sure. I am prefer Mid Wynd which has a more concentrated portfolio and the manager has a personal shareholding of £14m in the trust, usually a good sign.


My understanding is they subcontract fund management to I think about 8 different managers who each run a small 'best ideas' portfolio. Unless they all go large on one stock, which is unlikely as they have different styles (might even have different mandates?) this strategy will result in a large(ish) number of small holdings.

For the record, I also like Mid Wynd.

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Re: In what would you invest?

#345377

Postby scrumpyjack » October 5th, 2020, 2:44 pm

What does make me uneasy about Alliance Trust is that they buy back shares almost every day and that may be the only thing keeping the discount at a modest level.

A company cannot eat itself indefinitely. The buy back policy is fine for a strong IT that swings between premium and discount (like SMT), but for one that is always at a discount it is not sustainable in the long term.

Dod101
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Re: In what would you invest?

#345379

Postby Dod101 » October 5th, 2020, 3:11 pm

scrumpyjack wrote:What does make me uneasy about Alliance Trust is that they buy back shares almost every day and that may be the only thing keeping the discount at a modest level.

A company cannot eat itself indefinitely. The buy back policy is fine for a strong IT that swings between premium and discount (like SMT), but for one that is always at a discount it is not sustainable in the long term.


There is of course a limit to the number of shares that they can buy back in one year, but really all they are doing is picking off the 'soft' holders. As an investor I am very happy with that as it is just the opposite from what I have been complaining about with TRIG and others over the last year or so, placing shares and so diluting my economic value. If there is a time to buy back shares it has surely been the last few months.

As to the point about two of their stockpickers holding or at least buying the same share, that is one of the things that the investment manager Willis Towers Watson monitors but it will not happen very often since as has been said, the stockpickers are chosen for their differing styles.

Dod


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