A car to learn on

[bungeejumper]

But there tends to be a lot of machismo and hair-shirt about driving manuals which explains why there are still so many out there despite automatics being clearly superior since the mid '00s.

Maybe I've just been driving the wrong autos, then? My recent experience of a Range Rover Evoque with DSG was just as lumpy, erratic, lurchy and unpredictable as the 2003 Vauxhall which had been my last auto drive. If I'm waiting at a busy rush-hour roundabout and a gap appears and I decide to go for it, I really don't want it to count to thirteen and cough, and then give me half the torque I was expecting. Not with a bunch of BMWs and Audis bearing down on me. Given the choice, I'd rather be in charge of my revs and my choice of gear, thanks. Nothing particularly macho about that.

I've never driven a CVT, but they tell me that they're smoother but a bit noisy at speed. Oh well, I suppose it'll all be in the past when we're all driving EVs?

BJ

[tjh290633]

Mazda 2
https://youtu.be/IlsrE8sUk9I?t=550 - review from a driving instructor

I do think learning on a manual makes you a better driver, and the Mazda 2 makes it easy enough that it wont require a bunch of extra lessons.

You can easily find a used one in decent condition for under £10K

In my view it is essential that they have the qualification to drive a manual vehicle. They can drive automatics if they wish once they have their licence, but the ability to use a manual gearbox is vital.

TJH

[Newroad]

Hi Lanark.

What size engine for the Mazda 2 - a 1.5l?

The reason I ask is that engine size seems to have a significant effect on insurance, but that is only my anecdotal experience.

Regards, Newroad

[didds]

Points of Order

The Nemo is a van/mpv with 5 seats, but the rear ones are fully removable. But a standard 2seat van is an idea..

interestnig - my son's nemo never came with any "rear" seats and has a boarded out floor with no obvious seat fixings. its also got no rear windows or side windows so any passengers in the rear would be in a pretty gloomy place

didds

[didds]

The dreaded Bluetooth is pretty essential now for hands free calls as well as music streaming. So safety, legality and less moaning.

cheap BT speaker, job done.

[airbus330]

Points of Order

The Nemo is a van/mpv with 5 seats, but the rear ones are fully removable. But a standard 2seat van is an idea..

interestnig - my son's nemo never came with any "rear" seats and has a boarded out floor with no obvious seat fixings. its also got no rear windows or side windows so any passengers in the rear would be in a pretty gloomy place

didds

Re. BT. TBH even my daughters 13yr old Pug 207 has usable BT. Its less about the music and more about the phone calls. Although, to be fair, most young peeps shun voice for text. You have to go a bit more modern to get speech recognition and msg reading.

[Urbandreamer]

Not sure that car specifications matter as much as insurance.

However my son recently passed his test in my old i30.

No bluetooth. No built in sat nav. Electric windows that only the driver can control (faulty).

I did have to buy a stick on rear view mirror for the test. He had been practicing with me relying upon ESP to yell "watch out".

Insurance though was a NOT cheap.

Now that he has passed, I can consider replacing the car. Electric or hybrids these days are all automatic.

[didds]

[

[stevensfo]

Never heard of the Nemo before, but the one with 4 side windows looks great. I've always been fussy about visibilty and want as much glass as possible. My mum's Ford Focus was sooo easy to drive and I could see everything, unlike the horrible Astra I once rented that had a tiny rear window.

It's news to me that so many new drivers have accidents in the first year. I wonder if it's because they're driving 'too' safely and surprising other drivers?

With the ridiculous number of cars on the road now, it must be harder to learn today than at any other time.

Steve

[Urbandreamer]

Never heard of the Nemo before, but the one with 4 side windows looks great. I've always been fussy about visibilty and want as much glass as possible. My mum's Ford Focus was sooo easy to drive and I could see everything, unlike the horrible Astra I once rented that had a tiny rear window.

It's news to me that so many new drivers have accidents in the first year. I wonder if it's because they're driving 'too' safely and surprising other drivers?

With the ridiculous number of cars on the road now, it must be harder to learn today than at any other time.

Steve

If you think about your 3'ed sentence, you might get a clue as to the answer to your following question/speculation.

Most new drivers have only driven one car, and not the car that they then drive after the test. That's the nature of having a professional teach you in a car that they supply.

While I'm a fan of professional lessons I also think practice with a family member makes a huge difference. It's not just the extra hours, it's the different car.

[stevensfo]

Never heard of the Nemo before, but the one with 4 side windows looks great. I've always been fussy about visibilty and want as much glass as possible. My mum's Ford Focus was sooo easy to drive and I could see everything, unlike the horrible Astra I once rented that had a tiny rear window.

It's news to me that so many new drivers have accidents in the first year. I wonder if it's because they're driving 'too' safely and surprising other drivers?

With the ridiculous number of cars on the road now, it must be harder to learn today than at any other time.

Steve

If you think about your 3'ed sentence, you might get a clue as to the answer to your following question/speculation.

Most new drivers have only driven one car, and not the car that they then drive after the test. That's the nature of having a professional teach you in a car that they supply.

While I'm a fan of professional lessons I also think practice with a family member makes a huge difference. It's not just the extra hours, it's the different car.

If you think about your 3'ed sentence, you might get a clue as to the answer to your following question/speculation.

Fair point!

Steve

PS In my first year of driving, I arrived in Paris, early evening, went through some traffic lights and approached what looked like a large car park. Seconds later, I realised that it was a very big roundabout and about a zillion cars were coming round it, very fast. No GPS in those days and I probably went round it at least three times while my heart slowed down and gave me chance to think about what to do next. Don't think I had constipation for a while!

[bungeejumper]

While I'm a fan of professional lessons I also think practice with a family member makes a huge difference. It's not just the extra hours, it's the different car.

Practice with a family member? Huh, I was failed in my first test (1969) because my old dad had taught me to block shift down from fourth to second, and the examiner didn't approve of the practice. I would have felt quite hard done by, but fortunately I'd given the examiner several other excuses reasons to fail me, so I wasn't in a position to quibble.

The main problem I had with driving my dad's Mk1 Cortina was that my mum was in the back seat as well, and the two of them kept on disagreeing about what they wanted me to do and where they wanted me to go. On one memorable occasion, the wall of contradictory instructions got so bad that I nearly hit a bus. Gathering my frazzled wits, I pulled the car over to the side of the road, stopped the engine and told them quietly that they'd both failed. Things got a little easier after that.

Practising in your instructor's car is all very well as long as he's actually got the car. Two days before I was due to take my third and final test, one of his pupils wrote off his Mk2 Escort (rear wheel drive) and I had to take the test instead in a Mini which required a completely different approach to cornering. But hey, it did at least have the advantage that you could see the corners of the car! With the Escort, lining up your reverse turn had been achieved with the discreet aid of two pieces of tape on the rooflining which he hoped the examiner wouldn't spot. This was with the British School of Motoring, by the way, not some suburban privateer. I don't imagine it would happen these days?

BJ

[Breelander]

...Any thoughts or recommendations, with reliability and insurance costs being key factors?

For insurance....

Admiral's pricing team has calculated the 10 cheapest cars to insure for learner drivers with a provisional licence and aged 25 or under.

https://www.admiral.com/magazine/guides ... -to-insure

[stevensfo]

While I'm a fan of professional lessons I also think practice with a family member makes a huge difference. It's not just the extra hours, it's the different car.

Practice with a family member? Huh, I was failed in my first test (1969) because my old dad had taught me to block shift down from fourth to second, and the examiner didn't approve of the practice. I would have felt quite hard done by, but fortunately I'd given the examiner several other excuses reasons to fail me, so I wasn't in a position to quibble.

The main problem I had with driving my dad's Mk1 Cortina was that my mum was in the back seat as well, and the two of them kept on disagreeing about what they wanted me to do and where they wanted me to go. On one memorable occasion, the wall of contradictory instructions got so bad that I nearly hit a bus. Gathering my frazzled wits, I pulled the car over to the side of the road, stopped the engine and told them quietly that they'd both failed. Things got a little easier after that.

Practising in your instructor's car is all very well as long as he's actually got the car. Two days before I was due to take my third and final test, one of his pupils wrote off his Mk2 Escort (rear wheel drive) and I had to take the test instead in a Mini which required a completely different approach to cornering. But hey, it did at least have the advantage that you could see the corners of the car! With the Escort, lining up your reverse turn had been achieved with the discreet aid of two pieces of tape on the rooflining which he hoped the examiner wouldn't spot. This was with the British School of Motoring, by the way, not some suburban privateer. I don't imagine it would happen these days?

BJ

I had driving lessons over about 3 years before and during my student years, on and off whenever I could. Driving different cars was definitely a huge advantage. I passed - with BSM.the first time in Liverpool!

Re. the pieces of tape, I think that the modern side mirrors perform this function. Well, maybe?

Our two sons are chalk and cheese. The eldest is a very confident driver.

The youngest has a car but hasn't got a licence yet. He's introvert, anxious, scared of driving without clear instructions. What p*sses me off is the fact that he's a good driver but just lacks confidence!

Steve

[DrFfybes]

While I'm a fan of professional lessons I also think practice with a family member makes a huge difference.

Oh they do, in the summer I was learning from my parents those long summer evenings just flew by.

Usually in an awkward silence.

Paul

[bungeejumper]

I had driving lessons over about 3 years before and during my student years, on and off whenever I could. Driving different cars was definitely a huge advantage. I passed - with BSM.the first time in Liverpool!

I did it slightly differently. After my second fail I was so disgusted with myself that I threw away the car keys and got back on my motorbike. And didn't get back behind the wheel for eight years - although that was also partly because I was skint.

By that stage I had ten years of city-centre biking under my belt, and more observation, road-reading and urban survival skills than a car driver is likely to acquire in a lifetime. Nailed my car test in Brum after eight top-up lessons. Much to the chagrin of my BSM instructor, who had been hoping to earn more from me. What with having his best car wrecked and all.

BJ

[Mike88]

I taught my son on a beat up Vauxhall Corsa. It was ultra reliable with no issues for the 3 years we kept it. Didn't even bother to have it serviced and we sold it for the price we paid to buy it. As a result of that car my wife bought a Vauxhall Astra. Nothing went wrong with it in the seven years we kept it and again no money was spent on maintenance. We gave it to our son who drove it for a further 3 years but we did get it serviced including new brakes before we handed it over. My wife then bought a Vauxhall Corsa and again nothing went wrong with it and again my son was given it and used it daily for the years he was in medical school as a mature student. Basically the Vauxhall cars we have owned were cheap and cheerful and very very reliable.

[redsturgeon]

I taught both my kids to drive, one in a Ford Ka and one in a Ford Fiesta. I taught them the basics of car control then they had some profesional lessons to learn what was required to pass the test and be taught the actual test routes.

They both passed first time and I felt we had some really good quality time together bonding, although perhaps I should ask them for their opinions on the time spent having read Dr Ffybes' thoughts.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

I taught both my kids to drive, one in a Ford Ka and one in a Ford Fiesta. I taught them the basics of car control then they had some profesional lessons to learn what was required to pass the test and be taught the actual test routes.

They both passed first time and I felt we had some really good quality time together bonding, although perhaps I should ask them for their opinions on the time spent having read Dr Ffybes' thoughts.

I'll drop my daughter off and leave her with you for a week. Pay to be negotiated . I wish you good luck . My badness

Where did you find quiet roads?

AiY(D)

[redsturgeon]

I taught both my kids to drive, one in a Ford Ka and one in a Ford Fiesta. I taught them the basics of car control then they had some profesional lessons to learn what was required to pass the test and be taught the actual test routes.

They both passed first time and I felt we had some really good quality time together bonding, although perhaps I should ask them for their opinions on the time spent having read Dr Ffybes' thoughts.

I'll drop my daughter off and leave her with you for a week. Pay to be negotiated . I wish you good luck . My badness

Where did you find quiet roads?

AiY(D)

There is a large park and ride near me that after 6pm is practically empty and has a perimeter road with junctions and turns to practise on. Also all you need for practising reversing into parking spots and three point turns. So great for teach steering, clutch control and gear selection.

I have found that children usually behave a lot better with other adults than their parents.