Entering a roundabout

[MrFoolish]

Scenario:

- You are driving a car and approaching a roundabout in the left hand lane.

- There is a large van moving parallel to you in the right hand lane. It is inching forward and blocking your view of the roundabout to the right.

- The van then decisively enters the roundabout.

Should you assume the van driver saw the roundabout to be clear, and thus you also enter the roundabout?

[Lootman]

I would. The point is not so much that the roundabout is clear but rather that if it is not clear then that third vehicle will hit the van and not you. The van is effectively shielding you.

The same situation can happen when crossing a junction.

[MrFoolish]

I would. The point is not so much that the roundabout is clear but rather that if it is not clear then that third vehicle will hit the van and not you. The van is effectively shielding you.

The same situation can happen when crossing a junction.

My concern would be the third vehicle could push the van sideways into me.

I remember many years ago, when learning to drive, my instructor told me off for allowing another vehicle to "shield" me. Though I wasn't sure what happened at the time.

There's so many high sided vehicles on the road now that I regularly face this situation and I'm rather unsure on the best approach.

[bungeejumper]

Only if I'm feeling lucky.

What if the van driver's a bat-brained lunatic who's cutting across the path of somebody who's already on the roundabout? And if that somebody has calculated that, if they swing out to the left a bit, they can just manage to miss the tail of the van without having to slow down? And if they then discover that you're impeding their progress too?

There's a roundabout near here where the local Corsa drivers play their own version of chicken by refusing to slow down under any circumstances. Instead, they'll swerve and maybe accelerate as well. Unfortunately they also have the right of way. (Well, most of it.)

[88V8]

Scenario:....
Should you assume the van driver saw the roundabout to be clear, and thus you also enter the roundabout?

Depends on the roundabout.
How many lanes.
If I need to be in the 'inside' lane to turn right, perhaps not.
But if I'm going left, definitely.

Also depends which car. Some of my cars are nippier than others, therefore better able to get out of the way.

V8

[MrFoolish]

Scenario:....
Should you assume the van driver saw the roundabout to be clear, and thus you also enter the roundabout?

Depends on the roundabout.
How many lanes.
If I need to be in the 'inside' lane to turn right, perhaps not.
But if I'm going left, definitely.

The last time I encountered this situation:

- the roundabout had 2 entry and exit lanes
- I was going straight on (and there was no left exit)
- The van was probably turning right
- The dangerous potential third car would also be turning right

BTW, why would you ever turn right from the inside lane?

[Gerry557]

Depends on the roundabout.
How many lanes.
If I need to be in the 'inside' lane to turn right, perhaps not.
But if I'm going left, definitely.

The last time I encountered this situation:

- the roundabout had 2 entry and exit lanes
- I was going straight on (and there was no left exit)
- The van was probably turning right
- The dangerous potential third car would also be turning right

BTW, why would you ever turn right from the inside lane?

There are many roundabouts where both lanes are used to turn right or left for that matter. Most have arrows indicating as such.

[BigB]

Scenario:

- You are driving a car and approaching a roundabout in the left hand lane.

- There is a large van moving parallel to you in the right hand lane. It is inching forward and blocking your view of the roundabout to the right.

- The van then decisively enters the roundabout.

Should you assume the van driver saw the roundabout to be clear, and thus you also enter the roundabout?

I use the van as a shield occasionally, if I have already had a view to the right as I approach the roundabout and have approximated there should be a gap. Some van trust, some me trust.

If I approach and have had no prior view of the roundabout because the van was keeping speed with me, I wait. No 100% blind faith in other road user.

[88V8]

Depends on the roundabout.
If I need to be in the 'inside' lane to turn right, perhaps not.

BTW, why would you ever turn right from the inside lane?

Depends how one defines 'inside'. For me, the inside lane on a roundabout is the one nearest the centre.

V8

[XFool]

Scenario:

- You are driving a car and approaching a roundabout in the left hand lane.

- There is a large van moving parallel to you in the right hand lane. It is inching forward and blocking your view of the roundabout to the right.

- The van then decisively enters the roundabout.

Should you assume the van driver saw the roundabout to be clear, and thus you also enter the roundabout?

Surely the strict answer is, when driving, you should never "assume" anything. In practice?

[XFool]

The last time I encountered this situation:

- the roundabout had 2 entry and exit lanes
- I was going straight on (and there was no left exit)
- The van was probably turning right
- The dangerous potential third car would also be turning right

BTW, why would you ever turn right from the inside lane?

There are many roundabouts where both lanes are used to turn right or left for that matter. Most have arrows indicating as such.

This is starting to bring back memories of an old, event-filled and very long thread on the now defunct TomTom forum...

[88V8]

There are many roundabouts where both lanes are used to turn right or left for that matter. Most have arrows indicating as such.

This is starting to bring back memories of an old, event-filled and very long thread on the now defunct TomTom forum...

I recall perhaps 12 years ago, going straight ahead on a roundabout, for some reason I was in the 'inside' lane, ie the right hand lane, and to my left a car entered with me and decided he was going to turn right, without signalling.
We had a light coming together.

Some people seem to imagine that signals are optional on roundabouts, one of my pet peeves. In this case one of those people was me, as I was going straight on.

In the end we decided that with no significant damage to either party, we would not exchange details.

Who was at fault....

V8

[XFool]

I recall perhaps 12 years ago, going straight ahead on a roundabout, for some reason I was in the 'inside' lane, ie the right hand lane, and to my left a car entered with me and decided he was going to turn right, without signalling.
We had a light coming together.

Some people seem to imagine that signals are optional on roundabouts, one of my pet peeves. In this case one of those people was me, as I was going straight on.

In the end we decided that with no significant damage to either party, we would not exchange details.

Who was at fault....

Possibly both?

You should have been signalling 'Left' from the first exit before your own exit - i.e. going "straight on" at the roundabout.

He should have been in the outside (right!) lane and signalling 'Right' on entry to the roundabout, as he was going right at the roundabout.

[terminal7]

Given the increase in the number of emboldened (others may wish to apply alternative adjectives) cyclists, I would also check my passenger wing mirror to ensure that velcro man wasn't charging up the inside with no intention of stopping.

T7

[bungeejumper]

Given the increase in the number of emboldened (others may wish to apply alternative adjectives) cyclists, I would also check my passenger wing mirror to ensure that velcro man wasn't charging up the inside with no intention of stopping.

I think we might be talking the same language here - up to a point.

The hardcore racing club cyclists who use our local lanes do seem to have an impressive confidence in their survival chances, as they take blind corners four abreast, or veer out towards me into the centre of a 12 foot road, while mouthing off at me for not giving them five feet of room which doesn't and can't exist.

But velcro man? Lycra man, shurely? If I ever come across velcro man riding against the oncoming flow through the traffic calming section, and swearing at me all the while, I'll tell him to zip it.

BJ

[9873210]

Surely the strict answer is, when driving, you should never "assume" anything. In practice?

You have to assume somethings. If you don't you will fail a test. For example single carriageways can't work unless you assume oncoming drivers are not suicidal maniacs.

[bungeejumper]

You have to assume somethings. If you don't you will fail a test. For example single carriageways can't work unless you assume oncoming drivers are not suicidal maniacs.

I don't know if you've ever ridden a motorbike, but the whole art of staying alive is to assume that every car driver is a suicidal (or murderous) maniac. Probably one in a hundred shouldn't be allowed out on his own.

As a car driver, I only narrowly missed a full head-on collision with a little old lady who veered her car right over onto my side of the road. To avoid a squirrel. Sheesh.

BJ

[Gerry557]

Given the increase in the number of emboldened (others may wish to apply alternative adjectives) cyclists, I would also check my passenger wing mirror to ensure that velcro man wasn't charging up the inside with no intention of stopping.

T7

Didn't you do this anyway before they were emboldened.

[Lootman]

As a car driver, I only narrowly missed a full head-on collision with a little old lady who veered her car right over onto my side of the road. To avoid a squirrel. Sheesh.

Someone I know swerved to avoid a dog and drove into a stone wall. She was fine, as was the dog. But the wall was damaged and, when the police arrived, they arrested her and she spent the night in jail until her dad got her out the next day. She was fined and got a ban. This was in Somerset. No alcohol involved.

So when an animal gets in your path just run over it if you cannot stop in time.

[csearle]

Germans (generally I love them dearly* so this is honestly not a remark against them) have IMO only a fleeting understanding of what those of us in the UK call a roundabout. They call it a Kreisverkehr, which could be falsely interpreted as circular sex, but it should not be assumed that because they have a word for it that they know much about the thing at all. They only have five of them in the whole of the German federal republic** so don't assume they approach them with relish (as most of us do I suspect).

If a German approaches a UK roundabout on a dual carriageway in the left hand lane with the hope of taking the third exit er/sie will probably not bother getting into the right-hand lane but will stick stoically to the safe leftmost one. Er/Sie will probably indicate left because they are entering a one-way street, albeit a short circular one, where you are only allowed to turn left. They will innocently keep left whilst turning right, i.e. cut across anyone next to them (in lane 2) going straight on.

Be aware fellow Fools. These people mean no harm. They are just untrained in our ways.

Chris
* Especially the way they discuss everything endlessly before deciding whether to act.
** Exaggerated for comic effect,