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UK cuts electric car subsidies.

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Arborbridge
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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398599

Postby Arborbridge » March 24th, 2021, 10:59 am

AF62 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:And in addition to all the disadvantages, I'm still getting my head round why I would want to do this elecric thingy, particularly from a capital POV.

For instance, someone here was writing about taking delivery of a new Kia - I think the cost is around £36k. A quick glance at the Merc site shows I could buy a replacement for my B-class - another new car - for around £25-26k, either petrol or diesel. I'd have to be dedicated to justify the difference in cost between the two

A hybrid might be on the cards, but just at the moment, it seems too early for an electric.

Arb.


What is the depreciation on a new B class over 3 years? £12k+? Fuel £3.5k? RFL £500? So a £16k cost of use. A leased Kia over the same period £14.5k and perhaps £300 fuel cost and no RFL.


But I've had my B-class 6 years - so what happens then?

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398604

Postby AF62 » March 24th, 2021, 11:24 am

Arborbridge wrote:
AF62 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:And in addition to all the disadvantages, I'm still getting my head round why I would want to do this elecric thingy, particularly from a capital POV.

For instance, someone here was writing about taking delivery of a new Kia - I think the cost is around £36k. A quick glance at the Merc site shows I could buy a replacement for my B-class - another new car - for around £25-26k, either petrol or diesel. I'd have to be dedicated to justify the difference in cost between the two

A hybrid might be on the cards, but just at the moment, it seems too early for an electric.

Arb.


What is the depreciation on a new B class over 3 years? £12k+? Fuel £3.5k? RFL £500? So a £16k cost of use. A leased Kia over the same period £14.5k and perhaps £300 fuel cost and no RFL.


But I've had my B-class 6 years - so what happens then?


It has depreciated even more, cost more in fuel and RFL, plus MOTs and the gamble that anything breaks!

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398608

Postby JohnB » March 24th, 2021, 11:32 am

The total cost of a vehicle over its lifetime is purchase price+tax+fuel+servicing, spread across all owners.

It looks as if BEVs are already competitive, for while their batteries might add £10k to the purchase price, the lower tax, servicing and fuel cost (and probably longer lifetime, as there is less to go wrong) compensate for that.

Mr Market will adjust prices for BEV and IC to reflect that, so all stages a BEV will have residual value difference to a IC, and a perceived TCO to end of life. Currently this is a little in favour of ICs, and the market is relying on purchasers with a social conscience to make up the difference. In 5 years I'd expect the reverse to be true, as BEVs will be viewed as the cheaper option.

Governments are applying subsidies and adjusting tax rates to ensure keep the BEV premium down, and are planning to remove these market distortions by the late 2020s, as by then a BEV will be the choice for all but petrolheads.

I'm not in the market for a different car, but if mine were written off tomorrow, I'd buy a 3 yo IC, as they are a better deal than 3yo BEVs. But when I do come to the market in 5 years time, I expect the situation to have reversed. And that is the government plan, they don't want everyone to buy electric vehicles now, as there is not the supply, but they want to ensure we all do so without qualms by 2030.

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398613

Postby JohnB » March 24th, 2021, 11:55 am

PS in 5 years time, if you want a new model car it will be a BEV, as the manufacturers will have moved from shoehorning batteries into IC chassis to doing a range of different sized BEV chassis and putting different bodyshells on it. They are not going to tool up a production line for a model that they can only sell in the Western world for a limited period. So when you buy a new IC in 2028, it will be 2020 design with styling tweaked in 2024.

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398667

Postby Arborbridge » March 24th, 2021, 3:53 pm

AF62 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
AF62 wrote:
What is the depreciation on a new B class over 3 years? £12k+? Fuel £3.5k? RFL £500? So a £16k cost of use. A leased Kia over the same period £14.5k and perhaps £300 fuel cost and no RFL.


But I've had my B-class 6 years - so what happens then?


It has depreciated even more, cost more in fuel and RFL, plus MOTs and the gamble that anything breaks!


And the electric version? All cars depreciate. And the battery failure cost? Did I read a possible £10,000 somewhere?

I suppose one of my problems is that the I find the finance model you are proposing is baffling. Not something I have been brought up with, indeed it's something I am averse to. It seems complex and putting your fortune in someone else's control. I come from a time when the buying something outright was lways cheaper that being in hock to someone else and giving them a cut, so it'll take a mountainous rethink to throw modify that life time of thinking.
If I buy a car, I know what I am doing. If I go into some fancy contract with a grey suit, I do not know what I'm getting into as regards clever clause designed to rob me, or t least some sort of doubt hanging ocer me for seversl years.

And all that on top of the "electric hesitancy" I feel from the genuine downsides or unknown areas, along with the obvious problems of finding anything out about any car just now. I mean, gone are the days you could just wander round showrooms and casually poke around.

Arb

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398668

Postby Arborbridge » March 24th, 2021, 3:56 pm

JohnB wrote:PS in 5 years time, if you want a new model car it will be a BEV, as the manufacturers will have moved from shoehorning batteries into IC chassis to doing a range of different sized BEV chassis and putting different bodyshells on it. They are not going to tool up a production line for a model that they can only sell in the Western world for a limited period. So when you buy a new IC in 2028, it will be 2020 design with styling tweaked in 2024.


Your previous two posts do rather support my gut feeling: it's just too early to buy a BEV right now. Much better to wait, buy an IC or possibly have a hybrid in the meantime.

I just don't see a compelling case for becoming a guinea pig.


Arb.

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398681

Postby AF62 » March 24th, 2021, 4:37 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
JohnB wrote:PS in 5 years time, if you want a new model car it will be a BEV, as the manufacturers will have moved from shoehorning batteries into IC chassis to doing a range of different sized BEV chassis and putting different bodyshells on it. They are not going to tool up a production line for a model that they can only sell in the Western world for a limited period. So when you buy a new IC in 2028, it will be 2020 design with styling tweaked in 2024.


Your previous two posts do rather support my gut feeling: it's just too early to buy a BEV right now. Much better to wait, buy an IC or possibly have a hybrid in the meantime.

I just don't see a compelling case for becoming a guinea pig.


Arb.


Depends on how long you intend to keep it. If you are keeping it for many years it probably is, but if you change your car every few years it won’t make any difference.

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398707

Postby vrdiver » March 24th, 2021, 6:55 pm

I'm with Arb on the "buy don't lease" preference. I suspect I could get a car cheaper by leasing, but the worry that my theoretical costs will go out of the window when the salesman sees all the little scratches, dents, scuffs and other "normal" signs of usage, make me think that come hand-back day, my lease car will be exchanged for a hefty invoice :o Combine that with having to agree a mileage cap, and for me the peace-of-mind factor sways me to buying a car, mentally writing it off to some unchallenging resale value and knowing I won't be stung further. Of course, when the engine falls out and the wheels fall off, I'm on the hook, but somehow I feel more comfortable with that than leasing...

But back to BEVs. My current thinking is that I'll be in the market for a new car around the end of 2023. Lack of use in 2020 has meant I can keep the current car a little longer (aim is 10 years/200,000 miles, whichever comes second). At that point I'll be looking at a BEV and very unlikely to buy anything else, even a hybrid. Whether I buy new or look for something 12 months old will depend on the price differential and whatever technological advances a 12 month old car would mean giving up. At the point of purchase I can justify the extra cost simply by the length of ownership I plan.

I'm hoping that BEV in 2022/2023 will be full of goodies like range extension and price competition, rather than the "bleeding edge" technology it currently feels like. I love new technology, but not enough to open my wallet without a lot of soul searching first!

VRD

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398741

Postby AF62 » March 24th, 2021, 9:07 pm

vrdiver wrote:I'm with Arb on the "buy don't lease" preference. I suspect I could get a car cheaper by leasing, but the worry that my theoretical costs will go out of the window when the salesman sees all the little scratches, dents, scuffs and other "normal" signs of usage, make me think that come hand-back day, my lease car will be exchanged for a hefty invoice :o


So a real cost against the hidden cost of the reduced trade in value :D - money is money.

vrdiver wrote:Combine that with having to agree a mileage cap,


Provided the excess mileage charge is not bonkers that is not an issue, and in fact as 2020 demonstrated, it can be more sensible to underestimate and to pay the excess mileage rather than to 'buy' too large an allowance upfront.

vrdiver wrote:and for me the peace-of-mind factor sways me to buying a car, mentally writing it off to some unchallenging resale value and knowing I won't be stung further.


You remind me of a friend from many years ago who commented that the first loaf from their breadmaker cost £100, and all the subsequent ones cost 5p.

vrdiver wrote:But back to BEVs. My current thinking is that I'll be in the market for a new car around the end of 2023. Lack of use in 2020 has meant I can keep the current car a little longer (aim is 10 years/200,000 miles, whichever comes second). At that point I'll be looking at a BEV and very unlikely to buy anything else, even a hybrid. Whether I buy new or look for something 12 months old will depend on the price differential and whatever technological advances a 12 month old car would mean giving up. At the point of purchase I can justify the extra cost simply by the length of ownership I plan.

I'm hoping that BEV in 2022/2023 will be full of goodies like range extension and price competition, rather than the "bleeding edge" technology it currently feels like. I love new technology, but not enough to open my wallet without a lot of soul searching first!

VRD


And that is part of my thinking.

My partner and I both took early retirement in January, having both commuted into London for many years by train when we only needed one car.

Now two cars seem sensible, and after trading in the existing 'station commuter car' for a 'not sensible' car (discussed elsewhere) the issue was the other car. Did we actually need two - probably, but not certainly. EVs seemed to be going through a bit of a step change with an awful lot of manufacturers releasing new cars over the next year or two so buying one didn't seem sensible. Second hand EVs appeared to be overpriced. And doing the maths, leasing an EV for a couple of years would be broadly the same as buying anything similar without the hassle of disposing of it at the end if we decided that two cars were not needed.

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398770

Postby Howard » March 24th, 2021, 10:51 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
AF62 wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
But I've had my B-class 6 years - so what happens then?


It has depreciated even more, cost more in fuel and RFL, plus MOTs and the gamble that anything breaks!


And the electric version? All cars depreciate. And the battery failure cost? Did I read a possible £10,000 somewhere?

I suppose one of my problems is that the I find the finance model you are proposing is baffling. Not something I have been brought up with, indeed it's something I am averse to. It seems complex and putting your fortune in someone else's control. I come from a time when the buying something outright was lways cheaper that being in hock to someone else and giving them a cut, so it'll take a mountainous rethink to throw modify that life time of thinking.
If I buy a car, I know what I am doing. If I go into some fancy contract with a grey suit, I do not know what I'm getting into as regards clever clause designed to rob me, or t least some sort of doubt hanging ocer me for seversl years.

And all that on top of the "electric hesitancy" I feel from the genuine downsides or unknown areas, along with the obvious problems of finding anything out about any car just now. I mean, gone are the days you could just wander round showrooms and casually poke around.

Arb


Arborbridge wrote:For instance, someone here was writing about taking delivery of a new Kia - I think the cost is around £36k. A quick glance at the Merc site shows I could buy a replacement for my B-class - another new car - for around £25-26k, either petrol or diesel. I'd have to be dedicated to justify the difference in cost between the two.

Arb.


I’m probably the guy you referred to who has just leased a KIA Soul EV.

It’s our second car, so won’t do a high mileage.

Leasing isn’t for everyone, but if one is a consumer who changes their car every three years or so it has a lot of benefits.

I understand why people buy second hand cars but we are all different. This is an investment site and some of us long term investors are happy to use our investment income to finance shiny new cars. If one fits into that category, leasing might be a good idea. Especially if one wants trouble-free motoring.

The KIA (after UK subsidies) costs around £250 a month to lease over three years with six months up front. So it’s a 6 + 35 deal. It replaces a Golf 1.4 petrol auto which was leased for three years and cost almost exactly the same per month. Both cars costs include a maintenance contract and road tax if applicable. So there’s nothing more to pay except the insurance which is the same as if I owned the car. And, of course, the electricity!

A new B Class Mercedes B250e AMG Line Premium 5dr Auto, would cost around £350 a month for a 6 + 35 lease including maintenance. So a lot more than a KIA EV. (See leasing.com for rates.)

All prices above are for a low mileage car, under 10k miles per year.

I have had a couple of punctures in the last five years. Both times on leased cars with unusual tyres. With a maintenance contract, it’s a quick call to the leasing company and very quickly a Tyre company van turns up and replaces the tyre (free of charge). On both occasions I asked the tyre fitter how much I would have had to pay as a private customer. Both times they laughed and informed me that, no way would a private individual get an immediate home replacement service - and the cost would be over £400. Leasing companies are such huge customers that they get premium service for their clients.

If like us, one is happy with a car with a claimed range of 280 miles the KIA is a brilliant vehicle. I was amazed at the high spec. And fun to drive. Just say “take me home” to the SatNav and it sets itself. With warnings if there are delays ahead.

With a home charger, I doubt if we will ever charge at a Motorway service station, except for fun. In theory, if we want to go on a 350 mile journey then, yes, it will take around half an hour to top up the battery on route. To be honest at the moment, we’d go in my ICE car with a range of 600 miles!

My brief experience of motorway driving in the KIA at 70 mph is that the range will drop to around 250 miles and probably less if facing rain plus strong headwinds.

Using a 7kW charger in my garage, topping up the car overnight takes around four hours to put in around 100 miles.

I have to admit it is a fun car to drive. Quiet and very comfortable for a fairly small car. And, of course acceleration at all speeds is impressive!

So this type of car would be suitable for someone who can charge at home and who travels up to 200 miles a day and who seldom travels on journeys over 200 miles. I guess this makes it viable for a large proportion of motorists who have the benefit of off-road charging

regards

Howard

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398888

Postby DrFfybes » March 25th, 2021, 12:25 pm

Arborbridge wrote:But I've had my B-class 6 years - so what happens then?


You BUY a car?

How quaint. Don't you realise that all modern cars suffer horrible and massively expensive failures as soon as they fall outside of warranty/lease period? Far better to take the extra depreciation safe in the knowledge that when something does go wrong your monthly payments give you peace of mind?
;)

Howard wrote:[
I’m probably the guy you referred to who has just leased a KIA Soul EV.

It’s our second car, so won’t do a high mileage.

Leasing isn’t for everyone, but if one is a consumer who changes their car every three years or so it has a lot of benefits.

I understand why people buy second hand cars but we are all different. This is an investment site and some of us long term investors are happy to use our investment income to finance shiny new cars. If one fits into that category, leasing might be a good idea. Especially if one wants trouble-free motoring.


This is probably the most sensible thing I've seen on this - we all rate risk versus rewards, and balance one against the other differently. For many long term rental of a car is money down the drain - paying a tenner a day for a second car that sits on the drive 4 or 5 days out of 7 seems a waste for the convenience of not waiting for a taxi. For others the extra depreciation cost for the first 3 years over the second 3 is worth it for the peace of mind and security that they have nothing more to pay and no potential big bills.

Leasing is something that we would not consider.
However, we have 4 cars (plus a bike arriving next month). Last year we spent nearly £2k on servicing (half of that on one of them) VED is £800 after the winter SORN) depreciation is probably £1k/year as one is appreciating, 2 are static, so only the 4 year old Avensis is dropping in value. Total insurance is about £650 so before we drive them we're getting on for the £350/month of a lease, and that is on top of the initial outlay. But given a choice of 4 reliability doesn't factor too much - the RAC will take us home and we take another one out. Besides, 2 of them are Toyotas :)

But for me the risk of leasing is too high - because the risk to me is something happens and I am saddled with a £4k/year bill for something I don't want or need any more, and I can't just punt it on ebay and get some cash back. The other week I was at the local food bank, and a large number of the cars in the car park were nearly new Golfs, Audi, A-class, etc. These were people who'd committed to funding a 30k car habit and now found themselves struggling to feed their children. But I'll bet some were also struggling to afford a cambelt service on a 7 year old Fiat.

Paul

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398934

Postby Howard » March 25th, 2021, 3:32 pm

DrFfybes wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:But I've had my B-class 6 years - so what happens then?


You BUY a car?

How quaint. Don't you realise that all modern cars suffer horrible and massively expensive failures as soon as they fall outside of warranty/lease period? Far better to take the extra depreciation safe in the knowledge that when something does go wrong your monthly payments give you peace of mind?
;)

Howard wrote:[
I’m probably the guy you referred to who has just leased a KIA Soul EV.

It’s our second car, so won’t do a high mileage.

Leasing isn’t for everyone, but if one is a consumer who changes their car every three years or so it has a lot of benefits.

I understand why people buy second hand cars but we are all different. This is an investment site and some of us long term investors are happy to use our investment income to finance shiny new cars. If one fits into that category, leasing might be a good idea. Especially if one wants trouble-free motoring.




This is probably the most sensible thing I've seen on this - we all rate risk versus rewards, and balance one against the other differently. For many long term rental of a car is money down the drain - paying a tenner a day for a second car that sits on the drive 4 or 5 days out of 7 seems a waste for the convenience of not waiting for a taxi. For others the extra depreciation cost for the first 3 years over the second 3 is worth it for the peace of mind and security that they have nothing more to pay and no potential big bills.

Leasing is something that we would not consider.
However, we have 4 cars (plus a bike arriving next month). Last year we spent nearly £2k on servicing (half of that on one of them) VED is £800 after the winter SORN) depreciation is probably £1k/year as one is appreciating, 2 are static, so only the 4 year old Avensis is dropping in value. Total insurance is about £650 so before we drive them we're getting on for the £350/month of a lease, and that is on top of the initial outlay. But given a choice of 4 reliability doesn't factor too much - the RAC will take us home and we take another one out. Besides, 2 of them are Toyotas :)

But for me the risk of leasing is too high - because the risk to me is something happens and I am saddled with a £4k/year bill for something I don't want or need any more, and I can't just punt it on ebay and get some cash back. The other week I was at the local food bank, and a large number of the cars in the car park were nearly new Golfs, Audi, A-class, etc. These were people who'd committed to funding a 30k car habit and now found themselves struggling to feed their children. But I'll bet some were also struggling to afford a cambelt service on a 7 year old Fiat.

Paul


I don't disagree with you as we all have different preferences and resources.

But, if something happens which means returning a leased car early, the penalties aren't necessarily that high. I actually returned the Golf three months before the lease expired. The reason was that I'd got a good deal on the KIA, and although the dealership would have kept the car for me and registered it in June, to be honest, I was impatient :( to get the KIA.

When I checked the surrender value, the penalty for returning early was around £100 and, of course, I didn't have to pay the final three month's instalments. I may have been helped by the current situation as the second-hand value of the Golf was probably much higher than the lease company predicted at the beginning of the lease because of the current high demand for low mileage used cars. The process for early surrender is easy and only takes a phone call to set up. Obviously the car is inspected to check that it is in reasonable condition. I have never had a problem with this as I'm a sad individual who regularly washes his leased car, looks after it and usually parks at the other end of Tesco's car park (and am I allowed in these woke times to say that I have Mrs H well-trained in this art) ;) .

regards

Howard

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398936

Postby Arborbridge » March 25th, 2021, 3:33 pm

DrFfybes wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:But I've had my B-class 6 years - so what happens then?


You BUY a car?

How quaint. Don't you realise that all modern cars suffer horrible and massively expensive failures as soon as they fall outside of warranty/lease period? Far better to take the extra depreciation safe in the knowledge that when something does go wrong your monthly payments give you peace of mind?
;)



Well, no I didnt know that. Have cars altered so much in six years since my last purchase? Touch wood, I've had no horrible and massively expensive failures at all - zero incidents in decades of buying cars. Modern cars are exceedingly reliable compared with those of old, so your comment leaves me underwhelmed. Am I just lucky, or are you unlucky?

Since buying my previous car, I've been salting away less than people are paying out for leasing, and thanks to investments, that is enough to buy another one before long, though I'm in no hurry.

Next time I change cars, I shall scout around, including the strange modern idea of leasing - but I don't intend to line someone else's pockets unless it gives me a clear financial advantage.

I've never paid for "things" by finance ever since my first pair of binoculars bought on HP. When I worked out how much that had cost, it put me off for life. After that, I saved up first before buying anything (except my house!).


Arb.

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398954

Postby Howard » March 25th, 2021, 4:12 pm

Like you Arb I don't tend to like the idea of finance. I used to buy new cars for cash. And, with one exception, always got more than 10% off the purchase price.

However, having owned a few Mercs, I did find the (main dealer) servicing costs high. And especially adding in costs of puncture repairs etc. It was particularly irritating on one occasion to get a puncture in a two month old tyre which needed replacement, from memory at nearly £200.

My last Merc was a lovely car and I kept it for seven years. When I did the sums on replacing it I found leasing to be very cost-effective compared with purchasing a brand new car. Like all transactions there are suddenly special offers available so I keep a look out a few months before replacing.

Worth doing the sums if a new car is a possibility?

regards

Howard

PS Totally irrelevant to this thread, but a few years ago I worked out that by not smoking during my adult life and investing the savings, I am over £150,000 better off - and healthier.

I put the savings into my "New Car Fund". I think I've still got enough in the kitty to lease a Ferrari. 8-)

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398984

Postby DrFfybes » March 25th, 2021, 5:56 pm

Arborbridge wrote:
DrFfybes wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:But I've had my B-class 6 years - so what happens then?


You BUY a car?

How quaint. Don't you realise that all modern cars suffer horrible and massively expensive failures as soon as they fall outside of warranty/lease period? Far better to take the extra depreciation safe in the knowledge that when something does go wrong your monthly payments give you peace of mind?
;)



Well, no I didnt know that. Have cars altered so much in six years since my last purchase? Touch wood, I

Arb.


I think you missed the smiley.

Actually cars do seem to have altered scarily in the last 6 years - ones with 3 pedals, proper dials, and easily fiddled with knobs to adjust the heating and radio are remarkably scarce :(

Paul

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#398999

Postby AF62 » March 25th, 2021, 6:47 pm

DrFfybes wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:
DrFfybes wrote:
You BUY a car?

How quaint. Don't you realise that all modern cars suffer horrible and massively expensive failures as soon as they fall outside of warranty/lease period? Far better to take the extra depreciation safe in the knowledge that when something does go wrong your monthly payments give you peace of mind?
;)



Well, no I didnt know that. Have cars altered so much in six years since my last purchase? Touch wood, I

Arb.


I think you missed the smiley.

Actually cars do seem to have altered scarily in the last 6 years - ones with 3 pedals, proper dials, and easily fiddled with knobs to adjust the heating and radio are remarkably scarce :(

Paul


And don't even think about opening the bonnet which just reveals a lot of 'stuff' :? - I am surprised these days that user is still able to open the bonnet and access is not restricted to the maintenance garage at the dealer.

"knobs to adjust the heating" doesn't your car have automatic climate control so you set the temperature once and then never need to touch it again? And this "radio" you mention, does that have something to do with the old fashioned wireless that I have heard about, but which has long been superseded by MP3s on USB, Spotify from Bluetooth, or music from Apple CarPlay ;)

As for 3 pedals - then I take it that a BEV with 'one pedal driving' making the brake pedal redundant as the car goes into regenerative braking when you stop accelerating, would be utterly unacceptable :lol:

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399000

Postby richlist » March 25th, 2021, 6:58 pm

[/quote]

And don't even think about opening the bonnet which just reveals a lot of 'stuff' :? - I am surprised these days that user is still able to open the bonnet and access is not restricted to the maintenance garage at the dealer.
:lol:[/quote]

There are cars exactly like that, I had one, it was called a Porsche Boxster. Mid engine, no access panel.......in fact no access for the owner at all. To access the engine you need to fold down the convertible roof and remove the complete roof cassette.

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399053

Postby Arborbridge » March 25th, 2021, 10:36 pm

AF62 wrote:And don't even think about opening the bonnet which just reveals a lot of 'stuff' :? - I am surprised these days that user is still able to open the bonnet and access is not restricted to the maintenance garage at the dealer.

"knobs to adjust the heating" doesn't your car have automatic climate control so you set the temperature once and then never need to touch it again? And this "radio" you mention, does that have something to do with the old fashioned wireless that I have heard about, but which has long been superseded by MP3s on USB, Spotify from Bluetooth, or music from Apple CarPlay ;)

As for 3 pedals - then I take it that a BEV with 'one pedal driving' making the brake pedal redundant as the car goes into regenerative braking when you stop accelerating, would be utterly unacceptable :lol:


I think you still need to open the bonnet on modern cars to put the fires out.

And as for Spotify MP3 etc - all useless. Radio 4 is usual all I need with the occasional Radio 3. Actually, I do not normally have any music on in the car - it for listening to not wallpaper.

And all this stuff about talking to your satnav to get you home. What's the point of paying for that when I could just select "home" on Rita the Router on my Android phone.

One pedal? I didn't know that - like a bumper car?

Arb.

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399061

Postby 9873210 » March 25th, 2021, 11:01 pm

AF62 wrote:As for 3 pedals - then I take it that a BEV with 'one pedal driving' making the brake pedal redundant as the car goes into regenerative braking when you stop accelerating, would be utterly unacceptable :lol:

One pedal driving is more about drive by wire than BEVs. A BEV can have a separate brake pedal. You can do one pedal driving with an ICE if you have throttle by wire.

With true drive by wire you can also swap the functions of the steering wheel and throttle/brake pedal. Cuts down on unauthorized use.

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Re: UK cuts electric car subsidies.

#399078

Postby AJC5001 » March 26th, 2021, 2:02 am

AF62 wrote:As for 3 pedals - then I take it that a BEV with 'one pedal driving' making the brake pedal redundant as the car goes into regenerative braking when you stop accelerating, would be utterly unacceptable :lol:


Silly question (I hope :) ) - How do you do an emergency stop using regenerative braking?

Adrian


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