The Lemon Fool

This autumn we'll likely be needing to buy a motor for a newly qualified Moorfield Jr. 18 yrs old. Manual licence, probably manual drive. Will be using it regularly for work ~25 mile round trip daily.

I'm minded to look at (notional) insurance costs first and work backwards from there, rather than finding the car first. And a bangernomics approach - high mileage, not too precious about bodywork gettting dinged, from a car supermarket provided MOT history looks sound, probably an older car. Wouldn't rule out a van of some sort (Moorfield Jr quite likes the idea of that).

So, any tips from anyone who has done recently? Thank you.

Agree about the banger approach in case of scrapes, but not too old - make sure it's got plenty of airbags. Nothing too fast obviously, but also not something that's so underpowered it can't pull out of junctions quickly enough. And not too small - first cars are often small but I preferred a bit more space for crumple zones for my kids. Think safety first, not cost.

Are you in a ULAZ type zone or is diesel still an option? I'd prefer a high mileage diesel over a high mileage petrol.

Just for a laugh I tried Copilot as I wait for a takeaway delivery. Beat the battered Land Rover I had. Not my spelling!

When it comes to choosing a used car for a new driver, several factors come into play: affordability, ease of driving, and safety. Here are some excellent options to consider:

Volkswagen up!: The Volkswagen up! is a great choice for new drivers. Its compact size makes it easy to maneuver, especially in city traffic. The 1.0-liter engine provides adequate power, and running costs are affordable. Plus, it sits in very low insurance groups1.

Ford Fiesta: Although production has ceased, the Ford Fiesta remains a popular choice among first-time drivers. Look for used models with an extensive service history. The Fiesta offers a good balance of comfort, handling, and fuel efficiency

Dacia Sandero: The Dacia Sandero is known for its no-frills approach. It’s budget-friendly, spacious, and straightforward to drive. Opt for a well-maintained used Sandero for a reliable experience

Skoda Fabia: The Skoda Fabia combines practicality with affordability. It’s a solid choice for new drivers, offering good fuel economy and low insurance costs1.

Hyundai i10: The Hyundai i10 is a compact city car that’s easy to park and maneuver. Look for used models with a decent service history. It’s efficient and reliable for everyday driving

Crazbe7

Honda Jazz

I agree with the i10 recommendation if you can find one at a price you like.

Toyota Ago or Suzuki Alto would be the other choices i would recommend. I ended up buying a 10 year old Alto, 30k miles for my son to learn in and drive following his test. A very basic car and there's not too much that can go wrong with it as there are very few bells and whistles. However, he just uses it for tatting about rather than a daily commute so maybe you will want something a bit more stylish!

Edited to add: insurance was/is very cheap on the suzuki, probably reflecting its puny engine. Car tax is zero. Worth checking the car tax before buying as I seem to remember some little cars sometimes had surprisingly high car tax rates.

Starting with insurance costs is a smart move, especially with a young driver. Consider checking out comparison websites to get an idea of premiums for different vehicles. For the bangernomics approach, keep an eye out for reliable models known for their longevity, like older Japanese cars. Vans could be a practical option too, especially if Moorfield Jr. is keen on the idea. Just make sure to check the vehicle's maintenance history and get a thorough inspection before committing. Good luck with the search!

Lanark wrote:Honda Jazz

They're 18, not 81

Something to be aware of is that NCAP rejigged things about 5 years ago, so older 5* cars might not score as highly now. Alsothey are size banded so a 5* citycar won't fare as well hitting a 20 year old 2* Range Rover. As a slightly leftfield approach, have you looked at an older larger car?

20 year old Saabs, Volvos, Merc CLK etc are quite cheap and can have surprisingloy low insurance. Or if you want to go proper classic then an old Corolla or Focus might be as cheap as a modern smaller car.

Hyundai i10 = yes. £20 to tax cheap insurance etc.

I had a Toyota Aygo for a while. Pretty good. Same as above.

I've said it on here before - a small van (Nemo?). Only 2 seats and its handy having a van in the household.

Tedx wrote:Hyundai i10 = yes. £20 to tax cheap insurance etc.

I had a Toyota Aygo for a while. Pretty good. Same as above.

I've said it on here before - a small van (Nemo?). Only 2 seats and its handy having a van in the household.

"In our day we called it a shaggin waggon son!"

moorfield wrote:Wouldn't rule out a van of some sort (Moorfield Jr quite likes the idea of that).

Tedx wrote: Only 2 seats and its handy having a van in the household.

I worked with young people for 20 years. During that time I've run events with the fire service focusing on their safety. It used to be exciting staged chip pan fires. They don't get called out for fires very often these days it's mostly traffic accidents, I've supported lots of demonstrations where they show their jaws of death operation extracting victims from cars. Chatting to the guys - always been guys - they say that the majority of the calls involved young drivers and the causes of the accidents are often distracted drivers. Some of the freebies they give away are RF jamming pouches to put the phones in to remove that distraction. The advice is for guardians to restrict passengers with their young drivers.
Perhaps a 2 seater is a way of and reducing that risk?

Mind, when I were a young tearaway my chum was a trainee plumber and used to borrow the company van and half a dozen of us would pile in the back go out to the woods for a hoolie.

DrFfybes wrote:
They're 18, not 81

I think the complete lack of 'street cred' is one of the big advantages of the Jazz. You can't drive like an idiot in a Jazz because people would just laugh at you. It is a boring appliance that gets you from A to B.

Practicality is also a plus, you can fold up or take out the rear seats and much better visibility than many other options.

The small size is one downside for safety, years ago I ran into some safety statistics which strongly indicated a correlation between vehicle length and safety (n.b. not height). All car manufacturers seem to be hitting their safety targets by just making everything bigger.

kempiejon wrote:

moorfield wrote:Wouldn't rule out a van of some sort (Moorfield Jr quite likes the idea of that).

Tedx wrote: Only 2 seats and its handy having a van in the household.

I worked with young people for 20 years. During that time I've run events with the fire service focusing on their safety. It used to be exciting staged chip pan fires. They don't get called out for fires very often these days it's mostly traffic accidents, I've supported lots of demonstrations where they show their jaws of death operation extracting victims from cars. Chatting to the guys - always been guys - they say that the majority of the calls involved young drivers and the causes of the accidents are often distracted drivers. Some of the freebies they give away are RF jamming pouches to put the phones in to remove that distraction. The advice is for guardians to restrict passengers with their young drivers.
Perhaps a 2 seater is a way of and reducing that risk?

Mind, when I were a young tearaway my chum was a trainee plumber and used to borrow the company van and half a dozen of us would pile in the back go out to the woods for a hoolie.

....is that the lass from Balamory?

moorfield wrote:This autumn we'll likely be needing to buy a motor for a newly qualified Moorfield Jr. 18 yrs old. Manual licence, probably manual drive. Will be using it regularly for work ~25 mile round trip daily.

Land Rover Series III.
It will also make him proficient in car repairs, familiarise him with interacting on forums, teach him to drive with no 'driver aids' and enhance his resilience especially in the winter.
Example.

V8

88V8 wrote:

moorfield wrote:This autumn we'll likely be needing to buy a motor for a newly qualified Moorfield Jr. 18 yrs old. Manual licence, probably manual drive. Will be using it regularly for work ~25 mile round trip daily.

Land Rover Series III.
It will also make him proficient in car repairs, familiarise him with interacting on forums, teach him to drive with no 'driver aids' and enhance his resilience especially in the winter.
Example.

V8

I own a vintage Land Rover Series III. I'd just check the insurance!

It hardly matters what your first car is. Your world changes overnight. And you're probably going to bend it anyway.

The fewer electronic gizmos the better. (Apart from safety stuff, most of which is mandatory these days.) My daughters had 1 litre Peugeot 205s, which were as old-skool as you could get. (My god, they even had carburettors!) Although okay, that was thirty years ago.

As expected, they both bent them. One tramlined a Mercedes (no damage to the Merc, fortunately), and the other had a disagreement with an oncoming lamp post that simply refused to give way. They both cried bitter tears and learned they weren't infallible, and they both became excellent safe drivers. Job done!

The RF jamming pouch for the mobile sounds like an excellent idea. BTW, can you get a car with no bluetooth? Get thee behind me, Satan.

BJ

Petrol Fiesta or Mazda 2.

MyNameIsUrl wrote:Agree about the banger approach in case of scrapes, but not too old - make sure it's got plenty of airbags. Nothing too fast obviously, but also not something that's so underpowered it can't pull out of junctions quickly enough. And not too small - first cars are often small but I preferred a bit more space for crumple zones for my kids. Think safety first, not cost.

Yes, my first cars (1970s and 1980s) were two V8 Rovers, two 6-cylinder Triumphs, a Humber Sceptre and a 4.2 litre Jag. All bought old and cheap, and thrown away when they failed. Don't think I ever paid more than £500 for a car until my kids came along and then I went Volvo.

Terrible mileage of course but worth it for safety, space and a touch of class. Third party insurance only, of course.

bungeejumper wrote:It hardly matters what your first car is. Your world changes overnight. And you're probably going to bend it anyway.

The fewer electronic gizmos the better. (Apart from safety stuff, most of which is mandatory these days.) My daughters had 1 litre Peugeot 205s, which were as old-skool as you could get. (My god, they even had carburettors!) Although okay, that was thirty years ago.

Yes, to this day I go low tech which, again, means running 20-25 year old cars, preferably built like a tank. In an accident you want to walk away, even if the other guy doesn't.

Get something with a spike in the center of the steering wheel. You can make it a break away if you like but don't tell him.

The idea that everybody will have crashes normalizes bad behaviour. It is entirely possible for a new driver to exercise good judgement and avoid crashing.

9873210 wrote:The idea that everybody will have crashes normalizes bad behaviour. It is entirely possible for a new driver to exercise good judgement and avoid crashing.

Of course it's possible, and I do get your drift. It would be really nice if 27% of all under-35 drivers didn't have an insurance-claim accident in their first year (and doubtless twice that number if we include the shunts that don't get reported). But facts are facts and trends are trends, and when you're young you do stupid stuff. So when a parent goes out to buy a first set of wheels for a new driver, it's a battle of hope against probability, with their own money at stake.

I took some risks on my first motorbike that might easily have gone terribly wrong, but fortunately they didn't. My nephew was given his granny's Fiesta, which must have had all of 12,000 miles on the clock from new, and within a month he'd turned it over on ice, less than half a mile from home, and in the middle of a surburban housing estate.

My neighbour's son got annoyed when somebody hooted at him for being slow off the traffic lights. And put the car into reverse and rammed the complainer. I expect he'd seen that cool trick on Youtube somewhere. (BTW, he's now managing a nine-digit investment fund in the Far East.) It isn't good, but kids with too much testosterone do those things, and they always have.

BJ

Tedx wrote:Hyundai i10 = yes. £20 to tax cheap insurance etc.

I had a Toyota Aygo for a while. Pretty good. Same as above.

I've said it on here before - a small van (Nemo?). Only 2 seats and its handy having a van in the household.

My first vehicle back in 1956 was an ex-GPO telephones van. A Morris 8 Series SZPO, similar to the Series E car but with a 3 speed box. Come the Suez Crisis and I discovered that as a goods vehicle I had to have the goods vehicle petrol ration, 16 gallons per month instead of 4. Bought for £75 and traded in against a new VW Beetle 2 years later for £67/10/0.

There were downsides, like the holes in the floor and the eventual need to stop every 70 miles for 2 gallons of petrol and a quart of oil. My friends were driving things like a 1930 Morris Oxford with a dickey seat, or a 1928 Austin Taxi. One had an elderly Lanchester. The rear was about 4 feet cube. I had the rear seat from a Standard 9, which gave the rear passengers a more comfortable ride. I guess today's equivalent is a Transit van.

TJH