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PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

Closed-end funds and OEICs
Snorvey
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PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#350803

Postby Snorvey » October 26th, 2020, 4:54 pm

Below are the resolutions to vote on:
1. To approve the reclassification of the shares in the capital of the Company as shares with “A” rights and shares with “B” rights and to approve changes required to the Company’s articles of association.
2. To approve the scheme of reconstruction and winding up of the Company (the “Scheme”).


I'm not really sure what they're talking about here - but item 2 is quite alarming!

Anyone?

Arborbridge
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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#350808

Postby Arborbridge » October 26th, 2020, 5:06 pm

Snorvey wrote:Below are the resolutions to vote on:
1. To approve the reclassification of the shares in the capital of the Company as shares with “A” rights and shares with “B” rights and to approve changes required to the Company’s articles of association.
2. To approve the scheme of reconstruction and winding up of the Company (the “Scheme”).


I'm not really sure what they're talking about here - but item 2 is quite alarming!

Anyone?


I presume this is concerning the merger with MUT. MUT is in effect taking over PLI and when it has done so, PLI will be wound up and cease to exist. My guess is there is no cause for alarm - in any case there is s.. all one can do about it 8-)

Arb.

staffordian
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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#350810

Postby staffordian » October 26th, 2020, 5:07 pm

Its pretty much a done deal.

Basically, it's being merged with Murray Income Trust.

As I understand it, doing nothing will give holders of PLI a number of MUT shares.

There is an option to cash in a proportion of ones PLI shares at a price to be determined, but up to a maximum of 20% of the total shares in issue, so it's possible that those electing for this option will not get the full quota of cash if too many PLI holders opt for this.

There is a thread on here, which I can't currently find from a quick scan with a bit of info, but I'm surprised it hasn't cropped up as a topic earlier.

monabri
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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#350812

Postby monabri » October 26th, 2020, 5:12 pm

It was discussed here

viewtopic.php?p=328914#p328914

or, to cut out a bit of preamble (July 29th)

viewtopic.php?p=329315#p329315
Last edited by monabri on October 26th, 2020, 5:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.

swill453
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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#350813

Postby swill453 » October 26th, 2020, 5:12 pm

The message I just got about this said

Under the proposed terms of the offer, you will be given the choice to sell up to 20% your shares for 98% of the Formula Asset Value (FAV).

The FAV per Share will be the difference between the Residual Net Asset Value and the Cash Pool NAV divided by the total number of Reclassified Shares with “A” rights and calculated to six decimal places.

Not sure how to evaluate whether it's worth going for the cash. Any clues anyone?

Scott.

staffordian
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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#350816

Postby staffordian » October 26th, 2020, 5:20 pm

A related question which I've not had chance to think through yet.

PLI has been a pile of poo as far as capital performance is concerned.

My 12k investment is currently worth around 8.5k.

Keeping track of overall performance, I'm assume I'll get 8.5k worth of MUT, but it has actually cost me 12k.

Not really sure how to reconcile this difference when judging the overall return of my basket, as the purchase cost of my MUT will effectively "write off" the 3.5k loss.

I'm probably overthinking things, and it may become clear when I actually enter the details, but in the meantime, any thoughts would be appreciated.

staffordian
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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#350819

Postby staffordian » October 26th, 2020, 5:23 pm

swill453 wrote:The message I just got about this said

Under the proposed terms of the offer, you will be given the choice to sell up to 20% your shares for 98% of the Formula Asset Value (FAV).

The FAV per Share will be the difference between the Residual Net Asset Value and the Cash Pool NAV divided by the total number of Reclassified Shares with “A” rights and calculated to six decimal places.

Not sure how to evaluate whether it's worth going for the cash. Any clues anyone?

Scott.

I wondered that, but assumed that as the offer price won't be known until after an election has to be made, it would be something of a lottery.

As I see it, opting for MUT will result in a lower yield but hopefully a better capital performance so I've decided not to go for any cash.

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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#350832

Postby Dod101 » October 26th, 2020, 5:48 pm

HI Snorvey

You need to get up to date with developments! Murray Income is buying the assets of Perpetual at pretty much NAV and as a shareholder in Murray I am not too happy about that. I would have hoped we might have got them at say a 1% discount. As mentioned above, Perpetual holders are also being offered the opportunity to tender some of their shares in Perpetual at I think NAV on the given date. They are also getting a special dividend, representing the Revenue Reserves of Perpetual. The Perpetual trust is then being wound up, but there will not be much left as the shares being issued by Murray Income to buy the assets will be passed on to the shareholders of Perpetual who do not or cannot tender their shares. Then you will end up with Murray Income shares if you are a current shareholder of Perpetual.

Dod

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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#350841

Postby Snorvey » October 26th, 2020, 6:13 pm

Thanks guys. I completely missed the original thread

Apologies for not keeping up George. It won't happen again.

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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#350886

Postby Arborbridge » October 26th, 2020, 10:52 pm

staffordian wrote:A related question which I've not had chance to think through yet.

PLI has been a pile of poo as far as capital performance is concerned.

My 12k investment is currently worth around 8.5k.

Keeping track of overall performance, I'm assume I'll get 8.5k worth of MUT, but it has actually cost me 12k.

Not really sure how to reconcile this difference when judging the overall return of my basket, as the purchase cost of my MUT will effectively "write off" the 3.5k loss.

I'm probably overthinking things, and it may become clear when I actually enter the details, but in the meantime, any thoughts would be appreciated.


It's actually PLI which cost you 12k, not MUT. What you have is 8.5k of capital being invested in MUT. Since MUT has been the better investment, I would think swapping out of one into the other is either slightly beneficial or neutral.

Personally, I'd prefer to stay with MUT than cash out - what would I do with it except buy something similar to replace the income hole left by PLI? True, the yield is lower, but I guess I can absorb that difference in my basket.

Arb.

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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#350891

Postby staffordian » October 26th, 2020, 11:43 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
staffordian wrote:A related question which I've not had chance to think through yet.

PLI has been a pile of poo as far as capital performance is concerned.

My 12k investment is currently worth around 8.5k.

Keeping track of overall performance, I'm assume I'll get 8.5k worth of MUT, but it has actually cost me 12k.

Not really sure how to reconcile this difference when judging the overall return of my basket, as the purchase cost of my MUT will effectively "write off" the 3.5k loss.

I'm probably overthinking things, and it may become clear when I actually enter the details, but in the meantime, any thoughts would be appreciated.


It's actually PLI which cost you 12k, not MUT. What you have is 8.5k of capital being invested in MUT. Since MUT has been the better investment, I would think swapping out of one into the other is either slightly beneficial or neutral.

Personally, I'd prefer to stay with MUT than cash out - what would I do with it except buy something similar to replace the income hole left by PLI? True, the yield is lower, but I guess I can absorb that difference in my basket.

Arb.

Thanks Arb.

I do intend to keep the MUT I shall receive.

My muddled thinking results from my initial reaction that having bought eight ITs, (since increased to ten) I would stick with them in a Dorisian manner, and the performance calculations would be rather straightforward, because I would be dealing with purchases and reinvestment of dividends, but no sales.

When deciding which to top up my main consideration is to strive towards roughly equal purchase costs, but my 12k purchase of PLI becomes an 8.5k purchase of MUT. So I guess other things being equal, I'll simply divert funds towards MUT until it matches my others.

It's just a case of resetting my thoughts...

Staffordian

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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#353736

Postby swill453 » November 5th, 2020, 12:10 pm

I see we're getting a 13p per share special dividend from Perpetual on 13th November. The AIC site are showing it as Capital rather than Income, which means it'll mess up my income spreadsheet for the year, unless I ignore it (and reinvest it).

No doubt it'll be the last we get from PLI before it's converted to MUT shares.

Scott.

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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#353749

Postby LittleDorrit » November 5th, 2020, 12:33 pm

Then the A.I.C. are wrong.The 13p is a dividend paid from revenue reserves. Normally one might also expect a small income distribution on final completion of the liquidation process, but there has been no announcement to this effect. The only capital distribution payable will be if you elected to take part in the cash tender process.

swill453
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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#353754

Postby swill453 » November 5th, 2020, 12:38 pm

LittleDorrit wrote:Then the A.I.C. are wrong.The 13p is a dividend paid from revenue reserves. Normally one might also expect a small income distribution on final completion of the liquidation process, but there has been no announcement to this effect. The only capital distribution payable will be if you elected to take part in the cash tender process.

Useful to know, thanks.

Scott.

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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#357152

Postby eyeball08 » November 16th, 2020, 7:46 pm

Probably a daft question but if PLI is held in an ISA, having not been asked anything by the broker/provider regarding options, is it safe to assume that the transfer to the Murray Income Trust will go through automatically? There was some mention of a partial cash option on the other thread but I didn’t want to do that anyway. Would have been nice to have been asked perhaps.
Eyeball

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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#357162

Postby swill453 » November 16th, 2020, 8:39 pm

eyeball08 wrote:Probably a daft question but if PLI is held in an ISA, having not been asked anything by the broker/provider regarding options, is it safe to assume that the transfer to the Murray Income Trust will go through automatically? There was some mention of a partial cash option on the other thread but I didn’t want to do that anyway. Would have been nice to have been asked perhaps.
Eyeball

From the company announcement: "In accordance with the Scheme, eligible Shareholders that made no Election have been deemed to have elected for the Rollover Option."

https://www.theaic.co.uk/companydata/0P ... 3A09/P0315

(Not sure why you weren't asked, AJBell forwarded me 5 requests for a response for each of my ISA and SIPP.)

BTW I think the changeover to MUT shares happens at the end of this week https://www.theaic.co.uk/companydata/0P ... 3A06/6819D

Scott.

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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#357163

Postby staffordian » November 16th, 2020, 8:44 pm

eyeball08 wrote:Probably a daft question but if PLI is held in an ISA, having not been asked anything by the broker/provider regarding options, is it safe to assume that the transfer to the Murray Income Trust will go through automatically? There was some mention of a partial cash option on the other thread but I didn’t want to do that anyway. Would have been nice to have been asked perhaps.
Eyeball

I hold in an ISA via Halifax Share Dealing and was notified a while ago that I had a message to deal with regarding the relevent options.

As swill453 said, the default is an exchange of shares.

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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#357197

Postby eyeball08 » November 16th, 2020, 10:43 pm

Heard nothing from interactive investor :|

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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#357277

Postby valueinvestor123 » November 17th, 2020, 9:53 am

My PLI prices have disappeared so I decided to find out what's going on and see it is being merged with MUT. How many MUT shares do we receive for each PLI?

staffordian
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Re: PERPETUAL INCOME & GROWTH I T

#357302

Postby staffordian » November 17th, 2020, 10:52 am

valueinvestor123 wrote:My PLI prices have disappeared so I decided to find out what's going on and see it is being merged with MUT. How many MUT shares do we receive for each PLI?

I think the valuation to determine this is imminent but I've seen nothing to suggest it has already occurred.

Strangely, mine disappeared from my portfolio with Halifax around a week ago, but prices for PLI were still available on the LSE.

I had a shock when I first saw the headline valuation of my portfolio after the rally following the Pfizer announcement a week last Monday, until I looked more closely and found that ten percent of my shares had "disappeared" :)


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