A car driving experience

[PrincessB]

Spouse who drives about in a Suzuki Swift Sport (1.6) no turbo 136HP would like to take that car out to learn how to drive it properly.

No interest in 4x4 or rear wheel drive type stuff, just some time with an instructor to teach the basics of handling a medium supermini at the edge of traction.

Brooklands is just up the road from us, but willing to travel and I would assume the Mini Cooper is as close to a Swift as you could expect.

Opinions, options, ideas.

Cheers,

B.

[redsturgeon]

Spouse who drives about in a Suzuki Swift Sport (1.6) no turbo 136HP would like to take that car out to learn how to drive it properly.

No interest in 4x4 or rear wheel drive type stuff, just some time with an instructor to teach the basics of handling a medium supermini at the edge of traction.

Brooklands is just up the road from us, but willing to travel and I would assume the Mini Cooper is as close to a Swift as you could expect.

Opinions, options, ideas.

Cheers,

B.

I think that learning to drive a car quickly on a track is quite fungible between cars and as long as you are driving a FWD car then you should have no problem transferring skills learned, much of which is mental in additional to physical skills learning.

I have driven many track days in things ranging from FWD Golf GTis to single seater Formula Fords and I would highly recommend it. These were all company organised events so I can't comment on public days.

John

[UncleIan]

Brooklands is just up the road from us, but willing to travel and I would assume the Mini Cooper is as close to a Swift as you could expect.

Opinions, options, ideas.

I did a supercar driving experience thing at Thruxton a while back, they start you in something small, I think it was a Mazda 2, hmm, it appears they use an Octavia RS now. Oh well, scrub that idea, but I was thinking you could ask if they could to a special for him of just instructed laps in the small car. That said, to drive a small car round and round there while there's Ferraris and single seaters sitting around...

[MyNameIsUrl]

Castle Combe is a fast and challenging circuit, not too far from you. This is the 'starter' course in a Fiesta, though more advanced courses are available:
https://castlecombecircuit.co.uk/experi ... nce-course

I've done it, very enjoyable and teaches a lot of skills in the time available.

[DrFfybes]

The "experience days" do not really provide tuition - you get a few laps under fairly controlled conditions building up to a very fast car, but not enough time to get used to any of them. Thruxton do a Skid Pan course for £100 or so and if 2 of you book and share a car it is quite fun.

Most trackdays tend to be "arrive and drive" but some offer tuition. We did one at Goodwood with Octane magazine which had food, snacks, and tuition all available throughout the day. No connection but a quick Google shows these guys https://www.opentrack.co.uk/about-us/ look to operate something similar at Brands, Thruxton, and Castle Combe, with tuition available and included.

Note that using you own car will put a lot of wear on it - I cooked the brakes at Goodwood, and the last one at Pembrey the pedal was going soft and by mid afternoon (perhaps 40 laps) the tyres were getting quite scrubbed, and as they were nearly new and £650 a set I called it a day. Something to consider if you need to drive it home. When you factor this in then £110 or so for 8 laps around Castle Combe isn't quite as expensive as you might initially think.

The IAM did some "Skills days" at Thruxton but I think it was members and spouses only - very good tuition 1 to 1 in 30 min sessions for 1/2 a day. I went with MrsF as she was a bit tentative when we got a faster car. This seems to have worn off somewhat.

Paul

[bungeejumper]

Not my thing really, but a friend thoroughly enjoyed this one at Castle Combe, a 60th birthday present from his wife. Tuition in a Fiesta, followed by six laps in a Formula Ford. He said that the instructor was giving him plenty of encouragement to get near the edge.

https://castlecombecircuit.co.uk/experi ... experience

Castle Combe was also where I won the only sporting trophy I've ever had in my entire life. I came second out of thirty drivers in a go-karting tournament. Discovered an aggression that I never knew I possessed. Shocked the hell out of my wife.

BJ

[ReformedCharacter]

Not my thing really, but a friend thoroughly enjoyed this one at Castle Combe, a 60th birthday present from his wife. Tuition in a Fiesta, followed by six laps in a Formula Ford. He said that the instructor was giving him plenty of encouragement to get near the edge.

https://castlecombecircuit.co.uk/experi ... experience

Castle Combe was also where I won the only sporting trophy I've ever had in my entire life. I came second out of thirty drivers in a go-karting tournament. Discovered an aggression that I never knew I possessed. Shocked the hell out of my wife.

BJ

I haven't been to Castle Combe for a long time. There used to be plenty of wild garlic growing on the roadsides around the circuit which made its presence obvious if you drove around with an open window. My father was responsible for calculating the lap times \ average speeds that used to be published in the race guides. All a long time ago.

RC

[bungeejumper]

I haven't been to Castle Combe for a long time. There used to be plenty of wild garlic growing on the roadsides around the circuit which made its presence obvious if you drove around with an open window. My father was responsible for calculating the lap times \ average speeds that used to be published in the race guides. All a long time ago.

The garlic's still there, although there hasn't been so much of it since the big hotel turned the site of special scientific interest into a golf course. There are also some cracking good walks along the three river valleys, complete with trout rising in the season. We live a few miles downwind of Castle Combe, and we don't need telling when they're running club days.

My company organised a test drive day for Bentleys and Aston Martins a few years ago, based at the Castle Combe hotel. We couldn't get the use of the race course itself, but about forty clients spent a highly enjoyable day throwing several million quid's worth of brand new and very fancy motor cars around the south Cotswold lanes. It's not unknown for the cars to get damaged (those lanes are tight), but the dealers seemed breezily unconcerned, and all ours were returned to base without incident.

BJ

[AF62]

Spouse who drives about in a Suzuki Swift Sport (1.6) no turbo 136HP would like to take that car out to learn how to drive it properly.

No interest in 4x4 or rear wheel drive type stuff, just some time with an instructor to teach the basics of handling a medium supermini at the edge of traction.

Depends what you mean by "properly". Presumably they have a driving licence so already know how to drive, so is it to learn to drive more safely? If so then they should be looking at someone like IAM (Institute of Advanced Motorists).

However by your reference to Brooklands and "handling a medium supermini at the edge of traction" it implies they want to drive quickly. If so then they clearly don't want to do that on the public roads as that would be outrageously stupid. So if they are aiming to learn how to drive a car quickly on a race track, then why is the car they drive on the road relevant?

[DrFfybes]

Spouse who drives about in a Suzuki Swift Sport (1.6) no turbo 136HP would like to take that car out to learn how to drive it properly.

No interest in 4x4 or rear wheel drive type stuff, just some time with an instructor to teach the basics of handling a medium supermini at the edge of traction.

Depends what you mean by "properly". Presumably they have a driving licence so already know how to drive, so is it to learn to drive more safely? If so then they should be looking at someone like IAM (Institute of Advanced Motorists).

Agreed - this will make a much bigger difference day to day and will reduce wear on the vehicle and journey times much more than driving faster.

However by your reference to Brooklands and "handling a medium supermini at the edge of traction" it implies they want to drive quickly. If so then they clearly don't want to do that on the public roads as that would be outrageously stupid. So if they are aiming to learn how to drive a car quickly on a race track, then why is the car they drive on the road relevant?

Because if you are going to learn how a vehicle handles at the limit, it is better to learn in a vehicle you are familiar with (or one of that style) than something designed for maximum grip, because if you do need to take evasive action in your road car you will have a much better grasp of its abilities and be able to make a better decision whether to slam on the brakes or swerve, or both, whether to lift off hitting a puddle on a bend or if that will spin the car, etc etc..

Paul

[AF62]

However by your reference to Brooklands and "handling a medium supermini at the edge of traction" it implies they want to drive quickly. If so then they clearly don't want to do that on the public roads as that would be outrageously stupid. So if they are aiming to learn how to drive a car quickly on a race track, then why is the car they drive on the road relevant?

Because if you are going to learn how a vehicle handles at the limit, it is better to learn in a vehicle you are familiar with (or one of that style) than something designed for maximum grip, because if you do need to take evasive action in your road car you will have a much better grasp of its abilities and be able to make a better decision whether to slam on the brakes or swerve, or both, whether to lift off hitting a puddle on a bend or if that will spin the car, etc etc..

I doubt that for the once in a decade occasion you need to take evasive action that training you had two or three cars ago would be that relevant, and if someone is needing to take evasive action more frequently than that, I would suggest a different sort of training was needed.

As for making a decision about braking, steering, etc, then back when I was learning to drive 40 years ago, then perhaps knowing how the car would respond (or more usually not) might be helpful. These days with anti-lock brakes and electronic stability systems, I rate my car's ability to stay on the road to be far better than mine, heck the radar on the front will even warn me if I am likely to hit anything and will hit the brakes if I don't react.

[redsturgeon]

These days with anti-lock brakes and electronic stability systems, I rate my car's ability to stay on the road to be far better than mine, heck the radar on the front will even warn me if I am likely to hit anything and will hit the brakes if I don't react.

Unfortunately I have had to switch the auto braking system off on my car. First it would not let me out of my drive after they resurfaced the road and repainted the double yellow lines across my drive. The car saw them as a hard barrier and would not cross them without first performing an emergency stop.

Then while trying to creep out at a busy junction the car again performed an emergency stop when it deemed I'd got too close to the car in front, which I hadn't since I'd carefully judged the distance and was still a good foot away as the car was creeping forward away from me.

On the other hand the warning beep has woken me up a couple of times when the car in front has stopped suddenly.

John

[bungeejumper]

Sorry, but we do seem to be getting into a bit of a tangle with interpreting what the OP actually meant when she talked about learning to handle a car "at the edge of traction."

However by your reference to Brooklands and "handling a medium supermini at the edge of traction" it implies they want to drive quickly. If so then they clearly don't want to do that on the public roads as that would be outrageously stupid.

No, it really doesn't (just) mean driving quickly. It means getting a feel for how the car handles tight bends, parabolic curves, apexes, changing road surfaces, wet roads, early/late braking issues, suspension issues, and much more besides. In short, the OP's intention was to have an enjoyable day out while also learning useful stuff. To confuse that with a wish to be a speed merchant for the day would be way off the mark.

I doubt that for the once in a decade occasion you need to take evasive action that training you had two or three cars ago would be that relevant, and if someone is needing to take evasive action more frequently than that, I would suggest a different sort of training was needed.

There we go again. Getting some experience in how to take evasive action would certainly be a side benefit of a track experience course, but it's a long way from the main thrust of the OP's request for a fun day out.

"Evasion situations" (for want of a better term) are so varied in the way they happen on the day, that you're very likely to have to make up your own response, based on car-specific experience, when your back end swings out on a roundabout. Or when, like me, you find yourself going sideways down a steep hill covered in black ice. (I hauled on the handbrake so as to lock the rear wheels, which brought the car back into line. That wouldn't have worked on my Citroen, where the handbrake operated the front wheels instead. ) But you can sure as heck improve your chances of picking the right solution if you've got practical experience of how your own car behaves under unusual stress.

BJ

[Watis]

Sorry, but we do seem to be getting into a bit of a tangle with interpreting what the OP actually meant when she talked about learning to handle a car "at the edge of traction."

BJ

She!?

[AF62]

Sorry, but we do seem to be getting into a bit of a tangle with interpreting what the OP actually meant when she talked about learning to handle a car "at the edge of traction."

However by your reference to Brooklands and "handling a medium supermini at the edge of traction" it implies they want to drive quickly. If so then they clearly don't want to do that on the public roads as that would be outrageously stupid.

No, it really doesn't (just) mean driving quickly. It means getting a feel for how the car handles tight bends, parabolic curves, apexes, changing road surfaces, wet roads, early/late braking issues, suspension issues, and much more besides. In short, the OP's intention was to have an enjoyable day out while also learning useful stuff. To confuse that with a wish to be a speed merchant for the day would be way off the mark.

Sorry, but I really don't agree that "getting a feel for how the car handles tight bends, parabolic curves, apexes, changing road surfaces, wet roads, early/late braking issues, suspension issues" is the same as "handling a medium supermini at the edge of traction".

I would rather prefer that nobody is deliberately driving anything "at the edge of traction" anywhere near me, thank you very much.

I doubt that for the once in a decade occasion you need to take evasive action that training you had two or three cars ago would be that relevant, and if someone is needing to take evasive action more frequently than that, I would suggest a different sort of training was needed.

There we go again. Getting some experience in how to take evasive action would certainly be a side benefit of a track experience course, but it's a long way from the main thrust of the OP's request for a fun day out.

The OP didn't ask for a "fun day out" but "to learn how to drive it properly" and for the "instructor to teach the basics of handling a medium supermini at the edge of traction". The question was why they would want to do that, and my view that if they wanted to learn how to drive at the edge of traction on the road, then that would be outrageously stupid.

"Evasion situations" (for want of a better term) are so varied in the way they happen on the day, that you're very likely to have to make up your own response, based on car-specific experience, when your back end swings out on a roundabout. Or when, like me, you find yourself going sideways down a steep hill covered in black ice. (I hauled on the handbrake so as to lock the rear wheels, which brought the car back into line. That wouldn't have worked on my Citroen, where the handbrake operated the front wheels instead. ) But you can sure as heck improve your chances of picking the right solution if you've got practical experience of how your own car behaves under unusual stress.

I cannot recall the last time I was involved in an "evasion situation", so am still of the view that trying to learn what your car would do under each situation is pointless. Far better to learn how not to get into an "evasion situation" in the first place.

[bungeejumper]

I cannot recall the last time I was involved in an "evasion situation", so am still of the view that trying to learn what your car would do under each situation is pointless. Far better to learn how not to get into an "evasion situation" in the first place.

(Sigh). Drive safely, and don't forget the St Christopher medal. Works really well, they say. Over and out.

BJ

[AF62]

Drive safely

Of course I will. Only a fool would do otherwise.

[PrincessB]

I cannot recall the last time I was involved in an "evasion situation", so am still of the view that trying to learn what your car would do under each situation is pointless. Far better to learn how not to get into an "evasion situation" in the first place.

You've been a bit negative responding to the questions I asked. I accept that my wording is sometimes not the clearest, but you've made some assumptions which depict the intentions of some training in a fast safe environment as an excuse to then drive in an irresponsible manner on the road.

We have the misfortune to live a few miles away from the busiest section of the M25 near enought to some towns where the general standard of driving can best be described as appaling. While I'm glad you don't have to do much evasive action, I now feel pleased to get to a destination without someone doing something so odd a collision is almost inevitable.

I'm glad you've got faith in your electonics, would they cope well with someone driving the wrong way around a roundabout straight at you?

How about being in a road with parked cars on either side to leave only a single lane for the traffic - All well and good until someone goes to full throttle directly towards you (while shouting at the kids and on the phone) I doubt your collision avoidance system would steer you up someone's drive to get out of the way.

I don't know how quickly you drive up to a T junction, I usually crawl the last few metres -just in case. A couple of weeks ago, I was doing just this when someone who had so little control of their steering they turned it to the minimum, mounted the kerb to left, bounced into the road, crashed through the kerb on the right and thankfully stopped a few inches short of knocking someones garden wall down.

Do you find it common for people in the faster lane of a dual carriageway to indicate right for the lights before swerving three or four lanes to the left with no concern for any other traffic before doing an emergency stop in the middle of the road and then jumping the red lights and turning right after all.

Can you drive up a hill? There's a really steep one near Redhill in Surrey (It's by the Ann Summers outlet store) I had a narrow escape recently which is worth recounting.

Leading down to the roundabout that exits to the hill is a section of dual carriageway which narrows to a single lane for the roundabout proper. On the way, someone in a big Mercedes estate neatly overtook just as the road was ready to narrow - No problem. At the bottom on the entrance to the roundabout we ended up with three cars in a row; something small red and elderly, the big merc and finally us.

We three set off in line and we were all going the same way, towards the big steep hill. Two of us knew how to drive up a hill, the driver of the leading little red car didn't and as the hill gets steeper as you go up, the red car was getting slower and slower as the gradient increased.

About halfway up, Red ground to a halt and after a few clutch burning goes got moving again before hitting the higher gradient and ground to a halt again.

The Mercedes stopped about 10 feet behind Red while I pulled up in a little tiny layby about 50 yards back. Proper defensive driving as it turned out.

Red has a few goes at a hill start and rolls backwards into the Mercedes. They both get out, decide no damage has been done and the Mercedes then reverses a good 25 yards back to give Red a chance.

Red takes this opportunity to fail a hill start a second time and rolls back into the Mercedes at a far higher speed, to give him his due, Red realised his mistake and slewed the steering at the last moment resulting in a corner to corner impact with the additional bonus of blocking the hill in both directions.

We left them to it, but I'm very aware that if I hadn't been overtaken, Red would have written my car off.

Modern cars are wonderful, but some don't communicate very well to the driver. Safe driving can be done for the most part by knowing what is around you and using gentle braking, or foot off throttle to open a safe space. Sometimes, you've got to drop into low gear and give it everything or perform the kind of steering exercise you'd rather not have to.

While neither of us wishes to perform radical driving maneuvers any more than is utterly neccessary, I do not accept your idea that being able to drive safely can be left to the electronics, you've got to have some idea of what your car can do if you need it to, otherwise you can't feel you know how to drive it.

Last story.

A couple of years ago, we were in town after a period of heavy snow and a hard frost. The cheapest car park in town is a little affair down a side alley and at a pretty severe angle. Ungritted and essentially twenty parking places on a bed of ice.

We'd trundled in with my front wheel drive automatic, no throttle and coasted into parking space. When we got back to the car park there was a South African with a high end BMW who didn't know how to drive on ice.

We tried, we found some cardboard and put it under the wheels, and he put it in the wrong gear and spat them out. We tried again and again, and as he became agitated he was spinning the back wheels harder and harder and every time he tried to set off just rolled backwards towards the other cars further down the car park. I did consider offering to drive the car out for him, but he was so cross at that point, it might have been taken the wrong way.

In the end, we gave up. Got into the Mondeo, put it in drive and slipped out of the car park without any kind of fuss.

I passed my test some considerable time ago, spouse passed theirs before you did. We're both trying to be better drivers, are you?

B.

[AF62]

You've been a bit negative responding to the questions I asked. I accept that my wording is sometimes not the clearest, but you've made some assumptions which depict the intentions of some training in a fast safe environment as an excuse to then drive in an irresponsible manner on the road.

You seem to have been very unfortunate with all those situations you have experienced, but realistically I don't think any sort of training course would solve your problems, let alone the type of training you originally asked about.