The Lemon Fool

This is the title of a program broadcast on radio 4 today at 16-00 hrs for 30 minutes. It is available on BBC sounds.

I found it fascinating. China already exports more cars than any other country and is set to dominate the world with electric car production.

The USA has already imposed a 27.5% import duty, which Trump, if elected would raise to 100%.

Some people claim the cameras fitted to the cars could send photos back to China, possibly of sensitive locations or cause chaos by disabling the cars.

Have a listen, lots of other stuff as well.

Imbiber wrote:This is the title of a program broadcast on radio 4 today at 16-00 hrs for 30 minutes. It is available on BBC sounds.

I found it fascinating. China already exports more cars than any other country and is set to dominate the world with electric car production.

The USA has already imposed a 27.5% import duty, which Trump, if elected would raise to 100%.

Some people claim the cameras fitted to the cars could send photos back to China, possibly of sensitive locations or cause chaos by disabling the cars.

Have a listen, lots of other stuff as well.

What I find fascinating is the moral dilemma now faced by readers of the Grauniad. Do I buy a nice green Chinese electric car and save the planet, or in buying it, am I supporting those nasty human rights violating Chinese? Oh the irony....

Imbiber wrote:
Some people claim the cameras fitted to the cars could send photos back to China, possibly of sensitive locations or cause chaos by disabling the cars.

These particular concerns are quite unrelated to it being an electric car. Numerous ICE powered vehicles have cameras for lane detection etc. Any modern car requires a computer to work and can be shut down remotely if it has communications.

9873210 wrote:

Imbiber wrote:
Some people claim the cameras fitted to the cars could send photos back to China, possibly of sensitive locations or cause chaos by disabling the cars.

These particular concerns are quite unrelated to it being an electric car. Numerous ICE powered vehicles have cameras for lane detection etc. Any modern car requires a computer to work and can be shut down remotely if it has communications.

And the Italians have been making self disabling cars for years

9873210 wrote:

Imbiber wrote:
Some people claim the cameras fitted to the cars could send photos back to China, possibly of sensitive locations or cause chaos by disabling the cars.

These particular concerns are quite unrelated to it being an electric car. Numerous ICE powered vehicles have cameras for lane detection etc. Any modern car requires a computer to work and can be shut down remotely if it has communications.

I find this quite disturbing really from a privacy point of view. Not only does my phone keep a record of everywhere I go and everything I say, now the car does too!

For the first time ever this Spring, the clock in my new second-hand car self-reset itself when the hour went forward. How did it know!!

Mike4 wrote:
For the first time ever this Spring, the clock in my new second-hand car self-reset itself when the hour went forward. How did it know!!

That's quite old technology. I had an "R" reg car in 1998 which did this. I think it picked up a radio transmission from somewhere.

Alaric wrote:

Mike4 wrote:
For the first time ever this Spring, the clock in my new second-hand car self-reset itself when the hour went forward. How did it know!!

That's quite old technology. I had an "R" reg car in 1998 which did this. I think it picked up a radio transmission from somewhere.

The MSF signal possibly:

https://www.npl.co.uk/msf-signal

RC

Mike4 wrote:I find this quite disturbing really from a privacy point of view. Not only does my phone keep a record of everywhere I go and everything I say, now the car does too!

For the first time ever this Spring, the clock in my new second-hand car self-reset itself when the hour went forward. How did it know!!

Different people, different values.

The clock in my car doesn't reset and I spent years telling people that the sun hadn't changed it's orbit. The time was STILL what it said in the car and if they wanted to add an hour to comply they could.

Seriously I got some funny looks, but you DON'T get more daylight because you change the clocks!

However on the other side of the argument, SatNav is brilliant. No it's far better that you think. But in order to detour around problems it needs to know where you are and where the problems are.

How brilliant is SatNav, well I confess that I currently drive an IC car.
However intending to drive a BEV soon, I have done some research.
ZapMap is like google maps, but dedicated to EV charging points. It will plan your route around charging your EV as needed.
Apparently ABRP (A better route planner) may be even better.

How did your car know the time? Well I don't know your car, but many now are connected to the cellular phone system for at least SatNav updates or GPS for SatNav without. Ignoring anything else, both carry a time signal and GPS knows where, hence timezone and daylight saving.

OH and re-privacy. Forget it with SatNav that knows about traffic jams. Basic SatNav is receive only, but use the internet for anything like that and you are communicating your position with google servers (AGPS).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GNSS
I'm fairly sure that the route planning on the SatNav's I mentioned is not done in the app either.

Mike4 wrote:For the first time ever this Spring, the clock in my new second-hand car self-reset itself when the hour went forward. How did it know!!

It doesn't need to be sophisticated or connected to the internet or whatever).
My central heating timer is very simple and as long as it knows the time and date, it changes forwards one hour on the last sunday in March and back one hour on the last sunday in October.
doolally

doolally wrote:

Mike4 wrote:For the first time ever this Spring, the clock in my new second-hand car self-reset itself when the hour went forward. How did it know!!

It doesn't need to be sophisticated or connected to the internet or whatever).
My central heating timer is very simple and as long as it knows the time and date, it changes forwards one hour on the last sunday in March and back one hour on the last sunday in October.

RDS car radios have been doing this since about the late 80s. However my current car, a 2016 VW with a DAB radio, doesn't seem to manage it itself and needs adjusted manually. Progress?

Scott.

Mike4 wrote:

9873210 wrote:These particular concerns are quite unrelated to it being an electric car. Numerous ICE powered vehicles have cameras for lane detection etc. Any modern car requires a computer to work and can be shut down remotely if it has communications.

I find this quite disturbing really from a privacy point of view. Not only does my phone keep a record of everywhere I go and everything I say, now the car does too!

For the first time ever this Spring, the clock in my new second-hand car self-reset itself when the hour went forward. How did it know!!

I find this quite disturbing really from a privacy point of view. Not only does my phone keep a record of everywhere I go and everything I say, now the car does too!

I don't give a monkey's if the Chinese know where I go, which I doubt they do. I'd be far more concerned about the UK councils and 'authorities' etc knowing this!!

Re. your phone, why do you keep your 'Location' on? I only use mine when I have to use Google maps. You can also go and disable all Google data-gathering. Not to mention a free VPN and GPS emulator.

It's called 'Taking back control'. remember that?

Steve

swill453 wrote:RDS car radios have been doing this since about the late 80s. However my current car, a 2016 VW with a DAB radio, doesn't seem to manage it itself and needs adjusted manually. Progress?

That sounds like a VW thing rather than a DAB thing, at least my DAB clock radio at home automatically adjusts its clock - once you turn on the radio after a clock change.

doolally wrote:My central heating timer is very simple and as long as it knows the time and date, it changes forwards one hour on the last sunday in March and back one hour on the last sunday in October.

No man's life, liberty, or implementation of TZ is safe while the legislature is in session.

The implementation of BST has changed in my lifetime. It will probably change again in a fit of pique (against the EU, against the US, against the English, against cows, ... ). People who hard coded the rules get bitten by this on a regular basis.

(TZ is the Unix time zone database and should be browsed by anybody who needs to be disabused of the notion that this is easy to handle.)

Hallucigenia wrote:

swill453 wrote:RDS car radios have been doing this since about the late 80s. However my current car, a 2016 VW with a DAB radio, doesn't seem to manage it itself and needs adjusted manually. Progress?

That sounds like a VW thing rather than a DAB thing, at least my DAB clock radio at home automatically adjusts its clock - once you turn on the radio after a clock change.

Or swill453 has automatic adjustment turned off in the settings. Or has the time zone set to UTC instead of whatever VW calls the GMT/BST combination.

stevensfo wrote:
I don't give a monkey's if the Chinese know where I go, which I doubt they do. I'd be far more concerned about the UK councils and 'authorities' etc knowing this!!

I'm sure the good capitalist Chinese would be happy to sell the information to UK councils. Or drop an anonymous tip about that illegal parking because you called Taiwan a country.

9873210 wrote:

Imbiber wrote:
Some people claim the cameras fitted to the cars could send photos back to China, possibly of sensitive locations or cause chaos by disabling the cars.

These particular concerns are quite unrelated to it being an electric car. Numerous ICE powered vehicles have cameras for lane detection etc. Any modern car requires a computer to work and can be shut down remotely if it has communications.

The concern is a Chinese car, sending back pictures of sensitive sites and also using facial recognition. Potentially thousands of Chinese spys on our roads.

If any country manages to get a stranglehold on the electric car and truck market and all those vehicles dial home to a command and control server the way that Teslas do, then you have a massive weapon that can be used in any dispute.

"Do what we say or every car and truck in your country will be stalled, no food deliveries, no nothing"

and not a single bomb would need to be dropped.

Imbiber wrote:

9873210 wrote:These particular concerns are quite unrelated to it being an electric car. Numerous ICE powered vehicles have cameras for lane detection etc. Any modern car requires a computer to work and can be shut down remotely if it has communications.

The concern is a Chinese car, sending back pictures of sensitive sites and also using facial recognition. Potentially thousands of Chinese spys on our roads.

Yes, but that concern should be about Chinese cars not electriccars or even Chinese electric cars.

I would also add that:
1) The Chinese don't need to make the whole car for this to be a problem. Being a subcontractor for some part of the optical or control system could be enough.
2) There may not be limited to the Chinese. Do you really trust the Germans or Americans? And most of the global south dislike the British, for pretty good reasons, so what about all those Tata Land Rovers roaming the countryside plotting revenge?

stevensfo wrote:

Mike4 wrote:
I find this quite disturbing really from a privacy point of view. Not only does my phone keep a record of everywhere I go and everything I say, now the car does too!

For the first time ever this Spring, the clock in my new second-hand car self-reset itself when the hour went forward. How did it know!!

I find this quite disturbing really from a privacy point of view. Not only does my phone keep a record of everywhere I go and everything I say, now the car does too!

I don't give a monkey's if the Chinese know where I go, which I doubt they do. I'd be far more concerned about the UK councils and 'authorities' etc knowing this!!

Re. your phone, why do you keep your 'Location' on? I only use mine when I have to use Google maps. You can also go and disable all Google data-gathering. Not to mention a free VPN and GPS emulator.

It's called 'Taking back control'. remember that?

Steve

Because I use AppleMaps perhaps a dozen times a day.

Like you, I don't give a monkey's about the Chinese knowing where I've been, what I've bought and what my political views are today, but come the revolution and the Chinese Village Commandant here is browsing through my posting history looking for faulty thinking, he may well find some stuff to hold against me. Putting it mildly.

How about you?!

Here's the thing. isn't this just something that the Wests' press is conjuring up. To me it seems that most of you on here have taken it hook line and, very heavy, sinker.

Are you lot not staring in the face of a (Chinese/Eastern) society that is far, far above anything we in the west can achieve or produce.

Because they have drive, intellect, learning ability, seek peace and are inscrutably humble.

Just saying.