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Which is the best small hatchback?

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sarahjo
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Which is the best small hatchback?

#145377

Postby sarahjo » June 13th, 2018, 8:33 am

Hey, people, I am looking for a small hatchback. Options I have are KIA RIO and Toyota Yaris.
Any other option that you people feel should be considered.

Finance is not an issue.

tjh290633
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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145396

Postby tjh290633 » June 13th, 2018, 9:48 am

You might like to look at the Suzuki range. We have had three, Wagon R+, Splash and SX4. The last two are still owned, and have been very reliable.

They are having special offers on some of the current models, but not the Celerio.

TJH

Watis
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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145401

Postby Watis » June 13th, 2018, 10:15 am

I have a Yaris (from new) and have been very pleased with it. I went for the 1.33 petrol engine, £30 a year road tax and better than 50 mpg.

Would consider another one - possibly the hybrid - if I ever need to replace it.

HTH,

Watis

supremetwo
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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145406

Postby supremetwo » June 13th, 2018, 10:45 am

VW Polo.

If you want an auto, the 7 speed DSG gearbox is fantastic.

If you want a used model, the 1.4 petrol Polo Match DSG is superb.

bungeejumper
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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145408

Postby bungeejumper » June 13th, 2018, 11:03 am

Watis wrote:I have a Yaris (from new) and have been very pleased with it. I went for the 1.33 petrol engine, £30 a year road tax and better than 50 mpg.

Unfortunately I think the 1.33 engine has just been dropped. (Together with everything else except the 1.0 litre and the hybrid.) Shame - it was a nice engine and would make a great nearly-new buy.

Yarises, Polos, small Kias/Hyundais etc are all good cars. (Although the Polo is showing its age a bit these days.) What they'd all have to prove to me is that they were better than the Ford Fiesta, which is still the car to beat IMHO. Practical, simple and surprisingly spacious. Oh, and fun.

BJ

Watis
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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145409

Postby Watis » June 13th, 2018, 11:10 am

bungeejumper wrote:
Watis wrote:I have a Yaris (from new) and have been very pleased with it. I went for the 1.33 petrol engine, £30 a year road tax and better than 50 mpg.

Unfortunately I think the 1.33 engine has just been dropped. (Together with everything else except the 1.0 litre and the hybrid.) Shame - it was a nice engine and would make a great nearly-new buy.

Yarises, Polos, small Kias/Hyundais etc are all good cars. (Although the Polo is showing its age a bit these days.) What they'd all have to prove to me is that they were better than the Ford Fiesta, which is still the car to beat IMHO. Practical, simple and surprisingly spacious. Oh, and fun.

BJ


I was lent a 1.0 litre Yaris as a courtesy car when mine was in for something. I found it to be slow, rough and noisy compared to the 1.33.

Watis

BT63
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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145414

Postby BT63 » June 13th, 2018, 11:21 am

Most small cars are not small anymore; each updated model grows a few centimetres each year.

I recently went back to running a very small car alongside my large family car. I wanted something small enough to easily fit in my garage.

I tried just about all the small hatches out there, quite a few being too small for me (I'm 6ft+) and my shortlist, in alphabet order, ended up being Suzuki Celerio, Vauxhall Viva or Volkswagen Up.

However, to get even a full set of airbags in the Suzuki you have to go up to at least SZ3 trim level.

Neither the Celerio nor Up have steering wheel controls which I find very useful, although I understand that some top-of-the-range Up variants are now being built with them.

It also bothered me a little that the Celerio's engine is quite high compression (12x compared to European cars that are around 10.5x) and most likely the Celerio was designed to be at its best with 100-octane premium fuel which is the standard in Japan, probably relying on its knock sensor to retard the engine when using UK 95-octane fuel.
Certainly on test drive the Celerio's engine felt and sounded strained (unlikely to have been filled with premium fuel) although it drove well enough.

The Viva requires a more careful and relaxed gearchange. It feels as if it has a big heavy flywheel which makes it clumsy and jerky if you try to hustle it along in the modern driving style, but the flipside is that it makes low-speed manoeuvring very easy because the flywheel momentum means you can use just the clutch and not stall it.
My wife has had a Viva of her own for a couple of years for town driving and has found it very useful on ice and snow to be able to drive it slowly without using accelerator which would otherwise spin the wheels. My wife won't let me drive hers because she spec'd hers in an unusual colour with several optional extras including heated steering wheel and seats which are rare luxuries in town cars.

In the end, I chose a Viva.

If I had to go up a size, the previous generation Suzuki Swift (pre-2017) is a decent car to drive although internal space is not much better than the really small town cars. It's slightly smaller than cars such as Fiesta/Corsa/Polo.

RececaDron
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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145478

Postby RececaDron » June 13th, 2018, 6:45 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Yarises, Polos, small Kias/Hyundais etc are all good cars. (Although the Polo is showing its age a bit these days.) What they'd all have to prove to me is that they were better than the Ford Fiesta, which is still the car to beat IMHO. Practical, simple and surprisingly spacious. Oh, and fun.


Fiesta is the class-leader. Ride quality and handling are ludicrously good. Newest variant now exudes quality inside too.

Ecoboost 3-cylinder (half a six) turbo sounds pretty nice, sips fuel and in 125 guise, is pretty swift.

Loads available second hand from dealers and car supermarkets

Benchmark anything else against one of these.

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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145492

Postby xeny » June 13th, 2018, 7:14 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Unfortunately I think the 1.33 engine has just been dropped. (Together with everything else except the 1.0 litre and the hybrid.) Shame - it was a nice engine and would make a great nearly-new buy.


Looking at https://www.toyota.co.uk/new-cars/yaris/index/prices it is listed (I think it was only introduced early last year) - I think the engine options partially depend on trim level selected.

Certainly if I was doing a lot of motorway miles in a hilly area, I'd go for the 1.5 - the 1.33 is (for me at least) annoyingly not quite enough if you encounter a decent hill at motorway speeds - other than that it's very satisfactory. The only other thing I could fault the car on is that the steering is very short of "feel", but if you're after a motoring appliance, that's probably not an issue.

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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145497

Postby bungeejumper » June 13th, 2018, 7:45 pm

xeny wrote:Certainly if I was doing a lot of motorway miles in a hilly area, I'd go for the 1.5 - the 1.33 is (for me at least) annoyingly not quite enough if you encounter a decent hill at motorway speeds - other than that it's very satisfactory. The only other thing I could fault the car on is that the steering is very short of "feel", but if you're after a motoring appliance, that's probably not an issue.

If I were doing a lot of motorway miles on hills I'd agree with you. But then, I probably wouldn't be looking for a small car anyway. :D My sister found that 50 miles a day on the (fairly flat) M1 was more than she really wanted to do in her 1.4 Polo, although my wife's nearly identical Polo would go up the north face of the Eiger in third, or in fourth on a good day. Agree, though, that some of these turbocharged tiddler engines are probably better at revving up a speed on the flat than at keeping it going on a gradient. That wouldn't be an issue if motorway usage was likely to be the exception rather than the rule.

Agree that Toyotas in general are not known for their 'enthusiastic' handling, although my Toyota Auris has been a lot more purposeful and 'feely' since I fitted Michelin Primacy 4s all round. The reason I like the car is that it's built like it was meant to last. And that a five year warranty says they meant it to stay that way. ;)

BJ

BT63
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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145511

Postby BT63 » June 13th, 2018, 9:06 pm

RececaDron wrote:
bungeejumper wrote:Yarises, Polos, small Kias/Hyundais etc are all good cars. (Although the Polo is showing its age a bit these days.) What they'd all have to prove to me is that they were better than the Ford Fiesta, which is still the car to beat IMHO. Practical, simple and surprisingly spacious. Oh, and fun.


Fiesta is the class-leader. Ride quality and handling are ludicrously good. Newest variant now exudes quality inside too.

Ecoboost 3-cylinder (half a six) turbo sounds pretty nice, sips fuel and in 125 guise, is pretty swift.

Loads available second hand from dealers and car supermarkets

Benchmark anything else against one of these.


Interestingly, I'm more cramped in a Fiesta or Polo than in the Celerio/Viva/Up mentioned earlier. Suzuki and Vauxhall in particular seem to make cars that are adaptable to a very wide range of driver body shapes and sizes. Unfortunately most people can't see past the badge.

For some time, Honest John has been highlighting just how different the claimed and actual mpg are for many downsized+turbocharged engines - some are now only achieving around two-thirds of the claimed mpg whereas most naturally aspirated engines are still getting close to their claimed mpg.
There also seem to be more than a fair share of reports of total engine failure at modest mileages in Ecoboosts (and possibly the same trend with Vauxhall's equivalent) with some Fords now on their third engine.

For a small car, I would stay simple and naturally aspirated unless performance is required.

DrFfybes
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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145518

Postby DrFfybes » June 13th, 2018, 10:25 pm

We have an i20 as a pool car at work.

Very economical at about 50 mpg on a run, enough space for 2 and gear for site with the seats down, and robust enough to withstand a bunch of engineers chucking stuff in the back and abusing it.

I went out again in it a couple of weeks ago. On the way back I noticed it had a 'KIA' badge on the steering wheel. When unloading I realised it said C'eed on the back, and discovered they'd changed it about a month earlier.

It drove the same (although the power steering was ridiculously light at parking speeds, not sure I remember it from the i20) and still did thick end of 50mpg average around Devon roads.

The moral of this is that really just choose the one that has the toys you want. Cars have become white goods, in terms of looks, drive, performance, economy, etc there's very little between them.

Paul

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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145533

Postby xeny » June 14th, 2018, 7:26 am

Remember though that Kia Motors and Hyundai Motor Company are "heavily intertwined" - quoting wikipedia

" As of December 2015, the Kia Motor Corporation is minority owned by Hyundai, which owns a 33.88% stake valued at just over US$6 billion. Kia in turn is a minority owner of more than twenty Hyundai subsidiaries ranging from 4.9% up to 45.37%, totaling more than US$8.3 billion."

so there's probably even more in common than there might be between two other less related brands.

RececaDron
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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145567

Postby RececaDron » June 14th, 2018, 10:43 am

BT63 wrote:Interestingly, I'm more cramped in a Fiesta or Polo than in the Celerio/Viva/Up mentioned earlier.

For some time, Honest John has been highlighting just how different the claimed and actual mpg are for many downsized+turbocharged engines - some are now only achieving around two-thirds of the claimed mpg whereas most naturally aspirated engines are still getting close to their claimed mpg.
There also seem to be more than a fair share of reports of total engine failure at modest mileages in Ecoboosts (and possibly the same trend with Vauxhall's equivalent) with some Fords now on their third engine.

For a small car, I would stay simple and naturally aspirated unless performance is required.


Bizzare re the cramped comment: at well over 1.9m height a Fiesta fits me well to drive - bar the length of the seat cushion being a bit short, which is only to be expected since it's not an actual tardis...

I'd take the turbo anecdotals with a pinch of salt. I used to read similar things about VW DSG boxes yet mine have been faultless and superb to use.

Fair enough about the performance comment: the Ecoboost 125 has zero road tax but has the grunt to mix it on the motorway (or the steepest hills) with everyone else, and with a ride quality that seems improbable for a small car. But if the car won't be used for regular longer motorway-type journeys, then little point in paying up for it or the mechanical complexity that provides it.

It all comes down to what you're going to use it for. Match your car to your needs, which should include practical stuff like ease of servicing and emotive stuff like what you actually like the look of. The OP didn't mention the use-cases or any other requirements, just that it was to be a small hatch!

BT63
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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145620

Postby BT63 » June 14th, 2018, 2:56 pm

RececaDron wrote:Bizzare re the cramped comment: at well over 1.9m height a Fiesta fits me well to drive


My forehead bumps the edge of the sun visor.
In a head-on collision I would more than likely be scalped by the sun visor then smash my forehead through the top of the windscreen before a Fiesta's airbag would be able to do anything to cushion my forward lurch.

But everybody has different bodily proportions.

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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145631

Postby redsturgeon » June 14th, 2018, 3:53 pm

BT63 wrote:
RececaDron wrote:Bizzare re the cramped comment: at well over 1.9m height a Fiesta fits me well to drive


My forehead bumps the edge of the sun visor.
In a head-on collision I would more than likely be scalped by the sun visor then smash my forehead through the top of the windscreen before a Fiesta's airbag would be able to do anything to cushion my forward lurch.

But everybody has different bodily proportions.


Which Fiesta are we talking about?

I have been driving my daughter's 2013 Fiesta and I am 6ft 3, I find it very spacious with plenty of room between my head and the sun visor.

John

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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145636

Postby Slarti » June 14th, 2018, 4:43 pm

sarahjo wrote:Hey, people, I am looking for a small hatchback. Options I have are KIA RIO and Toyota Yaris.
Any other option that you people feel should be considered.

Finance is not an issue.



As a family we are on our 3rd and 4th Toyotas and just love the reliability.

I have an Avensis and Mrs S has a Yaris, both automatic. The only thing I would say is, if you are going for an automatic, make sure that it is a CVT one and not one that does the changes in a normal box for you - the name of which escapes me. The Yaris has that type of box and you can feel the changes and there is no P for park setting.

But for a small car it has impressive load carrying, easy access and can take 5 adults, as long as the ones in the back are not to big :)

If, for some reason we had to change our cars, we would be looking for Toyotas before anything else.

Slarti

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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145651

Postby PinkDalek » June 14th, 2018, 5:46 pm

redsturgeon wrote:Which Fiesta are we talking about?

I have been driving my daughter's 2013 Fiesta and I am 6ft 3, I find it very spacious with plenty of room between my head and the sun visor.

John


I'd be careful there. The local Police may find a 6ft 3 inches person driving a Fiesta somewhat strange and might pull you over, under some pretext or other. If only to see how spacious they are. ;)

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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145654

Postby redsturgeon » June 14th, 2018, 5:53 pm

PinkDalek wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:Which Fiesta are we talking about?

I have been driving my daughter's 2013 Fiesta and I am 6ft 3, I find it very spacious with plenty of room between my head and the sun visor.

John


I'd be careful there. The local Police may find a 6ft 3 inches person driving a Fiesta somewhat strange and might pull you over, under some pretext or other. If only to see how spacious they are. ;)


That probably explains a lot! :)

John

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Re: Which is the best small hatchback?

#145840

Postby tsr2 » June 15th, 2018, 1:12 pm

BT63 wrote:Interestingly, I'm more cramped in a Fiesta or Polo than in the Celerio/Viva/Up mentioned earlier.


Have you looked at a B-Max? I believe it's mechanically very similar to a Fiesta, but different shape.

Oh, and I'm a little surprised I've seen no mention of the Honda Jazz.


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