Two years with a plug-in hybrid

[staffordian]

Surely, as long as the car measures the volume of fuel the engine is using and the distance travelled, then divides the latter by the former, the rest is irrelevant?

Of course. But if the car is 'naturally' more fuel-efficient in summer and less efficient in winter, because of fuel density, then trying to use the onboard computer as a year-round benchmark for comparisons is going to run into problems. Even the best one will be way off the achievable mark during certain months. Just saying.

BJ

Ah, I see your point.

As others do, I also check my consumption by brimming each top up and logging the data on a spreadsheet. For each top up I have three columns, MPG since last fill, MPG over last three fills and overall MPG since owning the car.

I plot the latter two on a graph and with every car I've owned there is a definite sine wave graph with peaks in the summer and troughs in the winter.

I've put it down to the engine taking longer to warm up in winter, but as you suggest, I guess there are more factors at play too.

[Stonge]

I have leased a Ford Focus from Ford Lease. As I am not the registered keeper my annual insurance premium doubled.

I was not warned about this. Somewhat soured the deal. Something to look out for maybe?

[bungeejumper]

I have leased a Ford Focus from Ford Lease. As I am not the registered keeper my annual insurance premium doubled.

Too late now, perhaps, but maybe try a specialist broker next time. They can argue your case and effectively put the contract out to tender. Worth every penny.

Incidentally, did you perhaps mean this post to be in Slarti's insurance thread, rather than this one? Maybe the mods could move it?

BJ

[Howard]

An interesting discussion. I do not have a hybrid, but my current car is a similar size (Skoda Octavia 1.4 TSI petrol 140hp with DSG auto,as available in a VW Golf), has achieved 53.5 mpg overall since new (now 26000 miles). So basically the same mpg as the hybrid BMW. And almost as silent (except for the auto stop/start).

Maybe in the BMW, the hybrid is masking a relatively inefficient petrol engine or auto box.

Now have collected new Golf. Nice car, but after three days of driving, I'm pretty sure it won't be as frugal as the BMW. I drove it back gently from Yorkshire to Winchester and its computer was only showing 49 mpg under ideal driving conditions. After another two days of short journeys the tank is emptying fairly fast. I'm aware that a new, tight engine may consume a little more and the consumption may improve.

The BMW 8 speed gearbox was amazingly smooth and, whilst the Golf's DSG box is very good, at very low speeds it doesn't have the BMW;s silky transition between electric and petrol power.

However, Mrs H is pleased with her choice as she wanted a smaller car. I will check the real fuel consumption over the next few weeks and report back.

[PinkDalek]

I have leased a Ford Focus from Ford Lease. As I am not the registered keeper my annual insurance premium doubled.

Too late now, perhaps, but maybe try a specialist broker next time. They can argue your case and effectively put the contract out to tender. Worth every penny.

Incidentally, did you perhaps mean this post to be in Slarti's insurance thread, rather than this one? Maybe the mods could move it?

BJ

Might be replying to the OP's follow up I should add that the lease costs quoted above include road tax. Insurance is arranged by the driver and is extra. It cost the same as for a privately owned car.

[redsturgeon]

An interesting discussion. I do not have a hybrid, but my current car is a similar size (Skoda Octavia 1.4 TSI petrol 140hp with DSG auto,as available in a VW Golf), has achieved 53.5 mpg overall since new (now 26000 miles). So basically the same mpg as the hybrid BMW. And almost as silent (except for the auto stop/start).

Maybe in the BMW, the hybrid is masking a relatively inefficient petrol engine or auto box.

Now have collected new Golf. Nice car, but after three days of driving, I'm pretty sure it won't be as frugal as the BMW. I drove it back gently from Yorkshire to Winchester and its computer was only showing 49 mpg under ideal driving conditions. After another two days of short journeys the tank is emptying fairly fast. I'm aware that a new, tight engine may consume a little more and the consumption may improve.

The BMW 8 speed gearbox was amazingly smooth and, whilst the Golf's DSG box is very good, at very low speeds it doesn't have the BMW;s silky transition between electric and petrol power.

However, Mrs H is pleased with her choice as she wanted a smaller car. I will check the real fuel consumption over the next few weeks and report back.

I am taking delivery of my new Golf 1.4tsi next week, it is manual though. We are keeping the BMW Hybrid but it will be interesting to see which is most frugal in the real world.

John

[Slarti]

whilst the Golf's DSG box is very good

So they've solved the problem where, when coasting towards a roundabout for example, you put your foot on the accelerator to get into a gap, and the car slows down. Noticeably.

I've had that in to different Golf hire cars and it is most unnerving.

Slarti

[Howard]

whilst the Golf's DSG box is very good

So they've solved the problem where, when coasting towards a roundabout for example, you put your foot on the accelerator to get into a gap, and the car slows down. Noticeably.

I've had that in to different Golf hire cars and it is most unnerving.

Slarti

I haven't noticed that problem in only a few days of driving, but today, by coincidence am going on a trip which involves negotiating lots of roundabouts, some on fast dual carriageways and some in 30mph zones. Will see if that problem occurs. I see that there is an Eco mode, which encourages the engine to "coast" and virtually shut down when on overrun. So will check the car's behaviour in that mode too.

regards

Howard

[scotia]

If one notionally converts the £240 into litres of petrol, at say an average of £1.20 per litre that would be the equivalent of using an additional 200 litres of fuel. This gives a notional total consumption of 926.05 litres and an overall notional fuel consumption of 55.5 mpg.

This seems a sensible way to estimate the electrical component of the fuel consumption at the present time
But will any government sit back and lose the tax currently collected from petrol or diesel consumption? I don't think so.
So electrical power may be cleaner - but I can't see it being significantly cheaper.

[Slarti]

If one notionally converts the £240 into litres of petrol, at say an average of £1.20 per litre that would be the equivalent of using an additional 200 litres of fuel. This gives a notional total consumption of 926.05 litres and an overall notional fuel consumption of 55.5 mpg.

This seems a sensible way to estimate the electrical component of the fuel consumption at the present time
But will any government sit back and lose the tax currently collected from petrol or diesel consumption? I don't think so.
So electrical power may be cleaner - but I can't see it being significantly cheaper.

But, if you are going plug in electrical then surely you should be looking at solar power together with a storage battery?

That way, for much of the time, it will almost be FOC, if people like Robert Llewellyn are to be believed.

Slarti

[Howard]

whilst the Golf's DSG box is very good

So they've solved the problem where, when coasting towards a roundabout for example, you put your foot on the accelerator to get into a gap, and the car slows down. Noticeably.

I've had that in to different Golf hire cars and it is most unnerving.

Slarti

The good news is that the Golf’s DSG transmission behaved perfectly on the approach to all kinds of roundabouts at very different speeds. And setting the mode to “Eco” didn’t affect immediate acceleration when required.

After driving a hybrid which charged the battery on over-run and so slowed down slightly quicker than a normal car, the Golf’s Eco coasting setting is a totally different experience. On a modestly downhill dual-carriageway it will coast for more than half a mile from 70mph. Knowing the road, I found myself anticipating roundabouts before I could even see the warning signs!

The bad news is that on the first 356 miles, the Golf used 36.6 litres of petrol. That’s around 44 mpg. And most of the mileage was gentle motorway driving. A number of short journeys (each around 5 miles) from cold pulled the mpg down substantially. This is where the hybrid excelled as the petrol engine never came on for short journeys.

I’m hoping the Golf’s consumption will improve when it is run-in, but as a second car it looks like it will be much more thirsty than the BMW 330E which achieved 70.8 mpg gross or around 55 mpg taking into account the cost of electricity (see my original post).

Over the next three years covering around 20,000 miles including short winter journeys, with petrol at £1.30 per litre the 1.4 Golf will consume around £1,000 more petrol than the larger BMW would have despite its sports car performance. Taking the cost of electricity into account, the extra cost comes down to more like £550.

When I change my 3 litre Mercedes diesel E Class (with a very commendable actual 41 mpg over 30k miles) I will be considering a plug in hybrid.

But Mrs H likes the Golf a lot - it is a nice car and easier to park!

regards

Howard

[scotia]

But, if you are going plug in electrical then surely you should be looking at solar power together with a storage battery?
That way, for much of the time, it will almost be FOC, if people like Robert Llewellyn are to be believed.

Even if you believe

people like Robert Llewellyn

(whoever he might be), the government will need to replace the petrol and diesel tax base. Maybe cars will be fitted with a pre-payment meter which will record the units of electricity consumed (from any source), and when your units are consumed, you'll need to fork out a payment to the government for more units.

[vrdiver]

Even if you believe

people like Robert Llewellyn

(whoever he might be)

The actor who played Kryten, the robot from Red Dwarf. Relevant to this discussion as he is the host for the videos on the website http://www.FullyChargedShow.co.uk which talks about electric vehicles, a lot.

VRD

[Slarti]

Even if you believe

people like Robert Llewellyn

(whoever he might be)

The actor who played Kryten, the robot from Red Dwarf. Relevant to this discussion as he is the host for the videos on the website http://www.FullyChargedShow.co.uk which talks about electric vehicles, a lot.

VRD

And he's put his money where his mouth is, having gone solar with a battery pack (Tesla I think) for the home and car.

Slarti

[Slarti]

The good news is that the Golf’s DSG transmission behaved perfectly on the approach to all kinds of roundabouts at very different speeds. And setting the mode to “Eco” didn’t affect immediate acceleration when required.

The bad news is that on the first 356 miles, the Golf used 36.6 litres of petrol. That’s around 44 mpg. And most of the mileage was gentle motorway driving. A number of short journeys (each around 5 miles) from cold pulled the mpg down substantially.

Glad to hear that they've sorted the gearbox as it was a most unnerving experience to put your foot on the accelerator and actually slow down.

On longer journeys I get just shy of 50mpg, if I don't get caught in bad traffic. Having recently been doing mainly 4 or 8 mile journeys I'm struggling to keep the MPG above 40, without obstructing the traffic, in my Avensis 1.8. So I would expect your MPG to get worse, run in or not.

Slarti

[Howard]

Just updating this thread, for anyone considering a plug-in hybrid.

Having achieved a measured 71 mpg over two years of leasing a BMW 330e as a second car I’m now in a position to comment on the fuel consumption of its replacement: a VW Golf 1.4 TSI auto. (see earlier posts for the modest amount of electricity which the BMW used).

The Golf has achieved 43.2 mpg over just under 5,000 miles of similar use to the BMW. (The only difference is that the Golf has much more modest acceleration.)

Mrs H really likes the Golf because it is smaller than the BMW and easier to park. I like the Golf too, it’s a great second car, surprisingly roomy, quiet and nice to drive at all speeds. However it doesn’t compare with the BMW as a driver’s car. The smooth, silent and powerful acceleration of the BMW was amazing.

I’ve also changed from a Mercedes E350 CDI diesel to a leased BMW 520i. The Merc achieved 41 mpg over 30,000 miles and the petrol BMW is averaging just under 40 mpg over 5,000 miles. Again this is for very similar driving, mainly on dual carriageways and motorways.

I would have liked another BMW hybrid but was not prepared to wait over six months for delivery. The 5 series petrol engine is amazingly quiet and refined but doesn’t deliver the economy of a hybrid.

All the above mpg figures have been measured on a spreadsheet using the information from my fuel receipts.

regards

Howard