Difficulty buying ITs in certificated form

[Matchless]

For whatever reason I like to hold my investments in certificated form, but recently have found that my usual brokers are no longer allowing the purchase of ITs in certificated form - I’ve been given several reasons for this such as unwilling to pay the licence fee (this from the registrar of the company I was trying to invest in) and staff problems due to Covid - does anyone have any suggestions or observations - I can still buy other shares in certificated form.

[Dod101]

For whatever reason I like to hold my investments in certificated form, but recently have found that my usual brokers are no longer allowing the purchase of ITs in certificated form - I’ve been given several reasons for this such as unwilling to pay the licence fee (this from the registrar of the company I was trying to invest in) and staff problems due to Covid - does anyone have any suggestions or observations - I can still buy other shares in certificated form.

I hold a trading account with Interactive Investors so I would buy them on their platform and then ask them to withdraw them as a certificate. It costs very little to buy them and then about £25 or so to have them withdrawn. I assume it works with ITs; it certainly does with other shares. I think few brokers nowadays allow you to buy directly in certificated form although I expect there still will be a few, but it is probably quite expensive.

Dod

[Matchless]

Thank you Dod, I am aware of what you suggest, but my inclination is to avoid platforms in principle as they can change what they charge, what they do, and the way they do things at the drop of a hat, and my view, we are creating financial monsters in them by abandoning our voting rights to them, one of the points I was focusing on is what is the difference between buying ordinary shares and investment trusts in certificated form, is the difference something we should be aware of? - regarding costs I would rather pay more to actually own what I think I own rather than have in intermediary between me and it.

[dealtn]

Thank you Dod, I am aware of what you suggest, but my inclination is to avoid platforms in principle as they can change what they charge, what they do, and the way they do things at the drop of a hat, and my view, we are creating financial monsters in them by abandoning our voting rights to them, one of the points I was focusing on is what is the difference between buying ordinary shares and investment trusts in certificated form, is the difference something we should be aware of? - regarding costs I would rather pay more to actually own what I think I own rather than have in intermediary between me and it.

Surely Dod's solution does exactly that?

You buy through a broker, who purchase as a nominee, and you then withdraw that ownership from them asking the broker to provide you a certificate. You own a certificate, and your name is on the share register not the broker's nominee. What intermediary do you perceive to be between you and "it" (assuming that it means ownership in the underlying company)?

[EthicsGradient]

To be precise, Interactive Investor's charge for withdrawal of a paper certificate is £42 (£35 + VAT). Doable, but fairly expensive, especially if it's something you'll do several times. Seems worth shopping around for whatever broker would be cheapest. And of course there's II's £10/month flat fee, even if you don't have any investments in your account.

"the difference between buying ordinary shares and investment trusts in certificated form, is the difference something we should be aware of?"

It seems surprising to me, too; I think you should ask your current broker why they insist there is a difference. I don't think others would say there is.

[Matchless]

Exactly my point, platforms / brokers can change what they charge and what the do at the drop of a hat

[88V8]

How to vote on shareholder matters in ii

Log in
Under ‘Account’, go to ‘Personal details & preferences’
Go to 'Your preferences' and click 'update your preferences'
Tick the box to subscribe to the Voting & Information service

Interactive Investor have pretty low charges.
OK, they might change.
So?

The cost of insurance and petrol and fuel duty changes.
So?

V8

[Dod101]

I used to buy certificated shares directly via Stocktrade but as far as I know they are no more. Then I could get the same arrangement via Alliance Trust Savings but they became part of II. They were both more expensive than the method I outlined by using II's Trading Account. £42 plus the platform fees is not a lot compared to what I would pay in the old days.

I expect you can find a 'full service' stockbroker but that will also be expensive.

Re the difference between IT shares and others, I have occasionally had to tick a couple of boxes I think, when buying an IT because either they fell under or the broker thought they fell under some legislation to protect the masses when buying a fund, but other than that there is of course no difference.

On the general point, I agree with the OP about the benefits of holding shares in certificated form for the sake of security but obviously, you are then denying yourself the tax sheltered arrangements of an ISA or a SIPP. You also need to have a secure place to hold the certificates.

Dod

[Matchless]

Thank you all for your response, but it would seem it is considered of little interest or relevance to anything, and you could be right, that now, while buying shares directly in certificated form is available, buying investment trusts directly in certificated form is not, hey-ho one can take a horse to water etc.

[UncleEbenezer]

Thank you Dod, I am aware of what you suggest, but my inclination is to avoid platforms in principle as they can change what they charge, what they do, and the way they do things at the drop of a hat,

Up to a point. But if all you're using them for is as a route to acquiring your certificated shares then surely that doesn't affect you any more than an oldfashioned stockbroker's changes to its services?

and my view, we are creating financial monsters in them by abandoning our voting rights to them,

I can - and several times have done - vote my shares held on a platform.

regarding costs I would rather pay more to actually own what I think I own rather than have in intermediary between me and it.

But an IT is itself an intermediary between you and your actual assets!

Your decision of course. I moved the opposite way some time back: it makes things so much easier when I don't have to go through nonsense like notifying all the registrars of a change of address. Particularly those registrars (crapita/link, I'm looking at you) who make you notify them entirely separately for each certificate I hold.

[Matchless]

While I thank you for your response UE I would suggest that you have missed the point(s) and not only swallowed the bait but also the hook.

[Bouleversee]

Walker Crips used to have a division for dealing without using an advisory broker through which we used to buy and sell shares in certificated form but I don't know whether they still do. I web only charge £25 for giving you a certificate for shares bought in their dealing account for £5 per deal and don't have a service charge but I think I read that they are increasing their opening fee. How about buying them through Equiniti or whoever is the registrar
for whichever company you wish to buy? Their brokerage fee is probably higher than most but there would not, I think, be any extra charge for the certificate because that is probably what you automatically get and you could sell them through them as well. Might be the cheapest and simplest way in the end, with no strings attached.

I would be interested to know what you find as I have gifted shares to my grandchildren over the years which they will want to cash in at some point, probably quite soon in the case of the l8 yr old, and it would be useful to know what is the cheapest way of doing it.

[monabri]

I web only charge £25 for giving you a certificate for shares bought in their dealing account for £5 per deal and don't have a service charge but I think I read that they are increasing their opening fee.

Yes, iWeb now charge £100 as an account opening fee but for this sum you gain both a trading and an ISA account and (currently) no custody fees and a £5 buy/sell fee (plus tax).

[doug2500]

I web only charge £25 for giving you a certificate for shares bought in their dealing account for £5 per deal and don't have a service charge but I think I read that they are increasing their opening fee.

Yes, iWeb now charge £100 as an account opening fee but for this sum you gain both a trading and an ISA account and (currently) no custody fees and a £5 buy/sell fee (plus tax).

And if it makes you feel any better I paid £250 just before they lowered it to £25!!!

[Bouleversee]

I really don't know why they charge anything to join other than perhaps a nominal sum to cover admin. costs.

I see I have received an email from them today saying they have changed their t&cs but haven't had time to digest it yet. Have you had/read it and if so is there anything significant?

[doug2500]

I really don't know why they charge anything to join other than perhaps a nominal sum to cover admin. costs.

I see I have received an email from them today saying they have changed their t&cs but haven't had time to digest it yet. Have you had/read it and if so is there anything significant?

Can't help I'm afraid.

[monabri]

I really don't know why they charge anything to join other than perhaps a nominal sum to cover admin. costs.

I see I have received an email from them today saying they have changed their t&cs but haven't had time to digest it yet. Have you had/read it and if so is there anything significant?

From the website..there's a 34 page T&C document effective from April 1st 2021 which replaces the previous 34 page T&C document.

[Bouleversee]

Thanks, Mon. It will presumably be the same as my email. I'll stay up all night reading it once I've found out how I can join a Teams meeting with my respiratory team.

[Bouleversee]

Actually, from my email it would appear that the changes we need to know about are in sections 4, 7, 12, 13, 15 and l7. I wonder why you haven't received the same email.