The Lemon Fool

Following on from my sale of half of my holding in BATs, I have just sold half of my holding in Imperial Brands. I feel much better for that. Unless I get a sudden urge, I will not sell the remainder of either until next year at this time so that the loss of the dividends is not too drastic. Half of the proceeds has gone into National Grid and it is likely that the other half will go into Primary Health Props.

A man has got to do what a man has got to do.........

Dod

If it makes you happier, that's the right move to make, Dod. I'm still holding on to mine at the moment. Big cuts in dividends might convince me otherwise. That applies to VOD as well.

TJH

tjh290633 wrote:If it makes you happier, that's the right move to make, Dod. I'm still holding on to mine at the moment. Big cuts in dividends might convince me otherwise. That applies to VOD as well.

TJH

As I think I said before, there is more to investing in shares than the dividends. Incidentally I doubt that there is much risk in the near future of any reduction in the dividends. They are I think, likely to remain cash cows for some time to come, but there are the ethics and also the capital values to think about. Shades of HFEL?

Dod

New BATS CEO steps in...plays the honesty card but to what avail? Can he see 30 years down the road? Shades of Looney (BP) and Coupe (Sainsbury) opening mouth and putting their feet in it. He wont' be in-post in 30 years time. If he keeps upsetting the shareholders it will be a short tenure.


Looney on BP and oil prices .."a cash machine at these types of prices”....

Mike Coupe singing "we're in the money!" regarding a tie up with Asda...(the deal fell through ..cue for CEO to Exit Stage Left!).

monabri wrote:New BATS CEO steps in...plays the honesty card but to what avail? Can he see 30 years down the road? Shades of Looney (BP) and Coupe (Sainsbury) opening mouth and putting their feet in it. He wont' be in-post in 30 years time. If he keeps upsetting the shareholders it will be a short tenure.


Looney on BP and oil prices .."a cash machine at these types of prices”....

Mike Coupe singing "we're in the money!" regarding a tie up with Asda...(the deal fell through ..cue for CEO to Exit Stage Left!).

Yes but it is not just that. You do remember that BATs was quoted at over £50 per share at the end of 2017? We income investors have been blinded by the income from the tobacco shares so that we ignore that disastrous capital performance. Imperial has held up better than BAT for some reason, but they are both in a dying industry and I just think that the time has come to get out.

Dod

And just to add to that, I see that I bought a tranche of Imperial in 2014 at £26.14. Selling today at £18.10.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:And just to add to that, I see that I bought a tranche of Imperial in 2014 at £26.14. Selling today at £18.10.

Dod

It's too late? The fall has already happened. Oh to be a good chart watcher - we would both have sold in the autumn of 2022 when this downtrend set in.

Perhaps I'll go back to TA

Arb.

Arborbridge wrote:

Dod101 wrote:And just to add to that, I see that I bought a tranche of Imperial in 2014 at £26.14. Selling today at £18.10.

Dod

It's too late? The fall has already happened. Oh to be a good chart watcher - we would both have sold in the autumn of 2022 when this downtrend set in.

Perhaps I'll go back to TA

Arb.

Obviously the cash which I expect the tobacco companies will continue to throw off has a value and that is bound to help support the share price but we have all been kidding ourselves re the income. As I have said, dearly bought income and that and the ethical side of nicotine selling is more than I now feel comfortable with. I feel almost liberated having decided where I am going with it.

Dod

Dod101 wrote:And just to add to that, I see that I bought a tranche of Imperial in 2014 at £26.14. Selling today at £18.10.

Dod

I have just had a look at mine. BATS first bought at 2203p in 2010, currently 2315p, IRR 6.86% with various buys and sells, 7.85% had I just bought one lot and held. Average cost 2563p.

IMB demerged from Hanson at 375p in 1996. Had I just bought the one lot, the IRR would have been 14.59%. As it was, with many transactions and corporate events along the way, my IRR is 21.23%. I see a purchase at 3130p in 2017. Average cost 532p.

TJH

There's gonna be some M&A action* with fag companies. No ifs no butts. No doubts.

Meanwhile, the December div from Imperial...Oooh, that paid for a few things.

*I don't actually know if there is going to be any M&A action. So don't buy off the back of that statement.

Tedx wrote:There's gonna be some M&A action* with fag companies. No ifs no butts. No doubts.

Meanwhile, the December div from Imperial...Oooh, that paid for a few things.

*I don't actually know if there is going to be any M&A action. So don't buy off the back of that statement.

No doubt the dividends are attractive but they are adding industry and I have never liked their business proposition. Some will be like TJH and have timed buys well. But the st is chance.

Dod

Tedx wrote:There's gonna be some M&A action* with fag companies. No ifs no butts. No doubts.

Meanwhile, the December div from Imperial...Oooh, that paid for a few things.

*I don't actually know if there is going to be any M&A action. So don't buy off the back of that statement.

No spliffs, no butts

Just let the divs roll up. Filter out the rubbish, keep tabs on the good uns. It's a drag, but it won't cost you a packet.

This has become a real fag end of a thread.

bluedonkey wrote:This has become a real fag end of a thread.

Just looking after my own ash

Imperial Brands finally ran out of puff for me today in my ISA.
I still have a minor holding in my SIPP where I can drag a lousy last gasp of dividend.

midgesgalore

Seems like you're making some savvy financial decisions there. Diversifying your investments can be a smart move for sure, helps spread out the risk. Oh, and if you're up for trying something new, maybe checking out Crave Vape could be interesting, a bit of a change from the usual.

midgesgalore wrote:Imperial Brands finally ran out of puff for me today in my ISA.
I still have a minor holding in my SIPP where I can drag a lousy last gasp of dividend.

midgesgalore

Why today? What happened? Why not wait for the half-year report next Wednesday?

Adrian

AJC5001 wrote:

midgesgalore wrote:Imperial Brands finally ran out of puff for me today in my ISA.
I still have a minor holding in my SIPP where I can drag a lousy last gasp of dividend.

midgesgalore

Why today? What happened? Why not wait for the half-year report next Wednesday?

Adrian

Hi Adrian
That post was back in January. Imperial Brands report Q2 results on Wednesday, May 18th - 3 months later.

More a factor in my mind than me having an axe to grind on ethics or the desire to discuss futher :-
My reason for selling was based on a cull of loss making shares.
My first purchase was in Oct. 2013 at £22.53.
Further top-ups were all made at a higher price.
The yield was very good so long as the price was increasing with my last purchase - up to May 2017 at £36.34 - and also volatile.
I also remember, around then, other Tobacco companies were bought over at a good incentive for shareholders - Gallagher being one. I would have willingly sold everything around then if an offer was made for what is now Imperial Brands (it might have been called Imperial Tobacco back then). You can tell the company was thinking about their name and, avoiding headline negative sentiment, swapping Tobacco for Brands might have been a cosmetic management of their involvement in the tobacco industry.

In June 2020 their 1st quarter dividend introduced a, roughly, 33% reduction in dividend where it has never caught up since. The 2020 March 4th quarter dividend reached 72.01p / share. March 2024, 4th quarter dividend has now reached 51.82p / share.

Also with the increasing government taxes on tobacco and in the UK more recently with tighter regulations on their products I had enough already.
Since Imperial Brands (IMB) announced a recent serious share re-purchase program I waited and finally sold at £18.49 share price. More market volatility has kept the share price around this level.

All - in - all I came out overall with a 10% gain (or a loss in real terms considering inflation) and a massive decline in positive sentiment towards the company.

I have no axe to grind here. That's my story and I'm just recounting my experience.

midgesgalore

The baccies still make up 10% of my portfolio. Although I haven't sold any (indeed, still added a few) this is lower than its been in the past I've been concentrating my buys in other areas. IMB has been the better performer for me as I built my core positions between 2019-2022, but happy to continue holding both.

Maybe the bottom is already in? Note that BATS have recently restarted their buybacks and IMB's have been ongoing - perhaps helping hold up the shareprice better.

Analysts still have pencilled in annualised 4% growth for BATS and 8% growth for IMB over the next 5 years - potential for huge amounts of cash to be return through dividends and buyback