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Geenking proceeds what next?

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biffinsbridge
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Geenking proceeds what next?

#267077

Postby biffinsbridge » November 25th, 2019, 5:00 pm

                                                                                 Value     Div    Fcst 
Share Epic Sector %Total %Total Yield

BP BP Oil & Gas Producers 9.72% 8.24% 6.30%
British American Tobacco BATS Tobacco 6.18% 6.06% 7.30%
British Land Company BLND Retail REITs 5.94% 4.56% 5.70%
BT Group BT-A Fixed Line Telecommunications 5.04% 5.35% 7.90%
Dixons Carphone DC General Retailers 1.51% 1.16% 5.70%
GlaxoSmithKline GSK Pharmaceuticals & Biotechnology 7.38% 4.66% 4.70%
Lloyds Banking Group LLOY Banks 4.60% 3.53% 5.70%
National Grid NG Multiutilities 11.71% 8.50% 5.40%
Imperial Brands IMB Tobacco 10.49% 16.65% 11.80%
Centrica CNA Gas, Water & Multiutilities 1.79% 1.64% 6.80%
Taylor Wimpey TW Household Goods & Home Construction 17.14% 24.65% 10.70%
United Utilities Group UU Gas, Water & Multiutilities 12.81% 8.44% 4.90%
Rio Tinto RIO Mining 5.69% 6.57% 8.60%

Portfolio Running Yield = 7.44%


Value Div
Sector %Total %Total

Oil & Gas Producers 9.72% 8.24%
Tobacco 16.67% 22.71%
Retail REITs 5.94% 4.56%
Fixed Line Telecommunications 5.04% 5.35%
General Retailers 1.51% 1.16%
Pharmaceuticals & Biotechnology 7.38% 4.66%
Banks 4.60% 3.53%
Multiutilities 11.71% 8.50%
Gas, Water & Multiutilities 14.60% 10.08%
Household Goods & Home Construction 17.14% 24.65%
Mining 5.69% 6.57%
Total 100.00% 100.00%

Note: 1...'Value %Total' is the portfolio value of the share as a % of the total portfolio
2...'Div %Total' is the expected dividend of the share based on forecast yield
as a % of the total portfolio expected dividend


This is how it is now. My wifes ISA holds Aviva; British Land; Santander; Lloyds;Legal & General;SSE; Verizon;Vodafone; Imperial Brands;BT; I am thinking of topping up Rio Tinto, but also need to add a new share to full £7000 value. I have relied on IDPickering; Gengalphus & TJH260933 which has worked well so far. Any options considered. Regards Dickie

tjh290633
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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267121

Postby tjh290633 » November 25th, 2019, 8:07 pm

I would look for a couple of new sectors. You have already duplicated tobacco and utilities. Why? Having lost GNK you have no brewer. I see no food. There are more gaps in sectors with eligible shares. Look at what others have.

TJH

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267479

Postby Arborbridge » November 26th, 2019, 7:33 pm

At the risk of high jacking your thread, I have the same problem, but I am considering a different solution.

I'm coming to the rather unpleasant conclusion that my HYP is not producing the rate of growth in income that it could compared with a humble tracker such as VUKE.

My increase in income from June 13 to Sept 19 has been a factor of x1.18, whereas VUKE has turned in x1.54.
The capital increase has been rather more too. The only way in which my HYP has been an advantage is the yield,as one would expect.

Currently my HYP is 5.5% and the historic yield on VUKE is 4.75%, less fees I would pay of 0.25%. Even so, this is comparable to the average of my IT basket.

Conclusion: unless anyone can see a hole in this argument, I think I'll put some skin in the game and buy some VUKE. It'll fit rather well alongside my IT basket and we'll see how it goes for a few years.

Arb.

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267492

Postby monabri » November 26th, 2019, 8:25 pm

I'd be tempted to buy something non duplicating & non UK such as HFEL ( Henderson Far East ) for the higher yield.


VUKE
Security Weight
HSBC HLDGS 6.49%
ASTRAZENECA 5.42%
BP 5.36%
ROYAL DUTCH SHELL 5.27%
GLAXOSMITHKLINE 4.77%
ROYAL DUTCH SHELL 4.57% (10% Shell +5% BP :: 15% Oil).
DIAGEO 4.07%
BRITISH AMERICAN TOBACCO 3.39%
UNILEVER 2.77%
RIO TINTO 2.43%

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267499

Postby Dod101 » November 26th, 2019, 8:33 pm

Arborbridge wrote:At the risk of high jacking your thread, I have the same problem, but I am considering a different solution.

I'm coming to the rather unpleasant conclusion that my HYP is not producing the rate of growth in income that it could compared with a humble tracker such as VUKE.

My increase in income from June 13 to Sept 19 has been a factor of x1.18, whereas VUKE has turned in x1.54.
The capital increase has been rather more too. The only way in which my HYP has been an advantage is the yield,as one would expect.

Currently my HYP is 5.5% and the historic yield on VUKE is 4.75%, less fees I would pay of 0.25%. Even so, this is comparable to the average of my IT basket.

Conclusion: unless anyone can see a hole in this argument, I think I'll put some skin in the game and buy some VUKE. It'll fit rather well alongside my IT basket and we'll see how it goes for a few years.

Arb.


And I guess your HYP has not done very well on the capital front either. Neither has mine. In another month or so I will do my figures though and let you know. So VUKE I now discover is the Vanguard FTSE100 ETF. If you are not doing at least as well, and hopefully better than it has, then you need to look at your choice of shares surely? I do not know if I have done any better either but should be in a position to say at 31 December or at least shortly thereafter. But that is where I would look and see if you can fine tune your portfolio. In any case is that the best benchmark in the same way that some might use City of London IT?

Or is it that you feel you want an easier life (which is perfectly reasonable)

Dod

Dod

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267509

Postby Arborbridge » November 26th, 2019, 9:02 pm

Dod101 wrote:And I guess your HYP has not done very well on the capital front either. Neither has mine. In another month or so I will do my figures though and let you know. So VUKE I now discover is the Vanguard FTSE100 ETF. If you are not doing at least as well, and hopefully better than it has, then you need to look at your choice of shares surely? I do not know if I have done any better either but should be in a position to say at 31 December or at least shortly thereafter. But that is where I would look and see if you can fine tune your portfolio. In any case is that the best benchmark in the same way that some might use City of London IT?

Or is it that you feel you want an easier life (which is perfectly reasonable)

Dod

Dod


You raise some interesting points. An easier life eventually would be one aim, I admit. Sooner or later, this portfolio might be handed on, or I might lose interest.

Sorry I didn't mention what VUKE was - remiss of me, but I'm glad you found it. My choice of shares and the balance between them was as a result of following the HYP procedure. It is therefore a HY sub-set of the FTSE 100 (mostly) of broadly balanced investments into each company. The VUKE is not balanced but copies the capital distribution of the FTSE and whatever its yield happens to be.

In effect, we have two groups: a balanced HY subset, versus the whole caboodle giving in effect two rival theories.
I guess it is no surprise that the first gives a higher income but with lower growth and poorer capital perfomance than the later.

Arb.

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267511

Postby monabri » November 26th, 2019, 9:03 pm

monabri wrote:I'd be tempted to buy something non duplicating & non UK such as HFEL ( Henderson Far East ) for the higher yield.


Ah, sorry, I remember you already hold shares in HFEL (May 2019 update)..number 2 after CTY in terms of percentage.

viewtopic.php?p=219436#p219436

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267522

Postby Arborbridge » November 26th, 2019, 10:30 pm

monabri wrote:
monabri wrote:I'd be tempted to buy something non duplicating & non UK such as HFEL ( Henderson Far East ) for the higher yield.


Ah, sorry, I remember you already hold shares in HFEL (May 2019 update)..number 2 after CTY in terms of percentage.

viewtopic.php?p=219436#p219436


Yes, true - and that is also not in the same broker account as the GNK cash!

I'm a little hesitant about VUKE and need to make some more comparisons. The dividend growth, BTW, appears to be better than either CTY and possible HFEL (needs checking). Cautious because I have had disappointments with wondrous ETFs before on the UK scene. though they were based around various pet dividend theories (eg UKDV)

Arb.

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267539

Postby Alaric » November 27th, 2019, 12:52 am

Arborbridge wrote:I'm a little hesitant about VUKE and need to make some more comparisons. The dividend growth, BTW, appears to be better than either CTY and possible HFEL (needs checking). Cautious because I have had disappointments with wondrous ETFs before on the UK scene. though they were based around various pet dividend theories (eg UKDV)


I believe VUKE is simple minded. It invests in all the shares in the FTSE 100 share index in proportion to their capitalisations and is reviewed according to the quarterly rules on promotion (joining the FTSE 100 Index) and relegation. Whatever results as the dividend yield is driven by those decisions. Supposedly active funds that benchmarked to the FTSE 100 would make similar selections.

Individual investors and fund managers are at liberty to invest in subsets of the top 100 and vary the proportions. Unless their choices out perform, those selecting the shares with a higher dividend return might expect a poorer capital return and vice versa.

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267551

Postby Arborbridge » November 27th, 2019, 7:34 am

Alaric wrote:
I believe VUKE is simple minded.


It should be a good match for me then 8-) :lol:

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267640

Postby Bouleversee » November 27th, 2019, 12:38 pm

Have you had a look at Tate and Lyle recently, Arb? It seems to be on a bit of a roll following a fallow period and has increased dividends by around 2.5% in each of the past 2 years. What do you think, TJH? I know you also hold.

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267648

Postby kempiejon » November 27th, 2019, 1:08 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Have you had a look at Tate and Lyle recently, Arb? It seems to be on a bit of a roll following a fallow period and has increased dividends by around 2.5% in each of the past 2 years. What do you think, TJH? I know you also hold.


The trouble with TATE and I hold is the 4% yield is less than the available VUKE about 4.4% I think and has that specific company risk.

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267688

Postby biffinsbridge » November 27th, 2019, 3:00 pm

I have bought 964 Tate & 3813 Marstons, with my Greenking proceeds.Any opinions greatly accepted. Regards Dickie.

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267701

Postby tjh290633 » November 27th, 2019, 3:38 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Have you had a look at Tate and Lyle recently, Arb? It seems to be on a bit of a roll following a fallow period and has increased dividends by around 2.5% in each of the past 2 years. What do you think, TJH? I know you also hold.

I have held TATE since 1999, first bought at 392p. Added to in 2000 at 269p, in 2001 at 247p and in 2002 at 352p. In October 2002 it went overweight at 361p and I sold 20%.In 2003 I added more when underweight at 347p then, come 2006, I was overweight again and trimmed on two occasions, in February at 595p and in December at 813p. Became underweight again and topped up in 2007 at 560p and in 2009 at 300p. Now in 2011 it went overweight again and I trimmed back by one-third at 647p. Two more top-ups, in 2014 at 697p and in 2015 at 517p. As you can see there have been ups and downs along the way.

The dividend at the starting price was 21.4p, or 5.5%, but that was complicated by a year end change. 17.8p is a better figure to use as a benchmark. There have been a few years when the dividend has been held, but never cut. Currently it is 29.6p (Final plus interim) and the yield is 4.0% at the price of about 740p. As has been said above, slightly below the market. My IRR has been 13.0%, but on a single share it would have been 3.15% held from the start.

It has done well for me, by taking advantage of the contrarian movements. It has been over 800p on three occasions - 2006, 2013 and 2017.

TJH

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267710

Postby tjh290633 » November 27th, 2019, 3:56 pm

Arborbridge wrote:My increase in income from June 13 to Sept 19 has been a factor of x1.18, whereas VUKE has turned in x1.54.

The capital increase has been rather more too. The only way in which my HYP has been an advantage is the yield,as one would expect.

An interesting situation. Looking at my income per unit, excluding special dividends, we get:

Year to      Divs/unit (p)
05-Apr-88 2.83
05-Apr-89 2.25
05-Apr-90 3.40
05-Apr-91 4.67
05-Apr-92 5.94
05-Apr-93 5.52
05-Apr-94 5.31
05-Apr-95 6.45
05-Apr-96 6.27
05-Apr-97 7.13
05-Apr-98 7.55
05-Apr-99 7.92
05-Apr-00 10.79
05-Apr-01 11.39
05-Apr-02 12.46
05-Apr-03 11.68
05-Apr-04 11.13
05-Apr-05 13.03
05-Apr-06 14.21
05-Apr-07 15.18
05-Apr-08 18.73
05-Apr-09 21.60
05-Apr-10 11.91
05-Apr-11 15.12
05-Apr-12 17.78
05-Apr-13 19.93*
05-Apr-14 20.34
05-Apr-15 21.35
05-Apr-16 21.68
05-Apr-17 24.17
05-Apr-18 27.02
05-Apr-19 27.09*

Over the same period my dividend per income unit has grown by 36%, which is quite a difference. The capital value has grown from £5.16 to £6.03, an increase of 17%.

Certainly less than VUKE. My current yield is 5.26%.

TJH

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#267736

Postby Bouleversee » November 27th, 2019, 4:45 pm

tjh290633 wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:Have you had a look at Tate and Lyle recently, Arb? It seems to be on a bit of a roll following a fallow period and has increased dividends by around 2.5% in each of the past 2 years. What do you think, TJH? I know you also hold.

I have held TATE since 1999, first bought at 392p. Added to in 2000 at 269p, in 2001 at 247p and in 2002 at 352p. In October 2002 it went overweight at 361p and I sold 20%.In 2003 I added more when underweight at 347p then, come 2006, I was overweight again and trimmed on two occasions, in February at 595p and in December at 813p. Became underweight again and topped up in 2007 at 560p and in 2009 at 300p. Now in 2011 it went overweight again and I trimmed back by one-third at 647p. Two more top-ups, in 2014 at 697p and in 2015 at 517p. As you can see there have been ups and downs along the way.

The dividend at the starting price was 21.4p, or 5.5%, but that was complicated by a year end change. 17.8p is a better figure to use as a benchmark. There have been a few years when the dividend has been held, but never cut. Currently it is 29.6p (Final plus interim) and the yield is 4.0% at the price of about 740p. As has been said above, slightly below the market. My IRR has been 13.0%, but on a single share it would have been 3.15% held from the start.

It has done well for me, by taking advantage of the contrarian movements. It has been over 800p on three occasions - 2006, 2013 and 2017.

TJH


I first bought in 1986, since when there have been a scrip issue, conversion of a loan stock, 2 top ups and 2 lots of gifts to my 4 grandchildren with no cgt to pay (still held in bare trusts) but no sales. The adjusted cost of my remaining 3316 shares is 316p per share and the price when I looked earlier today was 742.20p. There have been reasonably good dividends, increasing in most years, so though it hasn't shot the lights out, I consider that a satisfactory performance. No idea what the xirr would be or how it compared with your topping and tailing but with a very disabled and often very sick husband to care for for 22 years, that is irrelevant as it would have been impossible. It was bad enough doing the tax return calculations for the gifting. With a bit of luck, we'll get back to the previous highs as we are not all that far off now.

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Re: Geenking proceeds what next?

#268506

Postby Arborbridge » December 2nd, 2019, 12:19 pm

Update on Greene King cash:

I've have placed a cheap dealing day purchase for the Vanguard ETF, VUKE which will trigger on 10th December.
The amount of capital is enough to be interesting, but only about a quarter of some of my IT holdings such as CTY.
My intention will be to treat this as a stand-alone purchase for comparison with both my HYP and ArbIT (IT basket) but not counted in either of those portfolios. In a few years, we'll see whether I outrun it, or it outruns me as it would have done in the past!

I shall keep a check on its XIRR and dividends in the same way that I do my other holdings.


Arb.


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