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Modern Headlights

Passion, instruction, buying, care, maintenance and more, any form of vehicle discussion is welcome here
XFool
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Modern Headlights

#127815

Postby XFool » March 24th, 2018, 4:51 pm

Hear! Hear!

I do so agree with this, it's been getting worse and worse over recent years. Fortunately I don't often drive after dark but when I do nowadays one of the things I find is that I just have to put my driving mirror into anti-dazzle mode straight away and just leave it there for the whole journey. Doesn't solve the up front problems of course (or from the side mirrors!). When I do drive at night these days I find I am frequently just driving blind, waiting for some awful thud to tell me: "Yes. There was a cyclist/pedestrian in the roadway."

It's about time this was taken seriously, it should never have been allowed to get to this stage:

BBC News

Lootman
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Re: Modern Headlights

#127818

Postby Lootman » March 24th, 2018, 4:58 pm

XFool wrote:it's been getting worse and worse over recent years. Fortunately I don't often drive after dark but when I do nowadays one of the things I find is that I just have to put my driving mirror into anti-dazzle mode straight away and just leave it there for the whole journey. Doesn't solve the up front problems of course (or from the side mirrors!). When I do drive at night these days I find I am frequently just driving blind, waiting for some awful thud to tell me: "Yes. There was a cyclist/pedestrian in the roadway."

Perhaps your eyesight has been getting "worse and worse over recent years" as well. In particular cataracts will cause bright lights to affect your vision more. And you need twice the light, or more, at age 60 to see what you could see in your twenties.

If I thought I was "driving blind" I would pull over. It really should never happen, for the very reason you cite.

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Re: Modern Headlights

#127819

Postby Slarti » March 24th, 2018, 5:11 pm

Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:it's been getting worse and worse over recent years. Fortunately I don't often drive after dark but when I do nowadays one of the things I find is that I just have to put my driving mirror into anti-dazzle mode straight away and just leave it there for the whole journey. Doesn't solve the up front problems of course (or from the side mirrors!). When I do drive at night these days I find I am frequently just driving blind, waiting for some awful thud to tell me: "Yes. There was a cyclist/pedestrian in the roadway."

Perhaps your eyesight has been getting "worse and worse over recent years" as well. In particular cataracts will cause bright lights to affect your vision more. And you need twice the light, or more, at age 60 to see what you could see in your twenties.

If I thought I was "driving blind" I would pull over. It really should never happen, for the very reason you cite.


I was so worried that I was having problems that last time but 1 that I had my eyes checked, I got my optician to see if I was unduly sensitive to bright lights in the dark. Had to arrange it in advance, of course.

Turns out that other than the same short sightedness that I've had for the last 50 years, my eyes are working perfectly.


But, the main point is that you can differentiate between those cars with the modern lights, whatever they are called, and those with traditional lights. And those with the modern lights are more blinding than even traditional lights on main beam.

They are harsh and reflect back off many road surfaces, which is far from helpful.

And the driving blind, that XFool referred to is driving with night vision destroyed by other people's lights, which often makes it impossible to pull over, as you can't see where to pull over to.

Slarti

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Re: Modern Headlights

#127823

Postby bungeejumper » March 24th, 2018, 5:22 pm

Lootman wrote:Perhaps your eyesight has been getting "worse and worse over recent years" as well. In particular cataracts will cause bright lights to affect your vision more. And you need twice the light, or more, at age 60 to see what you could see in your twenties.

Always possible, but you're being a bit cruel there. Right from the beginning, the medical view of HID lights was that they could be expected to cause problems for anyone aged 35 or over. Which is a bit of a brutal shut-off really.

And the RAC report itself says that the problem is not just for oldies, but that it's affecting drivers of all ages. When 68% of them say that HIDs are too bright and are blinding them, you know that the question needs taking seriously.

On the plus side, I feel that we're seeing fewer of the illegal HID conversion kits that the nation's boy racers used to install in their Corsas. Either the Corsas rotted or they crashed - I'm sure I wouldn't know. It's also getting harder (though apparently not impossible) to get a car through its MOT with an illegal HID kit.

On the minus side, I am getting a bit fed up with the number of modern cars that seem to have their HID headlights mounted very high up. It used to be just Jeeps and Porsche Cayennes that had lights so high they they'd blind you even if they were correctly swivel-dipped, but I reckon that the trend is growing. Just about all of the Land Rover/Range Rover range will now burn your eyeballs out if they're sitting behind you in a traffic queue.

Either way, I doubt that this forthcoming international consultation will force the removal/modification of any existing HID lamps - although I suppose it could stop them from being fitted to new cars (compare with chrome bull bars, which became illegal for new cars built after 2003, I think?). I think it's a good thing that this issue is being discussed, and not before time.

In the meantime, I'm doubly glad of my deep-tinted rear windows. They mean that the blinding driver behind me can't see me giving him a two fingered salute. :twisted:

BJ

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Re: Modern Headlights

#127824

Postby XFool » March 24th, 2018, 5:32 pm

I just knew someone would make a post like this:

Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:it's been getting worse and worse over recent years. Fortunately I don't often drive after dark but when I do nowadays one of the things I find is that I just have to put my driving mirror into anti-dazzle mode straight away and just leave it there for the whole journey. Doesn't solve the up front problems of course (or from the side mirrors!). When I do drive at night these days I find I am frequently just driving blind, waiting for some awful thud to tell me: "Yes. There was a cyclist/pedestrian in the roadway."

Perhaps your eyesight has been getting "worse and worse over recent years" as well. In particular cataracts will cause bright lights to affect your vision more. And you need twice the light, or more, at age 60 to see what you could see in your twenties.

No. It's not caused by "cataracts", it's caused by the growing prevalence on the road of extra large SUVs - with headlights at eye/head height - equipped with high intensity beam, high colour temperature Xenon headlights. (Possibly you drive one yourself?)

"Twice the light, or more, at age 60"? Perhaps. But I DEFINITELY don't "need" two hundred times the light, or more...

If you look at the BBC article and the following comments section you can be left in no doubt whatsoever that is the issue for me and many others.

Lootman wrote:If I thought I was "driving blind" I would pull over. It really should never happen, for the very reason you cite.

Then on some journeys I would have to "pull over" every 50 yards or so. Doubtless this would make me very popular with some of those SUV 'beam riders' closely following me.

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Re: Modern Headlights

#127831

Postby swill453 » March 24th, 2018, 6:12 pm

1nv35t wrote:Is it not also in part a increase in the number of European cars being driven in the UK without headlights having been adapted for left side road driving. Instead of dipping to the left/curbside, they dip to the right, that dazzles oncoming cars.

You used to have to cover up part of the headlight with black tape to be conformant to drive in Europe, however UK road safety doesn't seem to care/enforce such measures nowadays. Combined with when its raining and its a real hazard and well overdue to be sorted.

It's only Britain where the headlights "kick up" to the left to supposedly illuminate road signs. That's why we need to put beam deflectors when we go abroad.

Continental cars don't kick up to the right, so they don't need deflectors when they come here - the dipped beam might point to the right a bit but it doesn't dazzle.

Scott.

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Re: Modern Headlights

#127834

Postby Howard » March 24th, 2018, 6:24 pm

Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:it's been getting worse and worse over recent years. Fortunately I don't often drive after dark but when I do nowadays one of the things I find is that I just have to put my driving mirror into anti-dazzle mode straight away and just leave it there for the whole journey. Doesn't solve the up front problems of course (or from the side mirrors!). When I do drive at night these days I find I am frequently just driving blind, waiting for some awful thud to tell me: "Yes. There was a cyclist/pedestrian in the roadway."

Perhaps your eyesight has been getting "worse and worse over recent years" as well. In particular cataracts will cause bright lights to affect your vision more. And you need twice the light, or more, at age 60 to see what you could see in your twenties.

If I thought I was "driving blind" I would pull over. It really should never happen, for the very reason you cite.


A typical townie comment I suspect.

Do you regularly drive on twisty country lanes in the dark? If not, perhaps you should not jump to conclusions.

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Re: Modern Headlights

#127850

Postby Lootman » March 24th, 2018, 7:16 pm

Howard wrote:
Lootman wrote:
XFool wrote:it's been getting worse and worse over recent years. Fortunately I don't often drive after dark but when I do nowadays one of the things I find is that I just have to put my driving mirror into anti-dazzle mode straight away and just leave it there for the whole journey. Doesn't solve the up front problems of course (or from the side mirrors!). When I do drive at night these days I find I am frequently just driving blind, waiting for some awful thud to tell me: "Yes. There was a cyclist/pedestrian in the roadway."

Perhaps your eyesight has been getting "worse and worse over recent years" as well. In particular cataracts will cause bright lights to affect your vision more. And you need twice the light, or more, at age 60 to see what you could see in your twenties.

If I thought I was "driving blind" I would pull over. It really should never happen, for the very reason you cite.
A typical townie comment I suspect. Do you regularly drive on twisty country lanes in the dark? If not, perhaps you should not jump to conclusions.

As it happens, yes, I mostly drive in London, where I haven't noticed this as a problem. I don't know where XFool lives, but he did mention that he doesn't often drive at night and so I wondered if that was a manifestation of eyesight getting worse with age, which we all suffer from to some extent. I didn't mean to sound unkind, as was suggested.

I actually have a cataract in one eye (but not the other one, oddly) and a bright light shone at me will effectively "wash out" the clarity in that eye. It's an odd feeling and thought it might be possibly be for others.

In fact, for some with vision impairment, a license can be restricted to daytime driving only - 005.01 on this list:

https://www.nidirect.gov.uk/articles/in ... ng-licence

None of which is to suggest that these types of headlight aren't a problem, at least if used inappropriately or excessively.

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Re: Modern Headlights

#127868

Postby ten0rman » March 24th, 2018, 8:51 pm

I live in the country. I am also in my mid-70's.

And yes, I do find these new-fangled headlights to be an infernal nuisance. And no, it's nothing to do with deteriorating eyesight. Put simply, they are far too bright, maybe not from the users point of view, but they are from other driver's point of view in that they kill one's night vision. As a result, I try to carry out the old maxim from 55 years ago - don't look directly at them, instead concentrate on looking at the nearside verge. What this will do is to prevent, as far as I can tell, the really sensitive art of the eye from being overloaded by these lights.

In respect of mirrors, yes I also use the so-called dipping internal mirror. The external mirrors, being convex somehow seem to reduce the amount of light being reflected. Also, I have, on occasion, swing the mirror round slightly to reflect the light behind me.

There is though, another aspect of this, and that is that I find that there are a large number of headlights that are incorrectly adjusted. Quite who is responsible for this is something else. On my previous car, bought at two years old and therefore not subject to MOT, I discovered that the headlights were totally out of adjustment, shining, from memory, more to the right than the left. Or was it that they were angled to meet somewhere in the middle - can't remember, it was 10 years ago. Anyway they were put right - until MOT time, when a crackpot of a MOT tester deliberately aimed the right hand main beam down and to the left, with the result that I found myself on occasion drifting into the left hand verge - this on unlit country roads with no pavements - all because I could not see sufficient of the right hand verge. This was eventually corrected by his boss, still within the MOT rules.

I've also seen a car where the main beams were set to hit the ground a few feet in front of the car. How the driver could see into the distance on these unlit roads I do not understand.

In short, I have had to insist on the MOT people setting the lights to my requirements whilst still within the MOT rules. It's fine having them pointing to the ground if all your driving is done on well-lit roads in the suburbs, but not so in the country when you really don't know what you may happen upon.

Regards,

ten0rman

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Re: Modern Headlights

#127917

Postby XFool » March 25th, 2018, 12:18 pm

I saw this got a mention on the BBC News last night. Good to hear it is being taken seriously and dealt with officially at last. Depressingly however, according to a spokesman, these things "take years" to be sorted out and put into law. So it will be around for a long time yet. :(

Looks like it may have to be a case of night driving == wear sunglasses!

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Re: Modern Headlights

#128422

Postby DrFfybes » March 27th, 2018, 6:35 pm

There was a comment that echoes my experience - "If the car in front of you casts a shadow on the roadsigns because of your headlights, then they are too bright".

Having 'cars' rather than SUVs also puts us more in the eyeline of these lights. Technology is a good thing, and I think they should be allowed, but with a maximum height from the ground of 20 inches. With the same rule applied to cycles and their eye-level strobe lights with more lumens than my old Honda Superdream :)

Paul

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Re: Modern Headlights

#128469

Postby XFool » March 27th, 2018, 10:47 pm

DrFfybes wrote:There was a comment that echoes my experience - "If the car in front of you casts a shadow on the roadsigns because of your headlights, then they are too bright".

Having 'cars' rather than SUVs also puts us more in the eyeline of these lights. Technology is a good thing, and I think they should be allowed, but with a maximum height from the ground of 20 inches. With the same rule applied to cycles and their eye-level strobe lights with more lumens than my old Honda Superdream :)

I'm not at all sure they should be allowed. I can see where I am going at night perfectly well with my old fashioned, not even halogen, headlights. As I have with my previous cars. But these high intensity, xenon retina burners, who needs them?

I can't see(!) how anyone actually does 'need' them. Indeed, if anyone really does need them, I'd venture to suggest they shouldn't even be driving at night!

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Re: Modern Headlights

#128498

Postby Nimrod103 » March 28th, 2018, 8:49 am

This is a problem I have been worrying about for a couple of years now, and makes night driving a real pain.
I honestly cannot understand why it is legal to have such dazzling headlamps. or set so high above the road, which is the case for the increasingly common Chelsea tractors in my area.
And why do people insist on driving with fog lamps illuminated, when there isn't even a hint of mist?

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Re: Modern Headlights

#130180

Postby XFool » April 5th, 2018, 2:27 pm

Just a follow up to this...

Is there more to this than meets the eye? (Sorry!) I recently read something in New Scientist making the point that the colour of people's eyes effects how sensitive they are to bright light. Blue eyes, most sensitive; brown eyes, least sensitive. I have green eyes and as a child/teenager could find it painful to look directly at even an overcast sky. Not so bad now - possibly due to that ageing process. ;)

Also a tip, from a letter in NS, somebody reported their grandfather told them how in the First WW he avoided glare from bright lights by closing one eye.

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Re: Modern Headlights

#132192

Postby bruncher » April 14th, 2018, 4:46 pm

Totally agree intensely bright lights are a problem. It's not just cars. In London, many cyclists have extremely bright lights, often with a very high beam - a problem for pedestrians as well as other 'road users'.

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Re: Modern Headlights

#178307

Postby XFool » November 5th, 2018, 6:30 pm

Poetic justice?

Blindingly expensive: Replacing a headlight bulb on some of Britain's best-selling small cars can now cost almost £1,000

This is Money

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Re: Modern Headlights

#178310

Postby jfgw » November 5th, 2018, 6:42 pm

XFool wrote:Poetic justice?

Blindingly expensive: Replacing a headlight bulb on some of Britain's best-selling small cars can now cost almost £1,000

This is Money


So which ones cost almost £1000? The most expensive one listed is £846 which is over £150 short of £1000. It's still a lot though.

Julian F. G. W.

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Re: Modern Headlights

#178311

Postby XFool » November 5th, 2018, 6:46 pm

...I still remember that a replacement red lens/cover for the rear lights on my old Hillman Imp cost 50p.

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Re: Modern Headlights

#178315

Postby XFool » November 5th, 2018, 7:01 pm

XFool wrote:Poetic justice?

Blindingly expensive: Replacing a headlight bulb on some of Britain's best-selling small cars can now cost almost £1,000

This is Money

N.B.

Just noticed, same link has interesting video titled: New study shows most SUV headlights fall below safety standards

!

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Re: Modern Headlights

#178383

Postby bungeejumper » November 6th, 2018, 7:33 am

Drove back last Friday evening through the twisty, hilly part of the Gloucestershire Cotswolds, where the oncoming traffic was particularly heavy because of an M5 closure. Thirty solid miles of oncoming HIDs, all going up and going down the hills on the Fosseway, and easily half of them were shooting down satellites with their skyward beams. Couldn't see a damn thing, and nor could anybody else. :shock:

It's simply a lie that HIDs are self-levelling. When I rule the world, cars with faulty (or illegal) HIDs will be taken away for crushing.

BJ


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