Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34, for Donating to support the site

Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

Passion, instruction, buying, care, maintenance and more, any form of vehicle discussion is welcome here
feder1
Lemon Slice
Posts: 477
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 8:28 am
Has thanked: 36 times
Been thanked: 59 times

Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388601

Postby feder1 » February 22nd, 2021, 8:02 am

The future of cars seem confusing to me and if you wanted a car for low mileage leisure purposes and to keep for a long time, is petrol best?

Budget 20-30k.

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7088
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1638 times
Been thanked: 3796 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388603

Postby Mike4 » February 22nd, 2021, 8:06 am

feder1 wrote:The future of cars seem confusing to me and if you wanted a car for low mileage leisure purposes and to keep for a long time, is petrol best?

Budget 20-30k.


Predictably I suppose, I'm going to ask you to explain what you mean by "best".

JohnB
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2497
Joined: January 15th, 2017, 9:20 am
Has thanked: 677 times
Been thanked: 997 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388607

Postby JohnB » February 22nd, 2021, 8:18 am

Today, its a toss-up between petrol and battery, and a lot depends on your usage profile/ability to recharge at home etc. But the pendulum is swinging fast to battery, so luckily as I don't need to decide for a few years, my next car will be electric.

AF62
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3499
Joined: November 27th, 2016, 8:45 am
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 1277 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388609

Postby AF62 » February 22nd, 2021, 8:37 am

Mike4 wrote:
feder1 wrote:The future of cars seem confusing to me and if you wanted a car for low mileage leisure purposes and to keep for a long time, is petrol best?

Budget 20-30k.


Predictably I suppose, I'm going to ask you to explain what you mean by "best".


And also “a long time”.

Petrol cars are not going away any time soon, even if sales of new petrol cars cease.

Electric cars are in a rapid ascent as they are benefiting from low taxation (on purchase, on running, and if a perk of employment), them achieving a useable range (most are well upwards of 200 miles now), and the cost new being similar or cheaper to petrol if paying monthly (which most private new car ‘buyers’ do).

The unknown for the future is the political response to both petrol and electric.

Some cities have already restricted, banned, or put emissions charges on petrol and diesel cars - will this continue or accelerate.

Will the government tolerate the tax loss from electric vehicles; a piece in The Times this weekend calculated that each new electric car lost the government £1,000 a year in tax.

If you were buying a petrol car now to use for five years (a long time?) then no problem. For 10 years (a long time?) then that is passed the point the UK has said it will ban new petrol and diesel cars so I would expect an increase in political moves to exclude them and push people towards electric (or hydrogen). For 20 years then a petrol car is not going to be the norm, but is probably still useable as a leisure car. For 30 years there might be all sorts of issues - will there be any petrol stations.

Nocton
Lemon Slice
Posts: 491
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 11:25 am
Has thanked: 134 times
Been thanked: 138 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388614

Postby Nocton » February 22nd, 2021, 8:45 am

Get yourself a hybrid. We've been driving hybrids for 10 years now and would recommend them as 'best' in every way.
Arguably at present they are greener than pure electric cars as the electricity for an electric car will still mostly come from fossil-fuelled power stations.

swill453
Lemon Half
Posts: 7962
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 6:11 pm
Has thanked: 984 times
Been thanked: 3643 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388615

Postby swill453 » February 22nd, 2021, 8:58 am

AF62 wrote:Will the government tolerate the tax loss from electric vehicles; a piece in The Times this weekend calculated that each new electric car lost the government £1,000 a year in tax.
... I would expect an increase in political moves to exclude them and push people towards electric (or hydrogen).

How do these sums work? If there's already a tax loss, and the balance is predicted to go even further, what's going to make up the difference?

Scott.

dionaeamuscipula
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1095
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 1:25 pm
Has thanked: 101 times
Been thanked: 374 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388631

Postby dionaeamuscipula » February 22nd, 2021, 9:34 am

swill453 wrote:
AF62 wrote:Will the government tolerate the tax loss from electric vehicles; a piece in The Times this weekend calculated that each new electric car lost the government £1,000 a year in tax.
... I would expect an increase in political moves to exclude them and push people towards electric (or hydrogen).

How do these sums work? If there's already a tax loss, and the balance is predicted to go even further, what's going to make up the difference?

Scott.


Good question. There are all sorts of other questions to be asked on future taxation policy which are OT for this board, but which include considering the effect of this and other coming and extant changes in the structure of the economy.

The sensible short term approach would be to increase the tax on petrol and diesel, which would mitigate the tax effect and accelerate the switch towards electric. And also would be generally unpopular.

DM

AF62
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3499
Joined: November 27th, 2016, 8:45 am
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 1277 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388640

Postby AF62 » February 22nd, 2021, 9:58 am

dionaeamuscipula wrote:
swill453 wrote:
AF62 wrote:Will the government tolerate the tax loss from electric vehicles; a piece in The Times this weekend calculated that each new electric car lost the government £1,000 a year in tax.
... I would expect an increase in political moves to exclude them and push people towards electric (or hydrogen).

How do these sums work? If there's already a tax loss, and the balance is predicted to go even further, what's going to make up the difference?

Scott.


Good question. There are all sorts of other questions to be asked on future taxation policy which are OT for this board, but which include considering the effect of this and other coming and extant changes in the structure of the economy.

The sensible short term approach would be to increase the tax on petrol and diesel, which would mitigate the tax effect and accelerate the switch towards electric. And also would be generally unpopular.

DM


If you want to tax electric cars then you either need to tax the fuel or the use of the vehicle as a proxy for the fuel.

The government grant for home charging points now requires them to be 'smart' so you could tax them that way. However you would still have an issue with people evading the tax by using non-smart chargers which they had installed prior to the 'smart' requirement or people charging from a 3 pin plug or commando socket.

If you want to tax use then you introduce road pricing, but since the government would undoubtedly want to use it for reasons other than pure taxation (influence people not to travel at peak times, not to drive into city centres, not to speed...) then there would be a push for it to be required on all new vehicles, otherwise 'Mr Toad' in his new V8 would be seen to be getting away with something 'Miss Perfect' couldn't do in her electric car. But then you have the issue about what you do with legacy cars already on the road.

Personally I have just bought an impractical petrol sportscar to use for fun which I intend to keep for some time, and am about to lease an electric car to use for the daily chores.

Padders72
Lemon Slice
Posts: 318
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:53 pm
Has thanked: 123 times
Been thanked: 177 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388658

Postby Padders72 » February 22nd, 2021, 11:00 am

As already mentioned, today and for the next few years I would go petrol, 5 years from now the picture is less clear. 10 years out the choice will be full electric or hydrogen/electric with the latter gaining significant traction for non urban dwellers or those who need longer range I would imagine and the former being the go to for an about town runabout.

Personally I can't see the sense of a hybrid, to me they combine the worst of both technologies and mean you are lugging around a heavy battery pack the main benefit of which is to circumvent city centre clean air charging rather than a genuine environmental benefit. I would personally steer clear of diesel, the political wind is very much blowing against that fuel and it will likely be the first to disappear from the smaller vehicle scene, in the UK at least. They are still wedded to diesel as a fuel for cars in continental Europe so it may linger on there longer I guess.

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7088
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1638 times
Been thanked: 3796 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388664

Postby Mike4 » February 22nd, 2021, 11:09 am

Padders72 wrote:
Personally I can't see the sense of a hybrid, to me they combine the worst of both technologies and mean you are lugging around a heavy battery pack the main benefit of which is to circumvent city centre clean air charging rather than a genuine environmental benefit.


As I understand it, the point of a hybrid is to get the tax benefits, whilst being able to run it on petrol 100% of the time. This is why so many private hire taxis are Nissan Leafs. Or maybe this benefit has changed now.

Padders72
Lemon Slice
Posts: 318
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:53 pm
Has thanked: 123 times
Been thanked: 177 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388667

Postby Padders72 » February 22nd, 2021, 11:15 am

Mike4 wrote:
Padders72 wrote:
Personally I can't see the sense of a hybrid, to me they combine the worst of both technologies and mean you are lugging around a heavy battery pack the main benefit of which is to circumvent city centre clean air charging rather than a genuine environmental benefit.


As I understand it, the point of a hybrid is to get the tax benefits, whilst being able to run it on petrol 100% of the time. This is why so many private hire taxis are Nissan Leafs. Or maybe this benefit has changed now.


Your point is valid but the Leaf is a small full electric hatch with a ~80-120 mile range, you likely mean the Toyota Prius or similar.
Last edited by Padders72 on February 22nd, 2021, 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7088
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1638 times
Been thanked: 3796 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388668

Postby Mike4 » February 22nd, 2021, 11:17 am

swill453 wrote:
AF62 wrote:Will the government tolerate the tax loss from electric vehicles; a piece in The Times this weekend calculated that each new electric car lost the government £1,000 a year in tax.
... I would expect an increase in political moves to exclude them and push people towards electric (or hydrogen).

How do these sums work? If there's already a tax loss, and the balance is predicted to go even further, what's going to make up the difference?

Scott.


I think the simplest way is for the govt to implement 'road pricing'. A tax per mile pitched to the public as replacement for the tax currently charged on fuel. It could be introduced at a really low rate then ramped up over the years (like IPT). This way vehicles running on dino-juice pay twice, creating a gradually increasing financial pressure to switch over to electric.

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7088
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1638 times
Been thanked: 3796 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388670

Postby Mike4 » February 22nd, 2021, 11:18 am

Padders72 wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
Padders72 wrote:
Personally I can't see the sense of a hybrid, to me they combine the worst of both technologies and mean you are lugging around a heavy battery pack the main benefit of which is to circumvent city centre clean air charging rather than a genuine environmental benefit.


As I understand it, the point of a hybrid is to get the tax benefits, whilst being able to run it on petrol 100% of the time. This is why so many private hire taxis are Nissan Leafs. Or maybe this benefit has changed now.


Your point is valid but the Leaf is a tiny full electric hatch with a ~80-120 mile range, you likely mean the Toyota Prius or similar.


Correct, yes I meant the Prius! Thanks :)

DrFfybes
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3733
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 10:25 pm
Has thanked: 1171 times
Been thanked: 1964 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388690

Postby DrFfybes » February 22nd, 2021, 12:05 pm

feder1 wrote:The future of cars seem confusing to me and if you wanted a car for low mileage leisure purposes and to keep for a long time, is petrol best?

Budget 20-30k.


You don't say what type of car you want, SUV, supermini, luxury saloon, etc. or what is important - range, comfort, running costs, depreciation, etc.

Low mileage, leisure use, keeping for 10 years, and able to easily charge at home - Buy something fully electric with 200+ mile range.

If you can't charge it easily, then small petrol engine for half your budget and wait.

If you want a luxury SUV then Maserati Levante ;)

Paul

DrFfybes
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3733
Joined: November 6th, 2016, 10:25 pm
Has thanked: 1171 times
Been thanked: 1964 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388692

Postby DrFfybes » February 22nd, 2021, 12:06 pm

AF62 wrote:
Personally I have just bought an impractical petrol sportscar to use for fun which I intend to keep for some time, and am about to lease an electric car to use for the daily chores.


Go one, spill the beans.

Is it a Morgan?

Paul

kiloran
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4092
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:24 am
Has thanked: 3234 times
Been thanked: 2827 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388698

Postby kiloran » February 22nd, 2021, 12:35 pm

Mike4 wrote:
Padders72 wrote:
Personally I can't see the sense of a hybrid, to me they combine the worst of both technologies and mean you are lugging around a heavy battery pack the main benefit of which is to circumvent city centre clean air charging rather than a genuine environmental benefit.


As I understand it, the point of a hybrid is to get the tax benefits, whilst being able to run it on petrol 100% of the time. This is why so many private hire taxis are Nissan Leafs. Or maybe this benefit has changed now.

I think the point of a hybrid is to have the benefit of petrol for long range on the open road, with the ability to run on electric in town centres and other congested built-up areas to reduce pollution.Any pollution is bad, but its effect is particularly bad in towns and cities

--kiloran

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7088
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1638 times
Been thanked: 3796 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388710

Postby Mike4 » February 22nd, 2021, 12:58 pm

kiloran wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
Padders72 wrote:
Personally I can't see the sense of a hybrid, to me they combine the worst of both technologies and mean you are lugging around a heavy battery pack the main benefit of which is to circumvent city centre clean air charging rather than a genuine environmental benefit.


As I understand it, the point of a hybrid is to get the tax benefits, whilst being able to run it on petrol 100% of the time. This is why so many private hire taxis are Nissan Leafs. Or maybe this benefit has changed now.

I think the point of a hybrid is to have the benefit of petrol for long range on the open road, with the ability to run on electric in town centres and other congested built-up areas to reduce pollution.Any pollution is bad, but its effect is particularly bad in towns and cities

--kiloran


Yes certainly that is the fig leaf offered to buyers. The buyers buy them for the reasons I set out though, I suspect.

Are you really suggesting all the Prius Taxis out there go home between each job to recharge for an hour?

airbus330
Lemon Slice
Posts: 559
Joined: December 1st, 2018, 3:55 pm
Has thanked: 364 times
Been thanked: 288 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388718

Postby airbus330 » February 22nd, 2021, 1:27 pm

The future is very unclear what the right choice is. Personally, as a fan of the infernal combustion engine I will probably be a late starter in the leccy car game, but also acknowledge that petrol/diesel are now in the last throws of life. From a life dealing with complex electro-mechanical machines I pretty keen not to be an early adopter of new technology! Like many, I don't buy new cars and rather allow the first owner to take the depreciation hit. For traditional cars there are years of data to guide you to purchase a reasonably reliable 2nd. hand car, which will be reasonable in price to fix if it goes wrong. None of this info is there for leccy cars or hybrids, even though some hybrids like the Prius have been around for a good time, the numbers in use are still quite small compared to conventional cars. The only promising thing I have read is that on current data leccy cars seem to be quite reliable, but since the majority are less than 3 years old and being a small cohort, is this reliable data? Also, will the same hold true for the 2nd. or 3rd. users? This is before you even approach battery life. So, there would be only one logical way to deal with the OP's question. Yes, today I would buy outright a petrol car. If I felt the need to go leccy, I'd lease and dispose of when the warranty ended.

AF62
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3499
Joined: November 27th, 2016, 8:45 am
Has thanked: 131 times
Been thanked: 1277 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388720

Postby AF62 » February 22nd, 2021, 1:34 pm

DrFfybes wrote:
AF62 wrote:
Personally I have just bought an impractical petrol sportscar to use for fun which I intend to keep for some time, and am about to lease an electric car to use for the daily chores.


Go one, spill the beans.

Is it a Morgan?

Paul


Not that wealthy! A Fiat 124, and looking at a Renault Zoe for the electric car.

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7088
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1638 times
Been thanked: 3796 times

Re: Would you buy a new petrol engine car today?

#388726

Postby Mike4 » February 22nd, 2021, 1:43 pm

airbus330 wrote:The only promising thing I have read is that on current data leccy cars seem to be quite reliable, but since the majority are less than 3 years old and being a small cohort, is this reliable data?


I think it probably is, because an electric car is WAY less complex mechanically than an equivalent ICE car, although I am by no means expert on the subject. From what I hear (third hand) about Teslas, far more problems occur in the software than in the mechanics.


Return to “Cars, Driving, Motorbikes or any Transport”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests