The Lemon Fool

9873210 wrote:
Also I didn't say there are no metrics by which a BEV is better, Just there aren't many by which a BEV dominates an ICE the way any car dominates any horse in so many ways.

Well, maybe there is one.

It seems to me that mainstream BEV's are safer than mainstream ICE's in relation to safety in overtaking, particularly of long vehicles. Whereby the instant and sustained acceleration makes overtaking safer and gives the driver a great deal of confidence. Even for a driver like me! Remember Reginald Molehusband (google it) that's me, that is.

9873210 wrote:BEV are not doing anything ICE are not doing, except not spewing CO2, which is not a direct benefit to the driver.

That's a big "except". I see great benefits to our towns and villages by having BEVs rather than ICEs, and changes do not only have to be of benefit - to the driver, in this case - to be worthwhile or promoted. Some changes are agreed on as being desirable at a community level and then adopted as normal except by a few who dislike change. Examples could include the ban on smoking, wearing seatbelts, speed limits, abolition of hanging, not sending children up chimneys.

Anyhow, I am no longer sure what you are actually trying to say! Are you in favour of adopting EVs or resentful, for some reason? Or, perhaps, lukewarm like many people.

Arb.

9873210 wrote:I'm not cherry picking metrics, but I am ignoring contrived metrics. Also I didn't say there are no metrics by which a BEV is better, Just there aren't many by which a BEV dominates an ICE the way any car dominates any horse in so many ways. Even there a horse can swim better than most cars, but that's not enough to matter for most users.

What's all this about horses? Again, what are you trying to say, exactly? Are you saying you are against the adoption of BEVs because they do not - in your view - represent a big enough step change over an ICE compared with a horse to an ICE?

Are you anti BEV, or just sceptical? I'm confused.

Arb.

9873210 wrote:When ICE cars were well beyond the reach of the mass of people, horses were even further beyond the reach of the mass of the people. Cars, bicycles and train tickets did not replace horses for the masses. They replaced Shanks's pony.

Well, I dunno (scratches head, chews on a straw), around these rural parts there were a darn sight more horses than cars until well into the 1920s. Of course, there were free recharging facilities in just about every field, and the pollution from the horses' exhaust pipes wasn't really an issue. Whereas the rutted roads certainly were. You could drive twenty miles on one of they major highways, but still not manage to get home because your axle had broken in the last half mile.

No electricity either until 1957, I believe. But our neighbour had a motorbike and sidecar, which allowed him to exploit a commercial opportunity. He would collect the batteries that they all relied on to make their wireless sets work, and get them recharged in the nearest town. Fastest boy in the village, he was.

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:Well, I dunno (scratches head, chews on a straw), around these rural parts there were a darn sight more horses than cars until well into the 1920s. Of course, there were free recharging facilities in just about every field, and the pollution from the horses' exhaust pipes wasn't really an issue. Whereas the rutted roads certainly were. You could drive twenty miles on one of they major highways, but still not manage to get home because your axle had broken in the last half mile.

I heard a piece years ago about the problem of horse manure in cities being a big problem. Obvious out in the rural parts not so much of an issue but I guess the particulates from petrol isnt as bad where there is less dense population. A random google reaffirms my memory
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/H ... f%20manure.

The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894
By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were drowning in horse manure. The London Times predicted in 1894 that in 50 years time, every street in London would be buried under nine feet of manure.

I remember talking to my Da about this. He could tell if someone was ill as there was a car in the street and only the doctor had a car, the traders had horse cart/dray, brewers, coal man, rubbish collection, builder, thatcher etc and the populace went everywhere by bike.

kempiejon wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:Well, I dunno (scratches head, chews on a straw), around these rural parts there were a darn sight more horses than cars until well into the 1920s. Of course, there were free recharging facilities in just about every field, and the pollution from the horses' exhaust pipes wasn't really an issue. Whereas the rutted roads certainly were. You could drive twenty miles on one of they major highways, but still not manage to get home because your axle had broken in the last half mile.

I heard a piece years ago about the problem of horse manure in cities being a big problem. Obvious out in the rural parts not so much of an issue but I guess the particulates from petrol isnt as bad where there is less dense population. A random google reaffirms my memory
https://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/H ... f%20manure.

The Great Horse Manure Crisis of 1894
By the late 1800s, large cities all around the world were drowning in horse manure. The London Times predicted in 1894 that in 50 years time, every street in London would be buried under nine feet of manure.

I remember talking to my Da about this. He could tell if someone was ill as there was a car in the street and only the doctor had a car, the traders had horse cart/dray, brewers, coal man, rubbish collection, builder, thatcher etc and the populace went everywhere by bike.

Not that this has anything to do with used EV prices, but when I was growing up in the 1940s there were lots of working horses on the streets. I used to get the job of collecting the droppings for my father’s garden, especially at this time of year.

Dod