Electric cars - BBC

[Tedx]

It already is. It's a few years ago now, more than three I think. Interactive Investor told me I had to register a mobile phone number with them. I told them I didn't have a mobile phone. The reply was that II would have to refuse access to my account until I got one. Just a small example and not even recent.

It doesn't always work even if you do have a mobile. A couple of years ago, while on holiday, I got an urgent surgical appointment from my local hospital that was texted to my mobile. The fact that we didn't have any reception around those parts didn't seem to have figured as a possibility with the NHS. I missed the appointment and got a proper telling-off.

But then, touchscreens and I are not really made for each other at the best of times. I have a condition known as zombie fingers - very dry or calloused fingertips that won't work a phone unless I lick them first. (Guitarists often get them, and carpenters apparently.) You'll see me out and about, desperately trying to swipe an incoming phone call, and quite often failing. Mobile parking apps are a perpetual nightmare because the price of failure is so high. (You get fined.)

Imagine, therefore, my chances of being able to communicate effectively with a touchscreen in my car? I can just about persuade the sound system in my car to obey me at the third or fourth desperate stab, perhaps by licking my fingers, but that's not exactly something I'd want to be doing at 60 mph. (Not least because it would scare everybody witless.) Nor would I feel very confident about driving any car where using the touchscreen was a non-negotiable part of using the controls.

So that's me marginalised, then? Ho hum, I suppose I'll have to get used to it?

BJ

Answer incoming calls with voice commands?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SAM0jBCkYFk

I ofter use speech to text on WhatsApp too, if that helps.

[Lootman]

I get the impression, from this thread, that some folkes like EVs and some loath them. We have a BEV and an ICE, both have their good points and bad.....but they just work, within their operating parameters.

The debate so far on this thread has been a mirror image of Brexit discussions on TLF. Given the chance remain or leave could work, just like BEV or ICE vehicles can work.

Flokes here just take an opinion and adhere to it come hell or high water. It's just great to take an unbiased view and look at the dogmatic, rigid and unwavering arguments on these threads. Human nature I suppose.

Agree up to a point. But there is one big difference. The pro-ICEV lobby are not trying to deny the pro-BEV lobby their choice of vehicle. The reverse is not true; the pro-BEV lobby do want to see an end to ICEVs, and dismiss those affected by that as luddites, dinosaurs and tech-illiterate climate-destroying right-wingers.

[bungeejumper]

Folkes here just take an opinion and adhere to it come hell or high water. It's just great to take an unbiased view and look at the dogmatic, rigid and unwavering arguments on these threads. Human nature I suppose.

EVs will eventually work for most people, but not at all for a sizeable rural minority if they can't get access to the same facilities that townies tend to take for granted. Nor is there any likelihood that commercial concerns will ever find it worthwhile to extend those facilities to the final 25% - probably at a higher per capita cost than tightly-packed urban communities.

Unless, that is, the government steps in and declares that some level of universal access must be provided, or else........

Another reason, if anyone ever doubted it, that leaving infrastructural planning to the untrammelled free market is a lunatic idea. We've seen it with the trains, and we've seen it with the buses. No wonder the continentals laugh at us.

BJ

[XFool]

The pro-ICEV lobby are not trying to deny the pro-BEV lobby their choice of vehicle. The reverse is not true; the pro-BEV lobby do want to see an end to ICEVs, and dismiss those affected by that as luddites, dinosaurs and tech-illiterate climate-destroying right-wingers.

Seems fair...

[Howard]

Which BEVs insist you use a smartphone to work them?

I've driven six BEVs, a Tesla, Nissan, two different BMWs, Fiat and KIA. None of them needed a smartphone to drive them. Even the Tesla comes with two key cards and assumes as a default that you won't use a phone. See link below.

The Tesla does require one to use its large touchscreen to adjust everything (yes a major disadvantage as one has to take one's eyes off the road).

Our KIA BEV allows every adjustment to be done by a physical switch or knob. The only exception is some of the satnav controls are best done by the touchscreen but this can be done safely before starting the journey. Or if one is brave one can use voice control which does work quite well.

Why all the worry about smartphones?

My premium ICE car which is a few years old has lots of Smartphone functionality. One can set all sorts of things from the comfort of one's sitting room. I haven't got round to trying any of these features yet.

However, prompted by a car nerd whilst driving, I did try the voice control for something unusual, speaking to the car and asking it to increase the heating temperature. A snooty German voice told me to turn the heater control which I could find just below the touchscreen on the left!

regards

Howard

https://www.quora.com/Can-you-operate-a ... t%20is.,(s)%20and%20everything%20else.

[scotview]

My premium ICE car which is a few years old has lots of Smartphone functionality.

Aye Howard, my wife drives her ID3 and doesn't have the VW app. on her phone.

She would like the pre heat function on her phone in winter ......but she can't be bothered to set it up.

Funny old world.

[Lootman]

Folkes here just take an opinion and adhere to it come hell or high water. It's just great to take an unbiased view and look at the dogmatic, rigid and unwavering arguments on these threads. Human nature I suppose.

EVs will eventually work for most people, but not at all for a sizeable rural minority if they can't get access to the same facilities that townies tend to take for granted. Nor is there any likelihood that commercial concerns will ever find it worthwhile to extend those facilities to the final 25% - probably at a higher per capita cost than tightly-packed urban communities.

Unless, that is, the government steps in and declares that some level of universal access must be provided, or else........

The UK government decided that it wanted to be seen as doing something about global warming. But rather than spend actual money they just announced a ban on new ICEVs, because that is cheap and quick to do,

The expensive and difficult stuff, like building out charging infrastructure, they did not want to do. Why do something hard and costly when instead you can just make a petty and punitive gesture?

Scrappage payouts for old ICEVs? Don't hold your breath on that either.

[Urbandreamer]

The expensive and difficult stuff, like building out charging infrastructure, they did not want to do. Why do something hard and costly when instead you can just make a petty and punitive gesture?

Scrappage payouts for old ICEVs? Don't hold your breath on that either.

Err, ok I said I wouldn't bite.

However there is a well known company who is investing in electricity generation and EV chargers. Indeed I hold shares in them. I wonder if you can guess their name.

No not HIM.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgnClrx8N2k
It's Shell.
https://www.shell.co.uk/motorist/ev-charging.html

I confess that I have had to buy back my shares, having previously sold them thinking that they were not doing enough of the sort of things that they should do to survive.

[scotview]

The UK government decided that it wanted to be seen as doing something about global warming.

It's removal of choice for the public, by statute.

What I find really difficult to take in is how acquiescent, apathetic even, the UK populace are. We really do get what we deserve.

[mc2fool]

The real theme here is that governments, businesses and other entities make self-serving decisions that are based on false assumptions like that everyone has a smart phone, that everyone is online all the time, that everyone can get a signal 24/7, that everyone wants to do everything for themselves, that everyone is infatuated and competent with tech, and so on.

No, they know that not everyone has a smart phone, is online all the time, etc, but the businesses at least may make the business decision to just not bother with those "exceptions".

With government services there is valid reason to insist they don't do that, as governments are supposed to serve all citizens, but with businesses there is (in most cases) no duty of universality.

[Urbandreamer]

The UK government decided that it wanted to be seen as doing something about global warming.

It's removal of choice for the public, by statute.

What I find really difficult to take in is how acquiescent, apathetic even, the UK populace are. We really do get what we deserve.

While I entirely agree with your view, I don't agree with the premise of the ICE community on this thread.

Anyone know of the London to Brighton thing? You CAN drive old cars. It's only new cars that are targeted. If people want to continue driving a Jowett or a Rochdale Olympic, they can. Likewise a Moggie or Escort.

As said, new cars, .....er are new.
The electric "thing" does have certain performance advantages, unrelated to keyless locks, satnav, or all the other complaints that could be leveled at other ICE cars.

[doolally]

The UK government decided that it wanted to be seen as doing something about global warming.

It's removal of choice for the public, by statute.

What I find really difficult to take in is how acquiescent, apathetic even, the UK populace are. We really do get what we deserve.

I don't think that the UK public (or any other nation for that matter) as individuals would do what needs to be done to solve the global warming issue. They would say, and believe, that "something must be done" but that's as far as they would go.

The only way to fix global warming is by government taking the tough decisions, which means removal of choice for the public. And the public will then vote out the government of the day for taking those decisions.

I really believe that global warming will cause major issues, but we won't do, or allow our government to do, anything about it, despite "supporting" the general principle. It's tomorrow's problem, but we don't want it to affect our today.
doolally

[airbus330]

One feature of the Tiger Moth was, given enough height, if you took your hands and feet off the controls, it would sort itself out and get you out of trouble, usually a spin. That is far from a case with the modern fly by wire aircraft.

Is it? I readily confess I have exactly zero knowledge in this area, but I would have thought a fly-by-wire aircraft ought to be able to automatically get itself out of such a situation (if the aircraft flight dynamics allow it). Or avoid getting into it in the first place.

AFAIK the computing power required to operate a self driving car is several times that required to operate a modern airliner automatically. It has to be said, at the current level of development on passenger carrying aircraft the autopilot is a tool to relieve the workload on the pilots to allow them to effectively monitor the progress of the flight and intervene where required. It is not autonomous. The eventual premis of self driving cars is for no human intervention at all. That requires decision making skills that are not currently available to cars or aircraft, but I'm sure are not far below the horizon.

As far as spinning is concerned, in theory any aircraft can be spun, some are more reluctant than others and will recover from a spin once the aggravating control inputs are removed. The pilot will still need to recover from the resulting dive. AFA modern FBW airliners are concerned, they are heavily protected from departing from their safe flight envelope by multiple flight control computers which will intervene to prevent a pilot input which will take the aircraft outside this envelope. Almost all commercial flight training concentrates on teaching pilots to avoid stalling the aircraft which is the precursor to entering a spin.And, of course how to recover from a stall if inadvertently entered. So both the flight control computers and pilots are actively avoiding the starting point of the spin. But since, in theory all aircraft can be spun, what happens if it does spin. The answer is a bit hazy as modern certification of aircraft does not include test pilots spinning the new shiny toy, mainly because it is likely that it will overstress the airframe and lead to things breaking in a dramatic manner. That said, a couple of jet airliners have been spun that I have read of, one a B727 recovered after losing lots of moving parts off the front and rear of the wings, the other is at the bottom of the sea. A third was an A300 that crashed shortly after takeoff at JFK and lost its tail fin, but this didn't enter a fully developed spin.
From personal experience, we once had a go in the full motion simulator of an Airbus by deliberately turning off a variety of computers, then aggressively stalling and yawing the aircraft, it did reluctantly spin and recovered using the standard technique. You can't really draw much from this as the computers that control the sim don't have realistic data to create it, so it could be completely erroneous as no-one has ever done it for real. Sorry about the thread drift, but someone asked. Also, I'm a bit out of date, so some of what i have said may have been superseded.

[redsturgeon]

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[CliffEdge]

But when would this "outlawing" take place?

Maybe sooner than we think.

I see politicians doubling down on net zero, especially with the press freaking out on the current "apocalyptic" heat waves.

Car manufacturers are now making massive capital investments into BEV production (some maybe too late).

China is about to flood the UK car market with cheap, acceptable quality BEVs. It is an imminent tsunami that may trigger trade wars.

Oilcos won't support the UK's HC fuel supply and distribution industry if the future look grim for their profits.

Logic, transparency and science doesn't figure into today's (UK) political classes, they don't care about the populace (yet).

The quality of life of the masses was hard fought. The battles were won but the war wasn't.
Complacency among the masses allowed the Swine to achieve brexit , the emasculation of the NHS, and many other evils. Evils against capitalism even, believe it or not, though when you think about it, it makes sense for the Swine: "Trade" has always been a problem for them. Boris said "F* business" allegedly, Gabby mouth that one. Had to go.
I'm afraid the only legitimate government will now come from Labour. Many on here, including myself, will now pay for the actions of the Swine but if we can stop them from continuing with their wickedness it will be worth it. But it will be a workers' revolt of the most primitive type. Necessary though, probably.

[88V8]

....it will be a workers' revolt of the most primitive type. Necessary though, probably.

Given that 'the workers' with no home charging are likely to be on the losing end of EVs, I guess that is quite possible.

V8

[Itsallaguess]

‎
A salutary tale from a real-life experience of renting an electric car for a European holiday -

‘I spent my entire Italian holiday madly searching for EV charging points’ -

That [side] trip ate up 235 km of my range. It involved diversions, including down a footpath. All right, the footpath, although I wasn’t dumb enough to get two punctures. On my return at dusk, I was anxious enough about my range to scout the charging station in the village, but couldn’t pinpoint it in the dark. In the light of day, this turned out to be because the car park in which it would be situated hadn’t yet been built.

My car then announced that the other local station, a Tesla Supercharger, was unsuitable for my car, knocking out another 40 per cent of all Italian EV stations. Back at the villa, my idea of a running joke had become 12 people on their phones, all shouting out EV locations and advice, right down to 11-year-olds. I decided it was time the domestic charger came out, but I couldn’t find it in the car. Because it wasn’t in the car...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/how-hiring-an-ev-in-tuscany-ruined-holiday/


As it turned out, the charger was in the car, but the dolt hadn't covered that side of things when he'd initially picked the car up, but the broader story is a reminder of the current harsh realities regarding being sold on a public charging infrastructure that often doesn't deliver to requirements...

In addition to the above, one interesting and important snippet from the reader-comments section under the story was something I'd perhaps not considered -

All the UK holiday let's I've recently stayed in state in their T&C's - strictly no EV charging.

Which makes complete sense from the financial point of view of a holiday-home owner, but I expect might come as a surprise to an EV owner who might think they can always charge overnight when they're on holiday, and which of course then puts additional pressure on an already squeezed public charging-point infrastructure when they find that they're not actually allowed to...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[quelquod]

As far as spinning is concerned, in theory any aircraft can be spun, some are more reluctant than others and will recover from a spin once the aggravating control inputs are removed.

I'm not so sure - when I was doing aerobatic training at my gliding club neither I nor the instructor could enter a spin in the trainer (I'm a bit of a fat b*****d) - just dropped into a spiral dive every time. I guess you mean depending on the CG? One of the single seaters had a warning in the flight manual not to spin it (though I believe you were allowed to recover if you did it accidentally ) - maybe worried some of the flying members might detach?

OTT sorry!

[jfgw]

‎
A salutary tale from a real-life experience of renting an electric car for a European holiday -

‘I spent my entire Italian holiday madly searching for EV charging points’ -...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/features/how-hiring-an-ev-in-tuscany-ruined-holiday/

Itsallaguess

You could tow or carry (local laws permitting) a petrol or diesel generator


Julian F. G. W.

[tjh290633]

As far as spinning is concerned, in theory any aircraft can be spun, some are more reluctant than others and will recover from a spin once the aggravating control inputs are removed.

I'm not so sure - when I was doing aerobatic training at my gliding club neither I nor the instructor could enter a spin in the trainer (I'm a bit of a fat b*****d) - just dropped into a spiral dive every time. I guess you mean depending on the CG? One of the single seaters had a warning in the flight manual not to spin it (though I believe you were allowed to recover if you did it accidentally ) - maybe worried some of the flying members might detach?

OTT sorry!

That implies that you could not get the glider to stall. Hence the spiral dive. A Tiger Moth, for example, will recover from a spin if you let go of the controls. On the other hand, a Chipmunk if kept in a spin for more than two revolutions is likely to go into a flat spin, from which recovery is difficult if not impossible. I must see what the Pilot's Notes say, as it is 71 years since I last read them.

My recollection is that you apply full opposite rudder, stick fully forward and apply full power to recover, but I could be wrong. I have recovered from a spin in a Meteor, which I think involved full opposite rudder and stick forward, but one engine was on full power as I recall. Whatever I did, I reckon that the bottom of the dive was about 300 feet above ground and I got us back to 25,000 feet where we sorted out the instructor's feet. The idiot had put a foot behind the rudder bar. Demonstrating the effect of losing an engine below safety speed.

TJH