Problems with repairing EVs

[scrumpyjack]

Given that ICE vehicles have something like 10 times the number of parts that an EV does, one would think training for EVs would be easier?

[Lootman]

Given that ICE vehicles have something like 10 times the number of parts that an EV does, one would think training for EVs would be easier?

Do they? Obviously the motive power is completely different, and an EV does not need a conventional gearbox. But things like bodywork, interior, brakes, steering and suspension are all similar, no?

The thing that would worry me is all the tech gimmickry that an EV has, which is no doubt fun to have, until it goes wrong. And the fact that an ICE car can often still run with a fault, whilst an EV is more like a light bulb - it either works or it does not. And the cheap local garage cannot fix it so everything needs to go to the very expansive main dealer.

[Tedx]

A very simple EV would probably sell quite well. Say 100 mile range / 70mph top speed. Should be quite straightrward to build and be cheap.

I'd really like a major manufacturer (other than Chevrolet and their Volt) to take on a proper ICE/Electric drivetrain.

Much smaller (cheaper) battery pack and a super economical fossil fuel charging generator to take away all that range anxiety.....

[AF62]

Much smaller (cheaper) battery pack and a super economical fossil fuel charging generator to take away all that range anxiety.....

Multiple manufacturers tried that route and they all failed to take off.

Double the complexity and an increased cost for that occasional use, because those who wanted the range bought an EV with a bigger battery (or an ICE) and those who didn’t were happy with the smaller battery.

[Tedx]

Really? The Volt is the only one I know of. I'm not talking hybrids here I'm talking deisel electric or petrol electric. Like locomotives.

[AF62]

Really? The Volt is the only one I know of. I'm not talking hybrids here I'm talking deisel electric or petrol electric. Like locomotives.

BMW did it with the i3.

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-revie ... st-review/

Vauxhall did it with the Ampera.

https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/feature ... -live-one/

[Urbandreamer]

Really? The Volt is the only one I know of. I'm not talking hybrids here I'm talking deisel electric or petrol electric. Like locomotives.

Just a quick correction on language.

What you are talking about is known as a series hybrid, though you may know it as a range extender. Ie the energy storage for motion is petrol/diesel, which is converted to electricity, which is then used for motion.

The word hybrid is not limited to parallel hybrids, where both the IC engine and battery operate side by side in providing torque.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_ve ... ies_hybrid

As said, it's been done many times. However, it's seldom been popular.

[Tedx]

Really? The Volt is the only one I know of. I'm not talking hybrids here I'm talking deisel electric or petrol electric. Like locomotives.

As said, it's been done many times. However, it's seldom been popular.

Remarkable really since the Beemer seems to get a glowing review along with some really decent fuel economy figures.

[88V8]

It ain't hard to end up spending 15 grand per mechanic for all this. There are very, very few garages out there with that kind of funding available.

How much have you (or they) spent training and equipping your ICE mechanics? It's in the same ball park. New entrants need to train one way or the other and shortages for specialized skills will affect their choices.

Garages already have the knowledge for ICEs, and the equipment. No external training needed.

And it's not just the mechanics that need training, it's the supervisors, otherwise one would have the invidious position where the mechanics supposedly know how to do things but the managers don't. Our local garage has that situation, the owner - 40 years in the trade and still very hands-on, his partner, two mechanics. It's a two-ramp garage, doesn't have the spare funds for EV training and equipment.
The extra twist with EVs is that the high voltages - 300/800V - can kill you, hence all the safety stuff. They're not nice and simple, like the milk floats of old.

V8

[Urbandreamer]

Remarkable really since the Beemer seems to get a glowing review along with some really decent fuel economy figures.

The issue is that you sacrifice potential performance.

If the electric motor is, shall we say 100bhp and the IC 50, then in theory you could have a 150bhp parallel hybrid instead.
Economy however, serial/range extender may be the way to go. The drive train is simpler, meaning less weight and expense.

The extra twist with EVs is that the high voltages - 300/800V - can kill you, hence all the safety stuff. They're not nice and simple, like the milk floats of old.

Actually, it's not the lethal voltages that make them more complicated. In fact, you can't get simpler than a bag of gunpowder or a stick of dynamite. Working with those voltages is easy (I've done it regularly, though not on EV's*), possibly too easy. The issue is that you need to constantly watch yourself and ensure that you don't make simple mistakes. Thankfully, correct tools are now common and cheap.

*The drives we use at work have a nominal 600V DC bus.

[AF62]

It ain't hard to end up spending 15 grand per mechanic for all this. There are very, very few garages out there with that kind of funding available.

As BEVs become more numerous then unless those independent garages find that money then they are going to be chasing fewer and fewer ICE cars to service and repair.

Sure it isn't going to happen tomorrow, and it isn't going to happen next week, but it is coming - just ask those who maintained horses and carts.

And as for the cost of training - well that doesn't seem to impact the cost of servicing, as that is far cheaper on the BEV I own than the ICE car I currently own or any of the others I have owned in the past.

[Urbandreamer]

It ain't hard to end up spending 15 grand per mechanic for all this. There are very, very few garages out there with that kind of funding available.

As BEVs become more numerous then unless those independent garages find that money then they are going to be chasing fewer and fewer ICE cars to service and repair.

Next time you take your own car in for an MOT or service, ask how many EV's they deal with.

I did, and the reply was "one or two". So not huge numbers, but not non-existent.

BTW, I use an independent garage because I feel that I can trust them more than the main dealer. Not sure if my opinion of the main dealers is warranted, though.

PS, they all also send business to specialists. I had an exhaust problem and was sent to the same specialist by two independents. The first claimed the part was unavailable, while the second made it clear that the issue was seized studs on the cat. The specialist could either fabricate a part or replace the studs without replacing the cat. The bill was surprisingly cheap as they could use off the shelf parts and the fabricator told me that they even got business from main dealers.

[quelquod]

BTW, I use an independent garage because I feel that I can trust them more than the main dealer. Not sure if my opinion of the main dealers is warranted, though.

Agreed! Speaking as a BMW owner I never use a main £tealer out of warranty. My experience is that they tend to just throw replacement parts at a problem until it goes away, just following the fault code trail without thinking things through. That’s before you consider the overheads on the shiny premises of course. Far better with a trustworthy local independent

[AF62]

As BEVs become more numerous then unless those independent garages find that money then they are going to be chasing fewer and fewer ICE cars to service and repair.

Next time you take your own car in for an MOT or service, ask how many EV's they deal with.

I did, and the reply was "one or two". So not huge numbers, but not non-existent.

That question though is likely a self-fulfilling prophecy. The local independent service garage I use doesn’t deal with EVs other than for MOTs, so the answer will be a low number.

However the main dealer I use for the BEV sees lots of them for servicing because they sell them and the prices they charge for a service are less expensive than independents.

When will independents notice? Well in 7 years time the intention is that no new ICE are to be sold in the UK and from that point the demand to service ICE will shrink as there will be fewer in the road.

Sure there will be demand after that point from those keeping expensive ICE cars on the road, but the mass market demand will evaporate over the following decade.

[9873210]

Really? The Volt is the only one I know of. I'm not talking hybrids here I'm talking deisel electric or petrol electric. Like locomotives.

BMW did it with the i3.

https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-revie ... st-review/

Vauxhall did it with the Ampera.

https://www.greencarguide.co.uk/feature ... -live-one/

There is also the Prius prime. The pure electric range is a bit limited, but adequate for many commutes. 2023 version gets ~35 miles all electric and has all electric motorway performance. It's clear that this exists mostly to capture tax credits and get brownie points from regulators. If there were some hidden demand for this capability Toyota would sell more of them, and put some effort into further range enhancements.