Electric charge point.

[Snowbadger]

Soon to begin building a new garage, and it occurred to me that I should take the opportunity to prepare for the end of diesel and petrol by installing a dedicated car charging point. Probably not have an electric car for 18 months to two years time, any advice on what to install, or best to await developments?

Cheers,

SB

[scrumpyjack]

I don't think you can get the £500 OLEV grant for installing one unless you have an electric car

[meldrewlives]

If the garage is detached from the house at least ensure the supply cable is specified to take the likely load of a charging point even if you don't install one immediately.

[staffordian]

Possibly a red herring, but a few years ago, possibly four or five, canvassers were door knocking where I used to live, offering to instal free charge points. My son had one in his garage, though he wasn't then, and isn't yet considering an electric car. But it does to some extent future proof his options.

I assume this was some sort of government sponsored scheme which no longer exists?

[richlist]

I would suggest being a little cautious here. If you already had an electric car then, yes, get a charge point installed.

But there is a much bigger consideration. A current dedicated charge point is I believe around 16 amp supply and this will take quite a few hours to fully charge a car.

Some manufacturers are looking at much bigger capacity e.g. Porsche are working on a 350kw design that takes less than an hour to charge from flat to full. So, there are big improvements on the horizon in terms of batteries and charging infrastructure that will likely find it's way into lower prices vehicles.

[dspp]

Soon to begin building a new garage, and it occurred to me that I should take the opportunity to prepare for the end of diesel and petrol by installing a dedicated car charging point. Probably not have an electric car for 18 months to two years time, any advice on what to install, or best to await developments?

Cheers,

SB

SB,

1. Run a cable from the consumer unit in the main house to the consumer unit in the garage, that is as big as the house supply cable. That way it can take the maximum amps for the house (without being oversized, which is what rigorous cable sizing will do). Also make sure the consumer unit in the garage has the same amps rating as your house supply fuse. If you give these instructions to your electrician they can deal with the rest. If you happen to have three phase then get that to the garage.

2. In the garage one day you will have a charger point. Make sure you can install it then. You don't need to do so now, but at least make sure you know how the cables will run from the garage consumer unit etc.

3. Fit solar PV to your garage roof. Now. You will be able to sort out the roof size, slope, and aspect, plus minimising shading, to best effect if you do it now. But my advice is to still use the type of modules that go above the roof.

4. Depending on how advanced you are feeling you might want to identify where future house battery 'storage' will go in (or outside) the garage. Again plan for it, even if you never install it. After all it is very costly.

regards, dspp

[staffordian]

I would suggest being a little cautious here. If you already had an electric car then, yes, get a charge point installed.

But there is a much bigger consideration. A current dedicated charge point is I believe around 16 amp supply and this will take quite a few hours to fully charge a car.

Some manufacturers are looking at much bigger capacity e.g. Porsche are working on a 350kw design that takes less than an hour to charge from flat to full. So, there are big improvements on the horizon in terms of batteries and charging infrastructure that will likely find it's way into lower prices vehicles.

Two key points here though.

First is surely the reasonable maximum a domestic supply can provide. I assume it's well over 16 amps, because electric showers are up to about forty amps, but it probably isn't going to be anywhere near what a fast charging point might supply.

But the second, and IMHO key point of a home charger is that by and large, speed isn't as important as convenience; most cars at homes will have at least eight hours overnight during which they can be charged, and for most commuters etc, possibly twelve hours or more, so really fast charging isn't as important as it is at charge points, where drivers want a quick recharge to continue a journey, and the charge point providers will presumably make more money if they can charge more cars quickly.

[richlist]

Yes I'd agree with your comments but it depends on your lifestyle and how that might change or evolve over time.
* There are occasions when you might arrive home with low range left in the car and you need to go out soon after.
* There are going to be times when you forget to plug in the charger.
* There are going to be scenarios when cars are shared by more than one family member.
* Etc, etc, etc.

[dspp]

Typical modern house supplies are 100A. Older ones were 80A or 63A. It is best to future proof by running 100A across to the garage as the main cost is in the install, not the cable. Certainly reinstallation involves digging up & relaying and is a complete PITA and costly, so best get it right now.

You may not ever use that full 100A, but if you want it and can't get it you will be most cross (with yourself) at not having prepared in advance

If you do the cable sizing calcs for the cable house-garage at 100A you will almost certainly discover it is a huge cable (depending on distance). So note the size of the house incomer cable. Because ultimately you don't need to install something bigger than that (except in some special circumstances). Discuss with your electrician and they will keep you straight on this.

regards, dspp

[staffordian]

Yes I'd agree with your comments but it depends on your lifestyle and how that might change or evolve over time.
* There are occasions when you might arrive home with low range left in the car and you need to go out soon after.
* There are going to be times when you forget to plug in the charger.
* There are going to be scenarios when cars are shared by more than one family member.
* Etc, etc, etc.

Very true, and I guess this perfectly illustrates the modern dilemma faced by anyone purchasing "tech" of any sort, and that now includes cars.

Do you buy now, knowing what you've got will soon be superseded by something better and probably cheaper, or wait, and wait and never reap the benefits the tech brings.

Staffordian, who in 1993 spent £999 on a 386DX40 pc with a huge 40MB hard drive and 2MB of memory

[bungeejumper]

Do you buy now, knowing what you've got will soon be superseded by something better and probably cheaper, or wait, and wait and never reap the benefits the tech brings.

Staffordian, who in 1993 spent £999 on a 386DX40 pc with a huge 40MB hard drive and 2MB of memory

Relax. Seven years before that, I spent £1,200 on a sort-of-nearly IBM clone with twin floppy disks and no hard drive at all. And in 1994 I spent weeks cabling up my home with TV aerial and telephone points in every major room. What a waste of time.

Mind you, our outbuildings are still working fine on the ancient pyro cables (twin-core with copper earth sheathing) that were originally fitted in the 1960s (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mineral-i ... clad_cable), and all I've had to add was a secondary consumer unit with a couple of RCDs.

Agree that a 100kw cable ought to be man enough for most car charging uses. But knowing my luck, someone will eventually come up with a fourth and probably a fifth core that perform "intelligent" supplementary functions, and all bets will be off.

BJ

[9873210]

IMHO more money has been wasted with gold plated "future proofing" than would ever be used to just install things as they are actually needed. I've discarded a lot of co-ax that has only ever been used as a very expensive fish tape for pulling cat-5.

A lot of the install would be the same cost later, so there is no advantage to doing it pre-emptively.
I'd only do things that are much cheaper to do now than later. Some of this depends on the site, but in most cases the only thing I would consider is up-sizing conduits so you can pull 100Amp cables later.

[DrFfybes]

IMHO more money has been wasted with gold plated "future proofing" than would ever be used to just install things as they are actually needed. I've discarded a lot of co-ax that has only ever been used as a very expensive fish tape for pulling cat-5.

A lot of the install would be the same cost later, so there is no advantage to doing it pre-emptively.
I'd only do things that are much cheaper to do now than later. Some of this depends on the site, but in most cases the only thing I would consider is up-sizing conduits so you can pull 100Amp cables later.

This is probably the correct way. In the past I've routed slots in walls and lifted floor to run Cat5 from the router to all the bedrooms which was superceded by wi-fi, installed 6mm Twin and Earth cable to a putative outhouse to discover the regs required the Earth to be the same size as the conductors when the time came to power it, and run co-ax from the TV point on the outside wall under the floor to the telly, only to get Sky+ a couple of years later and find it was to tight to use it to pull the 2 Satellite cables.

Since then i bought a roll of 2 inch twinwall flexiduct and ran it to the outbuildings, brick piers up the drive, and across to where the pond would be. It was used to power the summer house when we rewired, and allowed us to separately switch pump, fountain, UV filter, and lights for the pond and steps where we needed more cable cores than we initially thought.

Just make sure you plug both ends of the ducting PROPERLY (with wire wool or similar) to keep the mice from nesting in it or using it as access.

Paul