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Jaguar XJ at 50

Passion, instruction, buying, care, maintenance and more, any form of vehicle discussion is welcome here
ReformedCharacter
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Jaguar XJ at 50

#155273

Postby ReformedCharacter » July 26th, 2018, 10:55 am

Jaguar XJ at 50: driving the 1968 original and the current model:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/classi ... ent-model/

What’s telling is that when the two cars are parked after the drives it’s not the speed and power of the newcomer that has left the greatest impression, but the sublime ride and handling of its 50-year-old predecessor.

And I didn’t expect to be saying that.


RC

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Re: Jaguar XJ at 50

#155415

Postby Slarti » July 26th, 2018, 5:04 pm

I wonder if the plate came off his previous car and if that was a 420G?

Also, no wing mirrors? I thought that they were mandatory then?

Slarti

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Re: Jaguar XJ at 50

#155434

Postby PinkDalek » July 26th, 2018, 6:15 pm

Slarti wrote:I wonder if the plate came off his previous car and if that was a 420G?

Also, no wing mirrors? I thought that they were mandatory then?

Slarti


I'm unsure what you mean by the plate - PGP 42G fits 1968, as G was for 1st August 1968 to 31st July 1969.

The second and third images down below "1968 Jaguar XJ6 Series 1" (MWK 21G) and "1968 Paris Motor Show" have no wing mirrors:

https://www.jaguar.co.uk/about-jaguar/j ... itage.html

The 1972 Jaguar XJ12 lower down has wing mirror on the driver's side (LHD) yet the 1973 Jaguar XJ12 Series 2 Coupe even further down doesn't.

I've also learnt something I may have forgotten:

XJ was classified as a 'eXperimental Jaguar'

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Re: Jaguar XJ at 50

#155527

Postby bungeejumper » July 27th, 2018, 9:55 am

PinkDalek wrote:I'm unsure what you mean by the plate - PGP 42G fits 1968, as G was for 1st August 1968 to 31st July 1969.

The second and third images down below "1968 Jaguar XJ6 Series 1" (MWK 21G) and "1968 Paris Motor Show" have no wing mirrors:

https://www.jaguar.co.uk/about-jaguar/j ... itage.html


IIRC, having one offside "wing mirror" (or door mirror?) became mandatory in 1968; having two was required from 1978. It's rather strange to think that such an essential safety device as a nearside mirror was a paid-for optional extra until then.

Actually I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about what the Paris car show photos showed. It was common for manufacturers at these shows to leave off any 'ugly' bits that spoiled the cars' dynamic body lines. ;) Although I suppose a wing mirror (on the wing) might have served as a footpeg for the usual bikini babe draped across the bonnet?

What a shame that the XJS was such a lemon. There was a flash young guy in our road who had one, about 1977, I think, and he certainly got his money's worth out of his AA membership. (Curse those electrics.) Launched as a successor to the E type, but soon became a bit of a drug dealer special. In our part of the world, anyway...…

BJ

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Re: Jaguar XJ at 50

#155559

Postby Slarti » July 27th, 2018, 12:17 pm

PinkDalek wrote:I'm unsure what you mean by the plate - PGP 42G fits 1968, as G was for 1st August 1968 to 31st July 1969.

The second and third images down below "1968 Jaguar XJ6 Series 1" (MWK 21G) and "1968 Paris Motor Show" have no wing mirrors:

https://www.jaguar.co.uk/about-jaguar/j ... itage.html


Reason for the query was that my dad had a 2nd hand G plate 420G in about 1970, so I thought that, as the car was only launched in the September, he may have had a 420G with the plate 42G before that. Sort of a joke plate.

I commented on the wing mirrors as my memory said that all of my Dad's cars had them and a quick squint through the photo albums confirms that they all did from 1957 onwards. Most of those were 2nd hand cars, so either he only bought ones that had wing mirrors, or had them fitted after.

And all of my cars, on the road from 1970 onwards though some much older, had 2 wing mirrors, until they started having door mirrors, so I'd just assumed that they were always mandatory.

Hence my surprise at no wing mirrors.

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Re: Jaguar XJ at 50

#155566

Postby PinkDalek » July 27th, 2018, 12:35 pm

I'd obviously forgotten there was a Jaguar 420G and mixed up my wing and door mirrors (as bungeejumper politely didn't point out). All now understood, thanks.

For those, like me, who'd forgotten about the 420Gs, here's one available at auction (with wing mirrors):

https://www.carandclassic.co.uk/car/C1019036

The same colour as my late Father's much later XJ6. After I "inherited" it, we had much fun driving it around Spain, Portugal and France for six weeks or so. They didn't appear to have speed cameras back then. ;)

The Spanish in the remote villages loved the car and they would call out as we passed. It took me a little while to appreciate they were saying "Haguar".

Wasn't so great when the brakes started to fail coming down from the Pyrenees. I was never much good at checking brake fluid levels etc. Couldn't use the gears, as the thing was automatic, but we made it down into a village and all ended well. Except for when the exhaust blew going along a mountain pass somewhere in the Alps. One hell of a racket with the sound bouncing off the mountainsides.

Then "Fleeced In Nice™" getting a replacement.


All good fun though. The suspension was spot on for the motorways.

Edit: Good for God!
Last edited by PinkDalek on July 27th, 2018, 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Jaguar XJ at 50

#155569

Postby bungeejumper » July 27th, 2018, 12:42 pm

And all of my cars, on the road from 1970 onwards though some much older, had 2 wing mirrors, until they started having door mirrors, so I'd just assumed that they were always mandatory.

Of course, the real problem with old-style wing-mounted mirrors was that they were perfectly placed to rip the guts out of any poor pedestrian who was unlucky enough to get hit by them. Even though they were required to swivel. (Many didn't.) And they were invariably made of chromed metal, which didn't help.

AIUI, however, there was never a specific ban on wing mirrors (as distinct from door mirrors). Instead, there was a requirement that the offside rear view mirror should be adjustable with the driver still sitting in his seat. And that, together with the magic discovery that plastic door mirrors could actually exert a beneficial ground effect on handling, was enough to wrap it up for the old metal things on the far-away corners of the car.

I do remember that the Mark 2 Escort in which I finally passed my driving test (1976) had wing mounted mirrors. And that my instructor taught me a nifty way of using them to cheat during my reversing manoeuvres in the test. Now, if only I could remember what it was, I'd be the proud possessor of a completely useless piece of information. :lol:

BJ

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Re: Jaguar XJ at 50

#155573

Postby Slarti » July 27th, 2018, 12:52 pm

bungeejumper wrote: And that my instructor taught me a nifty way of using them to cheat during my reversing manoeuvres in the test. Now, if only I could remember what it was, I'd be the proud possessor of a completely useless piece of information. :lol:


You set them so that you can see the kerb alongside the car, when you are turning in the approved fashion to reverse. That way you can be sure of being the correct distance from and parallel to the kerb.

Still sometimes use that trick with electric mirrors in unfamiliar vehicles.


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Re: Jaguar XJ at 50

#155592

Postby ReformedCharacter » July 27th, 2018, 1:29 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
What a shame that the XJS was such a lemon. There was a flash young guy in our road who had one, about 1977, I think, and he certainly got his money's worth out of his AA membership. (Curse those electrics.)

BJ

Not just the XJS unfortunately. As I mentioned on another thread, 'A Drive Down Memory Lane', I've recently enjoyed reading:

https://www.aronline.co.uk/

The sections entitled 'Development History' about each model make sad reading, specifically about Jaguar:

In a review of production since 1 January 1972, he said there were a number of lay-offs in January caused by a two week- strike of engine assemblers at the company’s Radford (Daimler) works. In February there was serious interference for three weeks because of the miners’ strike and power cuts. In March and April there were no lay-offs. In May some time was lost because of a strike by a section of men who also took part in the recent strike. There was a further stoppage in June for about a day, again because of a strike by some assembly workers.


The American Road and Track magazine in a 1972 test of a not so new XJ6, commented on the ill-fitting doors and the walnut dashboard already showing signs of wear.


Despite the raft of improvements the XJ received, Jaguar’s reputation as a quality car manufacturer began to deteriorate rapidly. This can be attributed to low workforce morale, poor quality control within Browns Lane, as well as from outside suppliers. XJ Series 2 bodies suffered from being ill-prepared; the paint and chrome quality was abysmal; and the fit of body panels was bad even by BLMC’s standards. Even the door locks caused grief, and electrical problems, as epitomised by ‘Lucas, Prince of Darkness’ jibes, were at their worst in the Series 2.


The challenge was enormous. Brown’s Lane was a sweatshop of old buildings for low-paid, occasionally hard-working people slowly shedding the benign philosophy of William Lyons, the former owner: ‘If a bucket has a hole, I’ll repair it. I won’t buy a new one.’ Old-fashioned machines and production methods had not been discarded. Improvisation was the gospel. The Jaguar’s metal panels were stitched together rather than pre-assembled on big frames; the electrical parts supplied by Smith’s and Lucas were faulty; the chassis, manufactured in Castle Bromwich, had rusted by the time the bare metal was delivered on open trucks to Brown’s Lane; and customers regularly found their new car’s paintwork on their fingertips.


Sadly, this is only a small selection of the industrial and production problems. Not just Jaguar, the whole British motor industry was coming apart. I remember my father telling me at the time that one of the problems was lack of post-war capital investment in production facilities.

RC

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Re: Jaguar XJ at 50

#155599

Postby PinkDalek » July 27th, 2018, 1:52 pm

ReformedCharacter wrote:As I mentioned on another thread, 'A Drive Down Memory Lane', I've recently enjoyed reading:

https://www.aronline.co.uk/

The sections entitled 'Development History' about each model make sad reading, specifically about Jaguar: …


I can see why you provided short extracts only (not merely copyright) but I'll be reading the lengthy article in full at a later stage:

https://www.aronline.co.uk/cars/jaguar/ ... r-xj6xj12/


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