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MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

Passion, instruction, buying, care, maintenance and more, any form of vehicle discussion is welcome here
bungeejumper
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MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#203080

Postby bungeejumper » February 22nd, 2019, 8:15 am

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. France's reputation takes another knock, with six of the ten worst failure rates (at five years old) being for Pugs, Cits or Renaults.

https://good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co ... ass-rates/

That's especially weird for me, because my faithful old Xantia didn't throw a problem in all the ten years I had it - apart from a leaky water pump during its initial running-in period. And my daughters have had four small Pugs, all of which were simple/reliable, and one of which was still going strong when she sold it at 220,000 miles.

Best pass rates? Surprise surprise, German and Japanese take all ten positions. (But not a Merc in sight. ;) )

https://good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co ... ass-rates/

BJ

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#203127

Postby chas49 » February 22nd, 2019, 10:48 am

Interesting data. It would be even better if they could strip out the failures due to tyres, lightbulbs etc which a driver ought to spot before the test - and which don't really tell us much about reliability. To be fair, it is mentioned in the para after each vehicle, but no indication of the proportion...

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#203309

Postby XFool » February 22nd, 2019, 8:58 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. France's reputation takes another knock, with six of the ten worst failure rates (at five years old) being for Pugs, Cits or Renaults.

https://good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co ... ass-rates/

That's especially weird for me, because my faithful old Xantia didn't throw a problem in all the ten years I had it - apart from a leaky water pump during its initial running-in period. And my daughters have had four small Pugs, all of which were simple/reliable, and one of which was still going strong when she sold it at 220,000 miles.

Best pass rates? Surprise surprise, German and Japanese take all ten positions. (But not a Merc in sight. ;) )

https://good-garage-guide.honestjohn.co ... ass-rates/

BJ

"honestjohn"? Do us a favour. I have (once again) reached the conclusion there is no such thing as an "Honest John" or anything else when it comes to garages. I checked my car's MOT History via the supplied link and.... it just doesn't make ANY sense AFAIAC.

What do other people do when it comes to servicing, MOT etc. I confess I am currently at a loss.

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#203366

Postby bungeejumper » February 23rd, 2019, 8:56 am

Hi XFool, shall I start by assuming that you're going off on a teensy bit of tangent here? :lol: No, rest assured that the Telegraph's Honest John isn't any more of a car trader than the Lazyboy Garage on TV. (although I believe he may have been so in the past.)

XFool wrote:"honestjohn"? Do us a favour. I have (once again) reached the conclusion there is no such thing as an "Honest John" or anything else when it comes to garages. I checked my car's MOT History via the supplied link and.... it just doesn't make ANY sense AFAIAC.

That's odd. Unless you're driving a car with a cloned numberplate ;) , it ought to give you appropriate info about your car. I checked out the five year old low-mileage Range Rover that my daughter was about to buy, and it gave me all sorts of useful info.

Such as that the previous owner had done only 100 miles in their last twelve months, and that they had been warned in the MOT-before-last that all their tyres were cracked and shot. (At four years?) That, together with the fact that all wheels had now been expensively refurbed, confirmed my view that the previous owner had probably been elderly, and that my daughter needed to get the car checked over for dings and body repairs and "motability damage". (She did, and she eventually bought the car after haggling hard, and so far it seems to be a good'un.)

What do other people do when it comes to servicing, MOT etc. I confess I am currently at a loss.

Ask your friends? There are plenty of solid garages around, although they're not always the very cheapest. My independent probably charges £10 an hour more than the competition, but it does a 10% rebate for its regulars, and it hasn't messed up in ten years, and that's good enough for me.

Off-topic BJ

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#203394

Postby bungeejumper » February 23rd, 2019, 11:10 am

That, together with the fact that all wheels had now been expensively refurbed, confirmed my view that the previous owner had probably been elderly, and that my daughter needed to get the car checked over for dings and body repairs and "motability damage".

Hmmm, let's see. What does that repair bill among the paperwork say? "Dear Mr Windsor....." :?

BJ

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#203427

Postby XFool » February 23rd, 2019, 1:31 pm

bungeejumper wrote:Hi XFool, shall I start by assuming that you're going off on a teensy bit of tangent here? :lol:

Moi? :lol:

bungeejumper wrote:
XFool wrote:"honestjohn"? Do us a favour. I have (once again) reached the conclusion there is no such thing as an "Honest John" or anything else when it comes to garages. I checked my car's MOT History via the supplied link and.... it just doesn't make ANY sense AFAIAC.

That's odd. Unless you're driving a car with a cloned numberplate ;) , it ought to give you appropriate info about your car.

To expand. What it says on the MOT record (which in one case doesn't seem to be sensible) - compared to the garage's report and work done!

What do other people do when it comes to servicing, MOT etc. I confess I am currently at a loss.

bungeejumper wrote:Ask your friends? There are plenty of solid garages around, although they're not always the very cheapest. My independent probably charges £10 an hour more than the competition, but it does a 10% rebate for its regulars, and it hasn't messed up in ten years, and that's good enough for me.

I thought I had one, until a couple of years ago. :evil:

They went as far as 'valeting' their customer's cars. One day I noticed my headlights looked 'dirty'. Let's forget about the paintwork... :cry:

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#203433

Postby bungeejumper » February 23rd, 2019, 2:01 pm

XFool wrote:To expand. What it says on the MOT record (which in one case doesn't seem to be sensible) - compared to the garage's report and work done!

Two things. Firstly, if you're saying to your garage "please MOT it and do anything you think it needs" (as I usually do), then the garage may well decide to do jobs that don't figure in the MOT report, on the grounds that they have a long-standing relationship with you and they know you won't mind. For instance, if they find that your brakes are only likely to last you another 5,000 miles they may decide to change the pads, even though they're quite legal. (They might have put an advisory to this effect on your certificate, but then again they might not. Not everybody appreciates having advisories on their public record, especially if they seem to imply that the owner hasn't been taking enough care. It can send out a bad message to anyone who's thinking of buying the car from you. ;) )

Secondly, some MOT testers do go a little bit overboard on the safety-first side, and they'll give you advisories that don't need doing, because frankly they're touting for business. It shouldn't happen, but you can see why it does.

I had an advisory a few years back about worn discs and pads on my Passat, and so I booked it into a tyres 'n brakes place, and I asked them to pre-order the parts so that they'd be able to do the job on the same day. But on the day, the mechanic called me out into the bay and showed me that (a) my pads had at least 12,000 miles left on them, which is more than my annual mileage, and (b) my discs were perfectly good and definitely didn't need replacing. And he sent me away without charge, and returned the pre-ordered parts to the wholesaler. Which was very honest of him, I thought. I'd use him again any time.

BJ

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#203531

Postby sg31 » February 24th, 2019, 9:51 am

bungeejumper wrote:I had an advisory a few years back about worn discs and pads on my Passat, and so I booked it into a tyres 'n brakes place, and I asked them to pre-order the parts so that they'd be able to do the job on the same day. But on the day, the mechanic called me out into the bay and showed me that (a) my pads had at least 12,000 miles left on them, which is more than my annual mileage, and (b) my discs were perfectly good and definitely didn't need replacing. And he sent me away without charge, and returned the pre-ordered parts to the wholesaler. Which was very honest of him, I thought. I'd use him again any time.

BJ

If garages realised how refreshing this is to customers they would do it more often. It seems an excellent way to prove your honesty and integity. In a business reputedly full of sharks and conmen, finding an honest garage is priceless to anyone who doesn't know much about cars.

I had a similar experience 30 years ago. I was still using the same garage when I left Brighton 3 years ago. I also introduced a lot of other people to the same business and many became loyal customers. All from one act of decency.

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#203534

Postby Itsallaguess » February 24th, 2019, 10:11 am

sg31 wrote:
bungeejumper wrote:
I had an advisory a few years back about worn discs and pads on my Passat, and so I booked it into a tyres 'n brakes place, and I asked them to pre-order the parts so that they'd be able to do the job on the same day. But on the day, the mechanic called me out into the bay and showed me that (a) my pads had at least 12,000 miles left on them, which is more than my annual mileage, and (b) my discs were perfectly good and definitely didn't need replacing. And he sent me away without charge, and returned the pre-ordered parts to the wholesaler. Which was very honest of him, I thought. I'd use him again any time.


If garages realised how refreshing this is to customers they would do it more often.

It seems an excellent way to prove your honesty and integrity. In a business reputedly full of sharks and conmen, finding an honest garage is priceless to anyone who doesn't know much about cars.


How would we know that they're an honest garage, and not a dishonest garage with a really good tactic to attract new victims customers....?

sg31 wrote:
I had a similar experience 30 years ago. I was still using the same garage when I left Brighton 3 years ago.

I also introduced a lot of other people to the same business and many became loyal customers. All from one act of decency.


See - the tactic works!!!

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#203566

Postby scottnsilky » February 24th, 2019, 2:36 pm

If it's a decent and competent business, that's all to the good.....

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#203582

Postby gryffron » February 24th, 2019, 7:26 pm

XFool wrote:What do other people do when it comes to servicing, MOT etc. I confess I am currently at a loss.

Ask your taxi/minicab driver. They do loads of miles, they all talk to each other. They know all the best garages in the area. Whilst I concede taxi drivers might think they know everything, this is the one subject where their opinion really is gospel.

Gryff

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#204112

Postby MonsterMork » February 26th, 2019, 11:01 pm

Not surprisingly almost all entries on the list state problems with lights. Well no sh1t sherlock! I reckon I must fail about 20% of the vehicles presented to me for testing on blown bulbs. Even if your headlights, sidelights, indicators and brake lights are all fine you can still fail for a blown number plate lamp :o And us testers ain't immune from bulb failure either - took my bike for a test a few years back, lights were all good when I left home but the headlamp had blown by the time I got the six miles to the test station :roll:

If you want to see some true shockers have a nosey here:
https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/ca ... r-stories/

MoTTesterMork

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#204144

Postby Urbandreamer » February 27th, 2019, 7:21 am

My only recent MOT failyers are lights.

OK, I should regularly check them and change when faulty, but I have failed at that. The garage replaced them at the time and passed the car.

The truth is that the MOT should be regarded as a joy full event. You are required to check that your car is not a danger to others or yourself!

It certainly shouldn't be regarded as a indication of the reliability of the car, as CLEARLY you should regard reliability as different from safety and in all cases maintain your car. Either yourself or by taking it to a garage and asking them to service it for you.

If the MOT tester can start the car and it passes the emmissions tests, that's ok. Regardless of if it only starts in dry weather!

Yes I owned an old design Mini. For those who don't know the radiator was not imeadiatly behind the front grill, instead the distributor is. If you don't keep it and the wires to the plugs clean then you should expect trouble in wet weather.

I recently heard a colegue say that his car was in for a "full" MOT. What the hell is that? Do they do partial MOT's? I suspect that he confuses all car maintenence with the Ministry Of Transport required safety test.

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#204203

Postby bungeejumper » February 27th, 2019, 9:52 am

Urbandreamer wrote:I recently heard a colegue say that his car was in for a "full" MOT. What the hell is that? Do they do partial MOT's?

People used to request a "pre-MOT", which IIRC cost less than a full one, and which enabled you to see in advance whether your car was going to fail on something obvious such as bulbs or tyres. (Or knackered suspension joints - remember how bad those used to be?) Often the garages were happy to do the pre-MOT for nothing, because it meant that they got the resulting repair work rather than someone else.

Somewhere along the line, we all moved away from worrying about the disgrace and inconvenience of having a car fail the test, and some of us started to think of the MOT instead as an annual check-up that would save us from having to do routine jobs as and when they turned up. Which is a Bad Thing.

Around our part of the world (rural Wiltshire/Somerset), every tenth car you meet at night has something wrong with its lights because the owner is waiting for the MOT garage to fix it. Whereas in France you almost never see a dead bulb. Hefty spot fines see to that. ;)

BJ

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#204406

Postby XFool » February 27th, 2019, 7:33 pm

MonsterMork wrote:If you want to see some true shockers have a nosey here:
https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/ca ... r-stories/

MoTTesterMork

What's the worst MOT you ever had?

I win!

Horror story: Looking tired

https://mattersoftesting.blog.gov.uk/ho ... ing-tired/

Speaking from the other side of the table, I can beat that.

Back to the 1970s, I had a Hillman Imp. Some garages then didn't like dealing with the suspension, as it had "Independent suspension mate!" I bought two new front tyres before taking mine in for the MOT. It failed - front nearside steering track arm. OK, I'd hit the kerb once so that made sense. Repaired by garage and released with a brand new MOT certificate.

I drove it from London to the south coast and back a day or so later. Set out with a pair of (virtually) brand new front tyres. Arrived back home same day with a couple of front tyres that were still almost brand new - on the outside edges. But the inside edges.....

Let's just say that the types pictured in the above link look good to me, by comparison! OK, you can see the cords, but at least they are still tyre shaped. My front 'tyres' were now a pair of cones. New rubber on the outside edges, cords ripping out on the inside edges. :shock:

The tyre supplier I went to (to get two new front tyres) said it took them around 10 minutes of endeavour just to get any kind of reading on the wheel tracking gauge.

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#204449

Postby MonsterMork » February 27th, 2019, 11:31 pm

XFool wrote:What's the worst MOT you ever had?



Had one a couple of years back where page one was the fails, page two was the advisories. Different size front wheels and tyres, both track rod ends stuffed, one wheel bearing so stuffed the drive shaft was taking out the hub, hole in the exhaust, emissions through the roof despite the hole letting in fresh air, you get the idea.

Did one recently: failed on headlamp out, brake lamp out, both front tires worn bald on the inside edges* and one of them was through to the canvas, brakes not up to scratch, along with a litany of other assorted problems meaning the repair costs could be approaching the value of the car.

*not necessarily a fail, as long as the centre 75% has the required tread depth then the outer edges can be as bald as a bald thing (provided the baldness isn't down to the cords/canvas).

Mined ewe, none of what I have had comes close to another tester elsewhere finding a gert big turd stuck to the face of the rear seats ..... :shock:

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#204596

Postby XFool » February 28th, 2019, 4:48 pm

MonsterMork wrote:Mined ewe, none of what I have had comes close to another tester elsewhere finding a gert big turd stuck to the face of the rear seats ..... :shock:

Was it passed?

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#204606

Postby jfgw » February 28th, 2019, 5:32 pm

MonsterMork wrote:emissions through the roof


That does sound bad!

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#204925

Postby AF62 » March 1st, 2019, 9:48 pm

XFool wrote:What's the worst MOT you ever had?


I can't tell you the worst, but I can tell you the funniest.

I took a Citroen BX for a test and when I came to collect it I was told it had failed.

I was told everything was fine apart from the handbrake, which didn't work at all.

I asked if they had the rear wheels on the rolling road when they checked the handbrake and the receptionist said they didn't know so went and got the tester who said "of course". And then the penny dropped* with them and they rushed out and came back 5 minutes later with a pass certificate.


*Citroen BX's had a rather weird braking system (along with the hydraulic suspension) where the handbrake worked on the front wheels - http://bx16valve.com/technical-info/brakes-bx-16-valve/

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Re: MOTs - the good, the bad and the ugly

#204969

Postby bungeejumper » March 2nd, 2019, 9:38 am

AF62 wrote:I asked if they had the rear wheels on the rolling road when they checked the handbrake and the receptionist said they didn't know so went and got the tester who said "of course". And then the penny dropped* with them and they rushed out and came back 5 minutes later with a pass certificate.

*Citroen BX's had a rather weird braking system (along with the hydraulic suspension) where the handbrake worked on the front wheels - http://bx16valve.com/technical-info/brakes-bx-16-valve/

Love it. Yes, my Xantia had the same system, although I never met a mechanic who didn't already know that. I think the Alfasud also had a front wheel handbrake, and so did some Subarus.

As for the "magic carpet" self-levelling hydraulic suspension on those Citroens, it was certainly a pain when one of the hydraulic spheres failed (usually at short notice), but they weren't exactly expensive to replace (about £30 each, IIRC), and it took only about 40 minutes. You just put the car on an axle stand, unscrewed the sphere (no need to depressurise) and screwed the new unit back in. Sorted. Was worth it for the impeccable ride on long journeys, which is why they were standard equipment on Rolls Royces. ;)

BJ


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