Keyless entry anyone?

[Slarti]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-49273028

Oops!

Slarti

[richlist]

I think the report is wrong.

1. As far as I know a Land Rover Disco Sport requires the driver to press the open button on the key to open the door.....that can't be done by leaving the key in their pocket.I

2. Everyone knows that by placing your key in a faraday cage wallet stops anyone from reading the device.......no mention of that in the report either.

[redsturgeon]

I think the report is wrong.

1. As far as I know a Land Rover Disco Sport requires the driver to press the open button on the key to open the door.....that can't be done by leaving the key in their pocket.I

2. Everyone knows that by placing your key in a faraday cage wallet stops anyone from reading the device.......no mention of that in the report either.

It mentions the faraday cage in the video.

John

[AF62]

2. Everyone knows that by placing your key in a faraday cage wallet stops anyone from reading the device.......no mention of that in the report either.

"Everyone" - that would surely include the car manufacturers, who would then supply a faraday cage wallet to put your keys in when at home and another smaller one for your pocket and another one for your bag, to overcome the poor security they put into their cars.

[scotia]

2. Everyone knows that by placing your key in a faraday cage wallet stops anyone from reading the device.......no mention of that in the report either.

"Everyone" - that would surely include the car manufacturers, who would then supply a faraday cage wallet to put your keys in when at home and another smaller one for your pocket and another one for your bag, to overcome the poor security they put into their cars.

Or why don't they simply return to the button activated key. A button-less key is clearly a case of fashion before function.

[DrFfybes]

I can safely say we would never fall foul of this.

Given MrsF's habit of going back to the car and checking the door handle then she'd never get out of the car park

However, this is old news, that Mercedes video has been online for 2 years and is a rehash of a BBC story we discussed on here in Jan https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-47023003 so I'm not sure why it has hit the headlines again (perhaps some light relief from Trump and Brexit?).

Stuff mentioned in the video has been updated since to be more secure, but the simple fact is that it really is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Paul

[9873210]

Key less entry is clearly a convenience.

This is not an issue of fashion over function. It's a trade off between the dual goals of any security system. To allow authorized use with minimal effort with minimal effort while preventing unauthorized use.

[scotia]

Key less entry is clearly a convenience.

This is not an issue of fashion over function. It's a trade off between the dual goals of any security system. To allow authorized use with minimal effort with minimal effort while preventing unauthorized use.

You mean pressing a button is too much effort, whereas keeping your key in a faraday cage and having to take it out to open the car is more convenient?

[AF62]

This is not an issue of fashion over function. It's a trade off between the dual goals of any security system. To allow authorized use with minimal effort with minimal effort while preventing unauthorized use.

Fashion does play a significant role, because of the typical consumer view of 'look shiny. I must buy it' without actually thinking about it at all, so all the other manufacturers have to follow the stupid fashion if they want to sell product.

However the main problem is is an issue of technology designers thinking like 'good guys' rather than 'bad guys' and having come up with the concept of keyless entry and operation, not thinking about how that technology could be exploited.

This is then followed by ostrich behaviour from the manufacturers when it is clear there is a problem by pretending it doesn't exist, likely compounded by the fact it would cost an enormous amount of money to fix the problem, both for the cars already produced and the cars rolling off the production line.

And by this time the other manufacturers have already launched their cars that have the same problem, likely with some engineer in their company trying to tell people it is an issue, but being overruled by the marketing department - I am sure there is an appropriate Dilbert cartoon for that.

[bungeejumper]

Stuff mentioned in the video has been updated since to be more secure, but the simple fact is that it really is a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Not even a solution, is it? More than 30 people (mainly elderly) have died so far in the United States because they've accidentally left the engine running in the integral garage while they open the front doors of their homes and go to bed.

Cars un-restartable at airports because the dropped-off keyholder has said "bye darling" to his wife and flown off to Abu Dhabi with the key in his pocket.

Other cars that might get as far as the petrol station without absent hubby's key but will then be stranded.

New York Times says that it cost GM a hefty $5 per car to install a safety shut-off. Not such an enormous amount of money really.(https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/13/busi ... -toll.html) Dammit, even a warning beep when the driver exits the car with the engine running would be a start. Some have those, but many don't.

I have this quaint old-fashioned system that keeps me out of trouble. If I want to start my car, I put the key in the ignition. If I take it out again, the engine stops. So there's no chance of my opening my front door, or hopping on a train, with the car still enabled to drive. Maybe I ought to patent the idea?

BJ

[jfgw]

Clearly, additional security is needed,

https://www.memey.com/cheap-car-door-lock


Julian F. G. W.

[PinkDalek]

Clearly, additional security is needed.

The full image shows the chain is attached to a couple of Rottweilers.

[AF62]

Clearly, additional security is needed,
https://www.memey.com/cheap-car-door-lock

You may joke but I actually did that many years ago with a Mini where the keys for the door locks were one sided, but it didn't actually matter which way round you put the key in because you could open the lock with a bent spoon.

The chain and padlock was only to keep the doors closed and stop tramps sleeping in it as there was nothing worth stealing in there, and even if someone had got in then they wouldn't have been able to drive away even if they had the ignition key - the starter motor solenoid was faulty so you had to turn the ignition on, open the bonnet, press the solenoid to start the engine and then get in and drive away.

Weren't British cars marvelous.

[bungeejumper]

Weren't British cars marvelous.

Not just cars. My 1960s Triumph motorbike had an ignition lock that didn't just look like a slot for a screwdriver blade. It was a slot for a screwdriver blade. The correct "key" (I use the word lightly) looked like this:


The accepted thief deterrent, of course, was a massive lump of steel chain and a very large padlock around the rear wheel. All you had to do was remember to remove it before you drove off.

BJ

[DrFfybes]

New York Times says that it cost GM a hefty $5 per car to install a safety shut-off. Not such an enormous amount of money really.(https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/13/busi ... -toll.html) Dammit, even a warning beep when the driver exits the car with the engine running would be a start. Some have those, but many don't.

I have this quaint old-fashioned system that keeps me out of trouble. If I want to start my car, I put the key in the ignition. If I take it out again, the engine stops. So there's no chance of my opening my front door, or hopping on a train, with the car still enabled to drive. Maybe I ought to patent the idea?

BJ

That is scary - I didn't realise you could walk off and leave the engine running. In fact, it never even occurred to me that this would be a possibility, as common sense says allowing it is a stupid idea.

I'm struggling to think of a scenario where it would be useful.

Paul

[bungeejumper]

That is scary - I didn't realise you could walk off and leave the engine running. In fact, it never even occurred to me that this would be a possibility, as common sense says allowing it is a stupid idea.

I'm struggling to think of a scenario where it would be useful.

Apart perhaps from valet parking, neither can I.

I also wonder what happens with hybrid cars, which I believe are capable of firing their engines up automatically when their batteries run down? Sometimes to the surprise of the mechanics working on them?

https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/car ... tton-start

"A subset of keyless-ignition cars, hybrids and plug-in hybrids, pose an even stealthier problem, because they are virtually silent when in electric mode, which they may well be when sitting still after parking. A driver doesn’t have to be absent-minded to assume that the car is shut down—after all, the engine isn’t running. But the car may not be truly off. The engine could restart itself, say to address a climate control need, potentially sending carbon monoxide into the residence."

Eek!

BJ