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New car?

Passion, instruction, buying, care, maintenance and more, any form of vehicle discussion is welcome here
JessUK98
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New car?

#258452

Postby JessUK98 » October 17th, 2019, 12:40 pm

So my car died on me today. In the words of the recovery man, “It’s fooked”. The timing belt has snapped on it. It’s a Volvo V70 D5 (2003). Main dealer said it would be around £5,500ish to rebuild the engine depending on how bad it is, so I decided just to recover the car back home (got 1 free recovery with the breakdown service). Recovery guy has given me a number for a guy that might be able to repair it for about £2000, but I think I’ll probably just get a new car.

Any suggestions for a decent estate car? I’m tempted to just get another V70. Newer model. Are they any good? I always think my year’s model looks more solid with a bigger boot but I may be wrong. Not sure if I should go petrol rather than diesel as well as I don’t do an awful lot of mileage anymore, probably 8,000ish tops.

Also just out of interest, I looked on the CCTV and the recovery guy managed to reverse the car back on the drive, can you bump start a car with a snapped belt? I couldn’t get the car to start up.

TIA,

Jess

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Re: New car?

#258456

Postby swill453 » October 17th, 2019, 12:50 pm

JessUK98 wrote:Also just out of interest, I looked on the CCTV and the recovery guy managed to reverse the car back on the drive, can you bump start a car with a snapped belt? I couldn’t get the car to start up.

No chance. He could have turned over the starter motor to propel it for a bit though.

Either that or the belt isn't really snapped.

Scott.

JessUK98
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Re: New car?

#258459

Postby JessUK98 » October 17th, 2019, 12:57 pm

swill453 wrote:
JessUK98 wrote:Also just out of interest, I looked on the CCTV and the recovery guy managed to reverse the car back on the drive, can you bump start a car with a snapped belt? I couldn’t get the car to start up.

No chance. He could have turned over the starter motor to propel it for a bit though.

Either that or the belt isn't really snapped.

Scott.


He did show me a frayed belt so I suspect the latter maybe. What’s the black belt on the outside? Could that snap and not the timing belt? Or is that the actual timing belt?

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Re: New car?

#258461

Postby swill453 » October 17th, 2019, 1:01 pm

JessUK98 wrote:He did show me a frayed belt so I suspect the latter maybe. What’s the black belt on the outside? Could that snap and not the timing belt? Or is that the actual timing belt?

Don't know. I'd start to be worried that the “It’s fooked” recovery man is setting you up to get ripped off to the tune of £2000 by his mate.

Second opinion maybe?

Scott.

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Re: New car?

#258465

Postby JessUK98 » October 17th, 2019, 1:13 pm

swill453 wrote:
JessUK98 wrote:He did show me a frayed belt so I suspect the latter maybe. What’s the black belt on the outside? Could that snap and not the timing belt? Or is that the actual timing belt?

Don't know. I'd start to be worried that the “It’s fooked” recovery man is setting you up to get ripped off to the tune of £2000 by his mate.

Second opinion maybe?

Scott.


I think that wouldn’t be a bad idea! If it wasn’t for my checking CCTV to see if he’d managed to get the car on the drive, I’d never have believed he reversed it on. I’m stuck at work.

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Re: New car?

#258477

Postby bungeejumper » October 17th, 2019, 1:38 pm

swill453 wrote:No chance. He could have turned over the starter motor to propel it for a bit though.

Either that or the belt isn't really snapped.

First things first. On most diesel cars, a failed timing belt would have bent the valve gear so badly that nothing would rotate at all, so the starter motor would have been no use. When my diesel Focus lost its belt (driving uphill at 30 mph), the engine immediately locked up solid and the wheels skidded black rubber on the tarmac as the transmission did the same.

It was lucky indeed that I managed to get the clutch down quickly enough to be able to use the remaining momentum to get myself up onto the kerb. I try not to think about what would have happened at speed on the motorway. :shock:

So, to the point. Google says the D5 has an interference engine, and at least one Pistonheads contributor has said that a broken cam belt busted all 20 valves and dented the piston crowns. Whatever it was that your garage pal used to reverse the car, it probably wasn't the remains of the engine. (Could have been a winch, I suppose?)

So was it a modern day miracle? Methinks a bit more exploration might be in order.

Sceptical BJ

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Re: New car?

#258478

Postby Urbandreamer » October 17th, 2019, 1:41 pm

JessUK98 wrote:He did show me a frayed belt so I suspect the latter maybe. What’s the black belt on the outside? Could that snap and not the timing belt? Or is that the actual timing belt?


Engines have a timing belt or chain linking the pistons to the valves. This is usually underneath a cover and depending upon the engine design having it fail can be catastrophic. The car engine will make nasty noises and the car come to a halt fairly rapidly. Timing belts have teeth across them.

Engines also have what use to be known as a fan belt, but is now known as an ancillary, auxiliary or alternator drive belt. I believe that the Volvo one is also known as a serpantine belt because of the route it takes. This is used to pump coolant, hydrualics for power stearing and produce electricity. The engine will continue to propel the car while there is energy in the battery. Though you should stop as soon as possible. This belt usually has a V or multi rib profile running around the belt as a continous loop. Having it fail is irritating and may indicate that other bits need replacing.

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Re: New car?

#258484

Postby JessUK98 » October 17th, 2019, 1:55 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
swill453 wrote:No chance. He could have turned over the starter motor to propel it for a bit though.

Either that or the belt isn't really snapped.

First things first. On most diesel cars, a failed timing belt would have bent the valve gear so badly that nothing would rotate at all, so the starter motor would have been no use. When my diesel Focus lost its belt (driving uphill at 30 mph), the engine immediately locked up solid and the wheels skidded black rubber on the tarmac as the transmission did the same.

It was lucky indeed that I managed to get the clutch down quickly enough to be able to use the remaining momentum to get myself up onto the kerb. I try not to think about what would have happened at speed on the motorway. :shock:

So, to the point. Google says the D5 has an interference engine, and at least one Pistonheads contributor has said that a broken cam belt busted all 20 valves and dented the piston crowns. Whatever it was that your garage pal used to reverse the car, it probably wasn't the remains of the engine. (Could have been a winch, I suppose?)

So was it a modern day miracle? Methinks a bit more exploration might be in order.

Sceptical BJ


No winches, or assistance of any kind. I live on a hill and the CCTV covers a little bit of the road immediately outside the drive as well. CCTV shows the car moving past the drive, goes off camera and then the car being reversed back on (so reversed up the hill). I was like "WTF, I thought it was fooked". Intrigued now to get home and look properly.

When the car conked out I had no prior warning. I'd just turned into another road and it kind of did a jolt/shudder and cut out (A bit like when you stall). Tried to start it, and nothing. Turned the key in the ignition and the lights came on and it made a noise when key turned in the ignition. So I initially thought maybe the alternator had gone. When recovery guy got there he popped the bonnet open, pointed to the broken belt and was like your timing belt has snapped.

Urbandreamer wrote:
JessUK98 wrote:He did show me a frayed belt so I suspect the latter maybe. What’s the black belt on the outside? Could that snap and not the timing belt? Or is that the actual timing belt?


Engines have a timing belt or chain linking the pistons to the valves. This is usually underneath a cover and depending upon the engine design having it fail can be catastrophic. The car engine will make nasty noises and the car come to a halt fairly rapidly. Timing belts have teeth across them.

Engines also have what use to be known as a fan belt, but is now known as an ancillary, auxiliary or alternator drive belt. I believe that the Volvo one is also known as a serpantine belt because of the route it takes. This is used to pump coolant, hydrualics for power stearing and produce electricity. The engine will continue to propel the car while there is energy in the battery. Though you should stop as soon as possible. This belt usually has a V or multi rib profile running around the belt as a continous loop. Having it fail is irritating and may indicate that other bits need replacing.


Maybe this is the belt that has broken. The car did just glide along for a bit, and not just immediately stop. It was the belt on the outside he pointed at, and not the belt in the casing.

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Re: New car?

#258487

Postby bungeejumper » October 17th, 2019, 2:05 pm

JessUK98 wrote:Maybe this is the belt that has broken. The car did just glide along for a bit, and not just immediately stop. It was the belt on the outside he pointed at, and not the belt in the casing.

That would be excellent news if so. I suppose there's a chance that some electronic cut-out might have axed the power to the ignition when the aux belt broke? I haven't met that one, but all things are possible.

Keep yer hopes up!

BJ

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Re: New car?

#258491

Postby bungeejumper » October 17th, 2019, 2:24 pm

And another thing. Since when have recovery drivers used words like "fooked"?

Sounds like they sent out the village gorilla to your breakdown. His technical knowledge may have been a reflection of that factor. Another reason why I'll probably stick with the AA, who have always been impeccable at the roadside, even when they couldn't be optimistic.

BJ

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Re: New car?

#258498

Postby JessUK98 » October 17th, 2019, 2:50 pm

bungeejumper wrote:And another thing. Since when have recovery drivers used words like "fooked"?

Sounds like they sent out the village gorilla to your breakdown. His technical knowledge may have been a reflection of that factor. Another reason why I'll probably stick with the AA, who have always been impeccable at the roadside, even when they couldn't be optimistic.

BJ


:lol: He actually used the word fooked and not the one with a u and a c in it as well. It’s Volvo Assist, last time they sent out an actual Technician, it’s the first time I’ve had someone from the local recovery service sent. Maybe he actually is the village gorilla!

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Re: New car?

#258552

Postby JessUK98 » October 17th, 2019, 6:22 pm

Right, it’s this belt that has definitely snapped (auxiliary)
https://youtu.be/bw4Hv8EZO_c

Mr It’s Fooked said that he thinks a bit of that has gone into the timing belt and wrecked that. I’m not 100% convinced now if he’s managed to reverse the car on the drive. It’s dark and torrential rain so I will have to look properly tomorrow.

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Re: New car?

#258590

Postby Wmnr » October 17th, 2019, 9:27 pm

Sounds like your sepentine belt (not timing belt) has snapped. If the recovery guy called it a timing belt then ignore everything he said.

The serpentine belt will not have damaged the timing belt. It may have damaged something else.

If it's just the serpentine belt, then it can be replaced easily and cheaply

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Re: New car?

#258601

Postby supremetwo » October 17th, 2019, 10:17 pm

Wmnr wrote:Sounds like your sepentine belt (not timing belt) has snapped. If the recovery guy called it a timing belt then ignore everything he said.

The serpentine belt will not have damaged the timing belt. It may have damaged something else.

If it's just the serpentine belt, then it can be replaced easily and cheaply

Also would explain the breakdown symptoms, i.e. the battery went flat because it was not being charged by the alternator driven by that belt.

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Re: New car?

#258629

Postby jfgw » October 18th, 2019, 12:21 am

In my (limited) experience, timing belts are completely enclosed so I don't think a broken auxiliary belt is likely to have damaged it. I suppose an engine that suddenly seizes could damage an auxiliary belt though.

It would be relevant to know how your car died. If it suddenly stalled and would not restart (and struggled to turn at all), you could have a broken timing belt (or one with stripped teeth). If it died some other way (and someone managed to reverse it onto your drive), there is another cause.

I don't know of any reason that a broken auxiliary belt would cause a car to suddenly die. I would expect other symptoms to present themselves first. I drove about 25 miles (with headlights on) with a broken belt (on a Diesel) many years ago but the only symptom was a battery warning light. More recently, I had a tensioner bolt shear and I lost the functions of the alternator, coolant pump, power steering and brake servo. I was still able to drive the short distance home.

Julian F. G. W.

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Re: New car?

#258695

Postby JessUK98 » October 18th, 2019, 10:09 am

Well the recovery guy could well be correct. Although how on earth he managed to get it started and reversed onto the drive is beyond me.
https://www.flickr.com/gp/185048341@N03/2CAyw2
Can you see these photos? I’m pretty sure there should be a belt there....

Edit - I cannot find any remnants of the timing belt at all. The aux belt hasn’t snapped but is split.

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Re: New car?

#258703

Postby Mike88 » October 18th, 2019, 10:32 am

There is no way an attempt should be made to turn the engine over with a broken cambelt although I doubt whether it would turn over as the ability to drive the camshaft and pistons would be negated by a broken belt. Even if the engine did turn over, the pistons would probably break resulting in engine debris breaking through the bore meaning the engine would then probably be irreparable. In essence nobody in their right mind would even attempt to turn the engine over with a broken cambelt. In this case the breakdown driver probably used either a winch or let the vehicle glide from the breakdown truck onto the drive. My inclination would be to get a replacement engine from a vehicle dismantlers or ebay such as this one here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-VOLVO-V ... ke%3AVolvo

A mobile mechanic would probably fit this for less than £300.

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Re: New car?

#258705

Postby JessUK98 » October 18th, 2019, 10:39 am

Mike88 wrote:There is no way an attempt should be made to turn the engine over with a broken cambelt although I doubt whether it would turn over as the ability to drive the camshaft and pistons would be negated by a broken belt. Even if the engine did turn over, the pistons would probably break resulting in engine debris breaking through the bore meaning the engine would then probably be irreparable. In essence nobody in their right mind would even attempt to turn the engine over with a broken cambelt. In this case the breakdown driver probably used either a winch or let the vehicle glide from the breakdown truck onto the drive. My inclination would be to get a replacement engine from a vehicle dismantlers or ebay such as this one here:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2002-VOLVO-V ... ke%3AVolvo

A mobile mechanic would probably fit this for less than £300.


He didn’t use a winch and it was uphill he reversed it, I have in on CCTV. When it was reversing back the hazards were blinking, the headlights were off (usually on automatically), but flashed on then off again as he was stopped.

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Re: New car?

#259367

Postby JessUK98 » October 21st, 2019, 10:15 pm

So hopefully my car is going on later this week for spares/repair.
I've seen a few cars within reasonable distance (i.e. less than 100 miles), that are manual. It's been quite hard finding a V70 in my price range (£5,000 tops ideally) that isn't automatic that's not halfway accross the country. Lots of V50s but I don't want one of them!

So would one go for;
- a private sale 2.4D SE with 117,000 miles and full service history @£3200
- independent dealer 2.0D SE Sport with 178000 miles and 16 stamps in the book and a 3 month warranty @£2650

Both are the same year (2008). For info mine was a 2003 D5 SE. Can't find a manual D5 for love nor money near enough to me.

I'm thinking the private sale, but at £3200 I feel it's a bit overpriced? It has had the timing belt changed at 96,000 miles though and recently had new brakes put on.

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Re: New car?

#259370

Postby monabri » October 21st, 2019, 10:27 pm

If you know the registration, have a shufty at its mot history

https://www.gov.uk/check-mot-history?_g ... 1565205381


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