The Lemon Fool

scotview wrote:Here's the thing. isn't this just something that the Wests' press is conjuring up. To me it seems that most of you on here have taken it hook line and, very heavy, sinker.

Are you lot not staring in the face of a (Chinese/Eastern) society that is far, far above anything we in the west can achieve or produce.

Because they have drive, intellect, learning ability, seek peace and are inscrutably humble.

Just saying.

Come the revolution, your browser history will not save you.

9873210 wrote:
Come the revolution, your browser history will not save you.

Well, what exactly do you believe ?? Lay it out like I do. Sum it up in a few lines of concise text. Oh aye, and don't be snide, I'm not.

You can use googlemaps without having location or data switched on. Just download the maps to your phone. It will work just fine, but without live traffic data. Not sure about Applemaps though.

Redmires wrote:You can use googlemaps without having location or data switched on. Just download the maps to your phone. It will work just fine, but without live traffic data. Not sure about Applemaps though.

Silly me. You need location 'on' but if you have data 'off' then you're location won't be shared with anyone, including Silicon Valley or China.

scotview wrote:Here's the thing. isn't this just something that the Wests' press is conjuring up. To me it seems that most of you on here have taken it hook line and, very heavy, sinker.

Are you lot not staring in the face of a (Chinese/Eastern) society that is far, far above anything we in the west can achieve or produce.

Because they have drive, intellect, learning ability, seek peace and are inscrutably humble.

Just saying.

I've found their developers not very good at handling daylight savings code though; sometime to do with not experiencing it, and just having a single time zone.
Which is probably no worse really than the half hour zone nutjobs though

Redmires wrote:

Redmires wrote:You can use googlemaps without having location or data switched on. Just download the maps to your phone. It will work just fine, but without live traffic data. Not sure about Applemaps though.

Silly me. You need location 'on' but if you have data 'off' then you're location won't be shared with anyone, including Silicon Valley or China.

Of course the paranoid might assume it will upload your location history once it's back online (depending on settings).

Scott.

swill453 wrote:

Redmires wrote:
Silly me. You need location 'on' but if you have data 'off' then you're location won't be shared with anyone, including Silicon Valley or China.

Of course the paranoid might assume it will upload your location history once it's back online (depending on settings).

Scott.

Yes

swill453 wrote:Of course the paranoid might assume it will upload your location history once it's back online (depending on settings).

I'd be surprised if it didn't. I'm of the opinion that all the data on my phone is collected, once harvested is collated and then sold or stored until it can be sold while at risk of being stolen.

Redmires wrote:

Redmires wrote:You can use googlemaps without having location or data switched on. Just download the maps to your phone. It will work just fine, but without live traffic data. Not sure about Applemaps though.

Silly me. You need location 'on' but if you have data 'off' then you're location won't be shared with anyone, including Silicon Valley or China.

Sure about that? You can still be located by the mobile phone signal. I have one phone with no mobile data included and Location switched off, and it still lets me know when I've arrived in another country, from the phone masts. I believe that a phone can be located more precisely by the phone company looking at the relative strength of mast signals received by the phone.

Seeing how Vodafone operates, I wouldn't put it past them to sell all this data to the highest bidder, or maybe it's taken from them anyway.

Any privacy we have disappeared many years ago.

Steve ... off to buy a bigger aluminium hat.

Imbiber wrote:

swill453 wrote:Of course the paranoid might assume it will upload your location history once it's back online (depending on settings).

Yes

Possibly O/T, but I'm reminded of the story about how the Strava running app gave away the location of a US military base in Afghanistan that was supposed to be secret. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... army-bases.

Fortunately, though, that was friendly fire from a solid all-American company. It's a good job the Chinese aren't that intelligent, isn't it?

BJ

In a different sort of shock, it has been noted in the Grauniad that [ih]ybrid and electric cars are more likely to strike pedestrians than petrol or diesel vehicles, particularly in towns and cities, according to an analysis of British road traffic accidents. Data from 32bn miles of battery-powered car travel and 3tn miles of petrol and diesel car trips showed that mile-for-mile electric and hybrid cars were twice as likely to hit pedestrians than fossil fuel-powered cars, and three times more likely to do so in urban areas.[/i]
:o

No great surprise - a neighbour up the road has more than once nearly run me over in his sneaky electric trolley.

In Blade Runner (1982), the EVs made a musical note when running. It has been blatantly obvious that such is necessary, so why is that the orforities who are so fond of interfering in car design, have not required it?

V8

88V8 wrote:In a different sort of shock, it has been noted in the Grauniad that [ih]ybrid and electric cars are more likely to strike pedestrians than petrol or diesel vehicles, particularly in towns and cities, according to an analysis of British road traffic accidents. Data from 32bn miles of battery-powered car travel and 3tn miles of petrol and diesel car trips showed that mile-for-mile electric and hybrid cars were twice as likely to hit pedestrians than fossil fuel-powered cars, and three times more likely to do so in urban areas.[/i]
:o

No great surprise - a neighbour up the road has more than once nearly run me over in his sneaky electric trolley.

In Blade Runner (1982), the EVs made a musical note when running. It has been blatantly obvious that such is necessary, so why is that the orforities who are so fond of interfering in car design, have not required it?

V8

But they have required it - EVs make a noise at 20mph or less and quite honestly, I have been nearly caught out by ICEs in car parks which can be quieter than EVs. No one complains about them.

Arborbridge wrote:But they have required it - EVs make a noise at 20mph or less and quite honestly, I have been nearly caught out by ICEs in car parks which can be quieter than EVs. No one complains about them.

I occasionally have to give an extra little rev in car parks when pedestrians are just dawdling in front of me and they turn surprised to see a car, move out the way apologetically. I have ICE.

88V8 wrote:
In Blade Runner (1982), the EVs made a musical note when running. It has been blatantly obvious that such is necessary, so why is that the orforities who are so fond of interfering in car design, have not required it?

V8

I've mentioned this before, but the noise should be user Configurable.

I'm torn between whether I'd rather have a steam train, or hooves.

Arborbridge wrote:But they have required it - EVs make a noise at 20mph or less and quite honestly, I have been nearly caught out by ICEs in car parks which can be quieter than EVs. No one complains about them.

No they don't! I regularly walk along the single-track country lane that leads to a posh private school, and I've lost count of the times that I've had EVs coming up behind me in total silence. Not even tyre noise, although some will make a very faint whirring noise. (Can they switch the sound off? It seems like they do.) And they're nearly always doing below 20 mph - as indeed, they ought to, since it's a 10 mph road.

But actually, what worries me more is the number of times I've had to fling myself against the wall because some oncoming driver is heading straight at me and has made no attempt to pull out a bit, so as to give this poor pedestrian a bit of safety room. A potentially terminal experience.

I'd put it down to inattention, but in many cases I suspect that the drivers might be stabbing their fingers at a touchscreen as they come round the bends, instead of looking where they're going? Maybe they're checking up on their WhatsApps, or maybe they're trying to turn down the music? Or text the tennis coach and tell him to warm up the hot tub?

Either way, your focal length at 20 inches is different from your focal length at a normal road distance, and depending on your your specs prescription, you probably can't do both at once. Given the choice, my money would be on the driver who's looking through the windscreen, not at the lower middle of his/her dashboard. Harrumph. Should we really be surprised that EV drivers collide with more other road users?

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:But they have required it - EVs make a noise at 20mph or less and quite honestly, I have been nearly caught out by ICEs in car parks which can be quieter than EVs. No one complains about them.

No they don't! I regularly walk along the single-track country lane that leads to a posh private school, and I've lost count of the times that I've had EVs coming up behind me in total silence. Not even tyre noise, although some will make a very faint whirring noise. (Can they switch the sound off? It seems like they do.) And they're nearly always doing below 20 mph - as indeed, they ought to, since it's a 10 mph road.

But actually, what worries me more is the number of times I've had to fling myself against the wall because some oncoming driver is heading straight at me and has made no attempt to pull out a bit, so as to give this poor pedestrian a bit of safety room. A potentially terminal experience.

I'd put it down to inattention, but in many cases I suspect that the drivers might be stabbing their fingers at a touchscreen as they come round the bends, instead of looking where they're going? Maybe they're checking up on their WhatsApps, or maybe they're trying to turn down the music? Or text the tennis coach and tell him to warm up the hot tub?

Either way, your focal length at 20 inches is different from your focal length at a normal road distance, and depending on your your specs prescription, you probably can't do both at once. Given the choice, my money would be on the driver who's looking through the windscreen, not at the lower middle of his/her dashboard. Harrumph. Should we really be surprised that EV drivers collide with more other road users?

BJ

The touchscreen thing is common to many cars now, unfortunately - I don't like it either, though I can't see why any driver should be stabbing their finger coming round a bend. I think you are making an invalid point.


As regards the noise - it is a legal requirement (as I understand it) and it certainly cannot be switched off. It is possible, though I don't know for sure, that the rules about sound generating came into place in the past few years. Somewhat amusing that you think the speed of these cars must be under 20mph because the limit is 10mph. Anyhow, I hear plenty of EVs around our way and the noise is both obvious and characteristic- I've also been passed by cars I was covinced were silent EVs but turned out be ICE cars drifting along.

More generally, there does seem to be a lot anti EV rhetoric around which is often swallowed without question.

Arb.

bungeejumper wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:.. . I regularly walk along the single-track country lane that leads to a posh private school.... I suspect that the drivers might be stabbing their fingers at a touchscreen as they come round the bends...
BJ

Posh and stabbing doesn't immediately compute. Surely they have cars with voice control?

Arborbridge wrote:

88V8 wrote:In a different sort of shock, it has been noted in the Grauniad that [ih]ybrid and electric cars are more likely to strike pedestrians than petrol or diesel vehicles, particularly in towns and cities, according to an analysis of British road traffic accidents. Data from 32bn miles of battery-powered car travel and 3tn miles of petrol and diesel car trips showed that mile-for-mile electric and hybrid cars were twice as likely to hit pedestrians than fossil fuel-powered cars, and three times more likely to do so in urban areas.[/i]
:o

No great surprise - a neighbour up the road has more than once nearly run me over in his sneaky electric trolley.

In Blade Runner (1982), the EVs made a musical note when running. It has been blatantly obvious that such is necessary, so why is that the orforities who are so fond of interfering in car design, have not required it?

V8

But they have required it - EVs make a noise at 20mph or less and quite honestly, I have been nearly caught out by ICEs in car parks which can be quieter than EVs. No one complains about them.

To be fair this is old news. I was incensed by that regulation. After all it doesn't apply to IC cars. You can make your Daimler or Rolls absolutely silent at those speeds, but not an EV!
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new- ... ove-safety

NOTE that the regulation does NOT apply to IC cars! Clearly it is NOT about safety, but more pragmatic in requiring EV manufacturers to spend more money to be as noisy as cheaper IC cars, rather than prohibiting IC car manufacturers from making a quiet refined product.

Urbandreamer wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:But they have required it - EVs make a noise at 20mph or less and quite honestly, I have been nearly caught out by ICEs in car parks which can be quieter than EVs. No one complains about them.

To be fair this is old news. I was incensed by that regulation. After all it doesn't apply to IC cars. You can make your Daimler or Rolls absolutely silent at those speeds, but not an EV!

Irony appreciated , but if I'm not mistaken, the universal requirement for an EV to make a sound only came in three years ago. (For new model ranges, it started two years earlier than that.) I have no idea whether it's ever possible to turn the sound off (I bet it is), but that still leaves quite a lot of these vehicles in silent but deadly mode.

Statistics can certainly lie, but if the numbers say that EVs are twice as likely to hit pedestrians (https://www.silicon.co.uk/e-innovation/ ... udy-565011), then we should be taking note of the fact, even if we can't do much about it. I am sure that the insurance industry is already on top of this one.

BJ

They could play a V8 sound