Honda Jazz: Manual Gear Box

[bruncher]

I recently bought a three year old low-mileage manual Honda Jazz.
On the first long trip I have been a bit concerned by the vehicle's lack of ability to climb hills. I'm not sure whether it just doesn't have the power to drive up hill, or whether there's a fault, or whether I'm not driving correctly.

So, going 60-65 on a hill (sorry not to be more specific about gradient) the speed gradually drops and the control panel tells me to change down, and this keeps happening til I'm doing 35-40 in 3rd gear (with traffic building up behind me) and the engine is doing 3,000+ RPM. In my previous car 3,000 RPM never happened, but perhaps in a petrol Honda is nothing to worry about?

The gearing is so different to my previous car which needed to be doing above 30 MPH to change up from 3rd to 4th gear. The Honda wants me in 5th gear at 25 MPH and in 6th at 30 MPH - so long as it's driving on a flat road. If there's any upward gradient, however, I'm instructed to change down a lot.

It's hard getting used to the fact that it isn't me driving the car, it's the Honda engine management system.

Any advice appreciated.

[DrFfybes]

First, check nothing is dragging - if you coast up to the lights with the clutch in, does it freewheel OK?

Is this the 1.3 v-tech, which is a non turbo, as 2017 was a bit of a changeover? If you are used to larger engines, or a diesel or a turbo petrol it will feel a bit gutless and revvy. How is it on the motorway

I would ignore the arrows and drive by good old fashioned 'feel'. 6th gear at 30mph sounds a bit optimistic to me, MrsF's BMW will just about do it, but that is a 3.2L The Jazz is a smallish 100Hp petrol engine with similar torque and power characteristics to a 25 year old 1.6L escort, but probably a fair bit heavier. If you can remember cars like that then drive it as such, if it starts to 'bog' down, change down and give it some revs.

You could take it to Honda and get them to plug it in and see if there are any issues, but if it is the 1.3 then it does need to be worked a bit more.

Paul

[bungeejumper]

In my previous car 3,000 RPM never happened, but perhaps in a petrol Honda is nothing to worry about?

So your previous car was a diesel, then? Massively more torque up the hills than a petrol car, even if the horsepower rating was pretty much the same. But I'd doubt that anything's wrong with your Jazz. You just need a bit of time to (re)adjust to the different dynamics of a petrol car.

For the sake of comparison, my old diesel Passat used to pull 70 mph in fifth gear at around 2,200 rpm, with loads of power for long gradients. (And that was with just 105 bhp, which is broadly the same as your petrol Jazz.) Whereas most smallish petrol cars will be revving at 3000 to 3500 at 70, and you'll need to change down earlier on a hill because the torque curve is completely different.

Dr F's advice to ignore the gear-change prompts and drive by good old fashioned feel sounds about right to me. It'll take you a while to get used to the different way that a petrol car needs to be revved. Particularly when pulling away from a standstill - and, most importantly, when you're weighing up something safety-critical like an overtake manoeuvre .

So take it around a few twisty roads until you get the feel of it. Enjoy the car.

BJ

[bruncher]

Thanks DrFfybes and BunjeeJumper, I have been driving diesels for 30 years, and reluctantly giving them up because of the London Emissions charge, so I'll take your advice and try to get to know my engine better.

[9873210]

Does the owners manual have anything to say about this?

The ones I have give the maximum rpms (redline) and the maximum speed in each gear. Redlines for petrol engines are typically way higher than 3000rpm, closer to 6000rpm in the cars I have driven. The change up and down are just suggestions for maximum fuel economy, they can be disregarded if the goal is not maximum fuel economy. Most of the time I would follow them, but sometimes I want to stay in a lower gear for better acceleration.

[staffordian]

I have experience of two petrol engined cars with these gear change prompts. One was a weedy three cylinder 1.2L and the second a reasonably powerful 1.6L and in neither have they actually been much use for day to day driving.

As others have said, their sole purpose is to attempt to maximise economy. The "change up" prompts are at ridiculously low rpm figures, and unless the car has no passengers and is going downhill with a strong tail wind, then it is best to ignore them.

Likewise, the "change down" prompts don't kick in until the engine is already bogging down, which is no use when on any sort of gradient.

At the point in the rev range where most diesels run out of puff, petrol engines are generally just hitting their sweet spot, power-wise, so there is definitely a change in style needed for someone moving from a diesel to a modestly engined petrol model.