Thoughts on driving in America

[DrFfybes]

It's here too, rule 169 of the Highway Code. The concept of "holding up" other road users in their attempt to break the speed limit would be laughed out of court though.
Scott.

I can't find the report, but there was a case of someone deliberately driving in the outside lane at the posted limit being prosecuted for DWDCA

Middle Lane hoggers have been fined, and this chap at 40mph was not really a deliberate attempt to hold up, and rather extreme, but..
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news ... ly-4533850

https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/ ... slow-lane/
Looks like this was just given a warning.

Paul

[XFool]

Roundabouts are not laid out by an arts student with a compass.

You sure about that? The case for the prosecution:

Magic Roundabout in Swindon
Dodgy roundabout of 6 centred around a 7th in Hemel Hempsted (can't remember the name)
A43/M40 Junction close to Baynards Green
I am sure others will chip in with similar traffic travesties

Ha, ha! Takes me back.

There are more 'Magic' roundabouts. I thought there was one in Milton Keynes (of course!) and St. Albans, but that is likely the Hemel Hempstead one:

I don't know about "traffic travesty" but this all came up - along with many other things - in a record breaking thread on a TomTom forum several moons ago. But that's another story.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic_Roundabout_%28Swindon%29#See_also

They do make sense, honestly. The thing is, not to regard the Big Circle itself as a roundabout (which it isn't), or you may end up, in some circumstances, thinking you are driving the wrong way around "a roundabout".

BTW. In Birmingham "roundabouts" are called "traffic islands" (or were).

[swill453]

It's here too, rule 169 of the Highway Code. The concept of "holding up" other road users in their attempt to break the speed limit would be laughed out of court though.

I can't find the report, but there was a case of someone deliberately driving in the outside lane at the posted limit being prosecuted for DWDCA

Middle Lane hoggers have been fined, and this chap at 40mph was not really a deliberate attempt to hold up, and rather extreme, but..
https://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/news ... ly-4533850

https://www.chesterstandard.co.uk/news/ ... slow-lane/
Looks like this was just given a warning.

The context of my comment was a single carriageway, so that's not relevant. I even continued, in the same post, to say

assume I'm not suggesting anyone should hog an overtaking lane

Scott.

[XFool]

Yes, New York is one state where you are not allowed to turn right on red, although it gets ignored a lot. It makes more sense in New York City due to the number of pedestrians.

Right on Red is allowed in New York State. It's New York City that prohibits right on red.

Jeez! Doesn't sound to me as if driving in the US is quite the breeze Lootman is making out...

[Lootman]

Also many intersections also have crosswalks and drivers are required to wait until they are clear before turning, regardless.

Almost all intersections have crosswalks. Markings are not needed. Google "unmarked crosswalks".*

Yes, someone else explained this to me. In practice what seems to happen is that cars defer to people already on the crosswalk, and pedestrians defer to cars if they are on or close to the crosswalk. As noted before drivers seems to be more considerate of pedestrians than in the UK but, even so, over 100 pedestrians are killed every year in LA.

I've spent a lot of time in the USA. In various States roundabouts are called Traffic Circles. In fact my USA sat Nav uses the term Traffic Circles. I've not heard of the term 4 way stops.

Yes, I know, but there aren't many of them and many drivers have never encountered one. In 2 months here I have seen precisely one.

4-way stops are also called All-Way stops although usually there are 4 roads because of the grid system that most US cities follow. I mentioned earlier there are also 2-way stops.

Yes, New York is one state where you are not allowed to turn right on red, although it gets ignored a lot. It makes more sense in New York City due to the number of pedestrians.

Right on Red is allowed in New York State. It's New York City that prohibits right on red.

Jeez! Doesn't sound to me as if driving in the US is quite the breeze Lootman is making out...

I never said driving here was a breeze. I said that in some aspects it is easier. Partly that is due to some benign rules and customs, and partly due to the fact that roads and lanes are wider. There is one short stretch of freeway in LA that has 22 lanes - 11 in each direction!

I can't find the report, but there was a case of someone deliberately driving in the outside lane at the posted limit being prosecuted for DWDCA

Yes, I imagine the police would take a very dim view of someone seeking in that way to somehow enforce the speed limit on others.

[swill453]

I can't find the report, but there was a case of someone deliberately driving in the outside lane at the posted limit being prosecuted for DWDCA

Yes, I imagine the police would take a very dim view of someone seeking in that way to somehow enforce the speed limit on others.

Agree completely.

Scott.

[quelquod]

It’s a while ago now so things may well have changed, but I remember driving in rural US where either the law or possibly just the norm at unsigned crossroads was first come first served and drivers politely waited their turn. Being a U.K. driver I just shot off tailgating the car in front causing lots of tooting and nearly a bump.

[Lootman]

It’s a while ago now so things may well have changed, but I remember driving in rural US where either the law or possibly just the norm at unsigned crossroads was first come first served and drivers politely waited their turn. Being a U.K. driver I just shot off tailgating the car in front causing lots of tooting and nearly a bump.

Yes, that is basically the four-way stop I described. If four cars all arrive at about the same time then each driver has to make a judgement about who was there first, as that is the driver who is allowed to proceed first.

For the most part it seems to work because people are reasonable. And one proceeds with caution in such a situation because of possible misunderstandings. There is the concept of a "rolling stop" where a vehicle does not come to the necessary halt before moving on, but just slows down enough to see if the path is clear. In that sense it is a bit like approaching a roundabout where you slow down but, with luck, do not have to completely stop.

That said, failing to stop at a stop sign or light is a $300 fine, even if turning right.

[swill453]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone come to a complete stop at a stop sign* in the UK (the hexagonal red sign). Self probably included. Despite it being as mandatory as the US, though seemingly not enforced.

EDIT * - Unless they were blocked by other traffic, of course.

Scott.

[DrFfybes]

As noted before drivers seems to be more considerate of pedestrians than in the UK but, even so, over 100 pedestrians are killed every year in LA.

That is pretty high compared to the UK. With a population of 4 million in LA and 70m in the UK, we have IIRC about 400 deaths and 4000 injuries per annum.

Paul

[didds]

Whereas US drivers are surprisingly considerate towards crossing pedestrians, I have found.

maybe its because the pedestrians may have a gun.

didds

[GrahamPlatt]

Pete Atkin, Clive James: Driving through mythical America

https://youtu.be/NrUosW8Z7KE

[Dod101]

Yesterday, I approached a mini roundabout (as we in the UK call a circle painted in the middle of the US 'Four way Stop' junction) There was a car stopped to my immediate right, so this being a roundabout, I gave him the right of way. I also noticed other vehicles round and about. The fellow on my immediate right remained where he was so I gingerly moved forward. As I did so another vehicle came round and we just missed each other. He was actually directly across the mini roundabout from me and clearly decided, like me, to move forward.

Mini roundabouts are dangerous because unlike the full sized ones, there is no escape route and if a vehicle is sitting at each exit they could sit there all day because of the rule at roundabouts (mini or otherwise); give way to the vehicle on your right.

In this case, I think it would be better to have Give Way signs on the minor roads but our local Council seems to like mini roundabouts. The same problem must be common at US Four Way Stops.

Dod

[88V8]

The four-way stop.. where as said one has to determine who arrived first... the Intersection of Indecision.

My recollections of driving in the US are confined to CA and the Boston area in pre-satnav times:
= The very short interval between a freeway exit sign and the exit-
- the tight curves on the exits
- the lack of signposting once one is off the freeway
- the inability of the local police to give directions
- the squishy cars with their galleon-in-a-gale handling
- the gigantic 'where did I leave the car'... carparks

And the almost total lack of out-of-town pedestrians. In a party of Brits, Boston burbs, we decided to walk to a restaurant, about a mile, often no sidewalks, and people looked at us as if we were mad.

V8

[bluedonkey]

The four-way stop.. where as said one has to determine who arrived first... the Intersection of Indecision.

My recollections of driving in the US are confined to CA and the Boston area in pre-satnav times:
= The very short interval between a freeway exit sign and the exit-
- the tight curves on the exits
- the lack of signposting once one is off the freeway
- the inability of the local police to give directions
- the squishy cars with their galleon-in-a-gale handling
- the gigantic 'where did I leave the car'... carparks

And the almost total lack of out-of-town pedestrians. In a party of Brits, Boston burbs, we decided to walk to a restaurant, about a mile, often no sidewalks, and people looked at us as if we were mad.

V8

I lived in Newton, MA for a while and I agree with all of that!

[Dod101]

And the almost total lack of out-of-town pedestrians. In a party of Brits, Boston burbs, we decided to walk to a restaurant, about a mile, often no sidewalks, and people looked at us as if we were mad.

I was in downtown LA on business once and on a Sunday morning decided to get some fresh air by taking a walk from my hotel. About a mile or so from it a cop car stopped by me and the guy asked me what I was doing there. When they discovered that I was a weird Brit they let me go but advised me to retrace my steps to the hotel.

Dod

[swill453]

A bunch of us were in a night club in Fort Lauderdale. At chucking out time we spilled out with everyone else. Within 5 minutes every single other person had got into cars and made off. We were now in a car park outside a locked club, no taxi rank, no payphones (it was the 80s), in the dead of night with not a soul or open premises around.

We eventually had to walk to a hotel and call a cab from there.

Scott.

[bluedonkey]

Going OT but the mention of a nightclub in America reminds me of the over the top ID'ing for one's age. I was in my mid-30s but was refused a drink because I didn't have ID.

[Dod101]

That's another thing. My wife and I visited Savannah one year around Christmas. Quiet, few tourists and a great climate at that time of the year. My wife got tickets for a Christmas concert so we jumped into a cab at our hotel- did not really know where we were going - and afterwards expected to get a cab back. After the concert however it was much as swill453 describes. At the end the crowd just vanished into cars and we were left outside the concert hall which was soon locked up and naturally not a cab in sight. We walked until we found a drinking establishment, went in there, had a couple of drinks and asked them to call a cab for us. I had forgotten that. Strange place the US.

Dod

[Watis]

The four-way stop.. where as said one has to determine who arrived first... the Intersection of Indecision.

My recollections of driving in the US are confined to CA and the Boston area in pre-satnav times:
= The very short interval between a freeway exit sign and the exit-
- the tight curves on the exits
- the lack of signposting once one is off the freeway
- the inability of the local police to give directions
- the squishy cars with their galleon-in-a-gale handling
- the gigantic 'where did I leave the car'... carparks

And the almost total lack of out-of-town pedestrians. In a party of Brits, Boston burbs, we decided to walk to a restaurant, about a mile, often no sidewalks, and people looked at us as if we were mad.

V8

Ah, yes. I last drove in the US a few years ago, in some of the Eastern States.

In addition to the exits often having tight curves, there are often exits on exits! You really need to be in the right lane if you need to take one.

And a roundabout with two lanes on the access roads and the roundabout itself. No matter, the traffic entered and used the roundabout in single file.

Watis