Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Learners on the Motorway from next week

Passion, instruction, buying, care, maintenance and more, any form of vehicle discussion is welcome here
DrFfybes
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3733
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 10:25 pm
Has thanked: 1171 times
Been thanked: 1964 times

Learners on the Motorway from next week

#142793

Postby DrFfybes » June 1st, 2018, 12:36 pm

In a rule that seems to have quietly arrived, from next week Learner Drivers are allowed on the Motorway.

However this is ONLY when accompanied by "an approved driving instructor".

I wonder how many parents will take their kids on the m/way unaware of the restriction (assuming they're aware of the permission in the first place)?

Paul

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8066
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#142804

Postby bungeejumper » June 1st, 2018, 1:05 pm

And how many 17 year olds will conclude that their older bruv or their mate harry (the one who's old enough to buy the drinks) will do?

I'm all in favour of motorway driving lessons. We booked a short course from BSM for both our daughters, a couple of months after they'd passed their tests, and it was money well spent.

Call it a Level Two qualification, and maybe make it compulsory for anyone hiring a car or a van (which would be more than averagely likely to be using the motorway), and we might be getting somewhere.

BJ

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8066
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#142842

Postby bungeejumper » June 1st, 2018, 2:03 pm

The full consultation paper's here: https://www.gov.uk/government/consultat ... -motorways . There's some quite good, realistic thinking - for instance, it acknowledges that the idea may entail some extra risks to the public. And some of the research into young driver attitudes toward motorways (fear, mostly!) also rings true.

The consultation does recommend that only fully dual control vehicles would be eligible to do motorway training, which would seem to limit it to driving school cars. There'd be none of that "Uncle Arthur who used to be a truck driving trainer in the army" malarkey.

BJ

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18684
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6564 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#142843

Postby Lootman » June 1st, 2018, 2:04 pm

One could argue that motorway driving is easier than normal driving.

At least it would seem so judging by the number of elderly drivers I see hogging the centre lane at 60 mph.

chas49
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1935
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 10:25 am
Has thanked: 216 times
Been thanked: 457 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#142912

Postby chas49 » June 1st, 2018, 6:37 pm

According to https://www.gov.uk/government/news/lear ... -from-2018:

From Monday 4 June 2018, learner drivers will be able to take driving lessons on motorways in England, Scotland and Wales.

This will help to make sure more drivers know how to use motorways safely.

At the moment, you can only have motorway lessons after you’ve passed your driving test. Some newly-qualified drivers take lessons through the voluntary Pass Plus scheme.
...

Learner drivers will need to be:

accompanied by an approved driving instructor
driving a car fitted with dual controls

didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5244
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3250 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#143432

Postby didds » June 4th, 2018, 9:25 am

And how many 17 year olds will conclude that their older bruv or their mate harry (the one who's old enough to buy the drinks) will do?


AIUI its likely their older bruv woulnd't be sufficient on a local B road let alone a M-way. Unless said bruv was substantially older anyway. Summat about X years of driving experience before you can be an accompanying driver etc? eg my 21 year old son, who drives 1500 miles a week in a 3.5 tonne delivery van for his job on housing estate roads, unclassified and B and A roads and motorways etc cannot accompany his 18 year old sister as the qualified driver, but my 81 year old mum who doesn't drive at all now and hasn't for over a year can.

didds

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10692
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1459 times
Been thanked: 2965 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144095

Postby UncleEbenezer » June 6th, 2018, 10:58 am

Many years ago, as I was approaching driving age, my mum explained that she thought the rules were daft. As a learner I would be barred from the motorway, but allowed to drive on the equally-fast dual-carriageway bypass and other fast non-motorway roads. All the same hazards as the motorway, plus surprise junctions with none of the smooth merging and generous sight-lines of a slip road, plus non-motorway traffic (like the occasional herd of cows on the A4), not to mention the ubiquitous roundabouts.

She was right. Motorway driving is more-or-less the easiest.

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8066
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144108

Postby bungeejumper » June 6th, 2018, 11:58 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:All the same hazards as the motorway, plus surprise junctions with none of the smooth merging and generous sight-lines of a slip road, plus non-motorway traffic (like the occasional herd of cows on the A4), not to mention the ubiquitous roundabouts.

She was right. Motorway driving is more-or-less the easiest.

A decent point, except for two things.

First, the average bypass is maybe five miles, whereas a typical motorway journey may go on for hundreds of miles. (Yawn. Boredom factor, big time, pass the mobile, and no I'm not stopping for a rest break because I've spent the last twenty miles passing that line of lorries and I'm not going to let the buggers overtake me now.....)

Secondly, a two-lane dual carriageway is widely (and correctly) recognised as cowboy country, and that's the kind of driver behaviour I tend to expect whenever I'm on any of our local DCs. I'm hyper-alert! Whereas, on a three-lane motorway, many drivers tend to settle down into lazy routines such as middle-lane hogging, and staying awake can be an issue for some drivers.

Which is when the undertaking starts. (I mean, come on, what else is the hard shoulder there for? :twisted:) My point is simply that there's more room for making dangerous mischief on a motorway - not least, because the majority of users are half asleep. That requires a different mindset from the cut and thrust of your typical dual carriageway. And better training, and better lane discipline.

BJ

Stonge
Lemon Slice
Posts: 523
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:15 pm
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 116 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144203

Postby Stonge » June 6th, 2018, 7:38 pm

Lootman wrote:At least it would seem so judging by the number of elderly drivers I see hogging the centre lane at 60 mph.


Yes, and 'Vote Leave' stickers in the rear window.


.

bungeejumper
Lemon Half
Posts: 8066
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 2:30 pm
Has thanked: 2846 times
Been thanked: 3939 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144216

Postby bungeejumper » June 6th, 2018, 8:39 pm

Stonge wrote:
Lootman wrote:At least it would seem so judging by the number of elderly drivers I see hogging the centre lane at 60 mph.


Yes, and 'Vote Leave' stickers in the rear window.

Aaah, the joys of stereotyping other drivers. (Says this balding Remainer.) Forty years ago, it was the scatter cushions on the parcel shelf and all the windows stickered with little plastic pennants from Skegness and the Isle of Wight that gave away the doddering oldies; these days, for me at least, it's the men who drive wearing hats, and the women who don't close their doors properly. Still plenty of those.

In the eighties the reckless young sported the furry dice and those horrible little blue cartoon gnomes (whose name I've mercifully forgotten); nowadays it's the magic tree air fresheners and the eff off bumper stickers that give the game away. That and the ubiquitous hand held phones, of course :( And the rolled-down windows spouting great white clouds of vape fumes, in what can sometimes look like a knowing back-reference to the glorious age of steam. :lol:

BJ

jfgw
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2540
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:36 pm
Has thanked: 1097 times
Been thanked: 1147 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144235

Postby jfgw » June 6th, 2018, 10:17 pm

bungeejumper wrote:...and those horrible little blue cartoon gnomes (whose name I've mercifully forgotten)


The Smurfs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs2pQKutpcw

Julian F. G. W.

didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5244
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3250 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144251

Postby didds » June 7th, 2018, 8:27 am

Stonge wrote:
Lootman wrote:At least it would seem so judging by the number of elderly drivers I see hogging the centre lane at 60 mph.


Yes, and 'Vote Leave' stickers in the rear window.


.



Yes - but those stickers are alluding to the League of Nations...

didds

gbjbaanb
Lemon Slice
Posts: 582
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:17 pm
Has thanked: 192 times
Been thanked: 126 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144313

Postby gbjbaanb » June 7th, 2018, 3:08 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:Many years ago, as I was approaching driving age, my mum explained that she thought the rules were daft. As a learner I would be barred from the motorway, but allowed to drive on the equally-fast dual-carriageway bypass and other fast non-motorway roads. All the same hazards as the motorway, plus surprise junctions with none of the smooth merging and generous sight-lines of a slip road, plus non-motorway traffic (like the occasional herd of cows on the A4), not to mention the ubiquitous roundabouts.

She was right. Motorway driving is more-or-less the easiest.


which is exactly why its not such a big deal that learners were excluded from the motorway - you could practice motorway driving on a dual carriageway (as I did) without needed a motorway.

Pipsmum
Lemon Slice
Posts: 325
Joined: April 12th, 2017, 11:18 pm
Has thanked: 56 times
Been thanked: 125 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144350

Postby Pipsmum » June 7th, 2018, 7:02 pm

I severely doubt that any brand new learners are going to be driving happily along the motorways unless their instructors are severe morons. The brand new, just passed the test driver, is much more dangerous alone when first on a motorway than an accompanied latter lesson learner. I bet there are a number of criteria to pass, before they are actually allowed to.

I think it's a good idea to have proper motorway training. Perhaps they can teach them to drive in the most left lane as a proper habit.

A pet hate is a slowing queue of fast and middle lane hoggers when there's a perfectly empty left hand lane. Just maddening when in the slow lane to be catching up with them from the inside by default, and have to slow down for them so as not to undertake because they've blocked themselves up by stupidity.

didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5244
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3250 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144361

Postby didds » June 7th, 2018, 8:57 pm

Pipsmum wrote: Just maddening when in the slow lane to be catching up with them from the inside by default, and have to slow down for them so as not to undertake because they've blocked themselves up by stupidity.



AIUI you don;t have to slow down to match them. You are in a lane moving at a faster speed than their lane. Its allowed.
Undertaking is the act of coming up behind them in the middle lane, moving to the left lane, passing them on their left, then moving back into the middle lane. Traveling in the left lane constantly and passing a slower moving lane to your right is merely passing. Its just a faster version of what happens at traffic jams when for whatever reason the left land advance while the middle lane is still.

Of course, take great care/caution when passing on the left for obvious reasons...

didds

moorfield
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3523
Joined: November 7th, 2016, 1:56 pm
Has thanked: 1546 times
Been thanked: 1402 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144385

Postby moorfield » June 7th, 2018, 10:29 pm

UncleEbenezer wrote:She was right. Motorway driving is more-or-less the easiest.


Yes and no. Driving in a straight line is the easy bit. Joining and exiting from slip roads (judging gaps), stopping & safety on hard shoulder, overtaking (particularly lorries), stop-start traffic can all cause very nasty accidents if executed badly.

Lootman
The full Lemon
Posts: 18684
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:58 pm
Has thanked: 628 times
Been thanked: 6564 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144418

Postby Lootman » June 8th, 2018, 8:50 am

didds wrote:Of course, take great care/caution when passing on the left for obvious reasons...

The only reason it is a problem is because (some) drivers do not expect it. There is nothing inherently more dangerous about passing on the left than passing on the right. You see this most clearly on US freeways, where vehicles generally pass on both sides and where often is no concept of "the slow lane" or "the fast lane". There are just lanes.

didds
Lemon Half
Posts: 5244
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 12:04 pm
Has thanked: 3250 times
Been thanked: 1018 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144421

Postby didds » June 8th, 2018, 8:53 am

absolutely Lootman.

didds

jfgw
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2540
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:36 pm
Has thanked: 1097 times
Been thanked: 1147 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144432

Postby jfgw » June 8th, 2018, 9:26 am

Lootman wrote:
didds wrote:Of course, take great care/caution when passing on the left for obvious reasons...

The only reason it is a problem is because (some) drivers do not expect it. There is nothing inherently more dangerous about passing on the left than passing on the right. You see this most clearly on US freeways, where vehicles generally pass on both sides and where often is no concept of "the slow lane" or "the fast lane". There are just lanes.

An important difference is visibility. In a right-hand drive vehicle, it is easier to see someone passing on your right than it is to see someone passing on your left. I recall from a previous thread (I think it was on TMF) that the accident rate in the US is greater than in the UK (on motorways) even though the speed limit is lower.

Julian F. G. W.

tjh290633
Lemon Half
Posts: 8209
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 11:20 am
Has thanked: 913 times
Been thanked: 4097 times

Re: Learners on the Motorway from next week

#144462

Postby tjh290633 » June 8th, 2018, 11:59 am

Lootman wrote:
didds wrote:Of course, take great care/caution when passing on the left for obvious reasons...

The only reason it is a problem is because (some) drivers do not expect it. There is nothing inherently more dangerous about passing on the left than passing on the right. You see this most clearly on US freeways, where vehicles generally pass on both sides and where often is no concept of "the slow lane" or "the fast lane". There are just lanes.

Well said. Often the vehicles in the centre lane slow down for no obvious reason while that, if any, in the nearside lane can carry on unimpeded. It does not have to slow down, just because the other lanes have.

TJH


Return to “Cars, Driving, Motorbikes or any Transport”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests