Wildlife meadows

[Sorcery]

Did anyone see Gardeners world on Friday 12th July at 21:00?
All about creating wild spaces in gardens for wildflowers.
Not sure the program was meant to be intentionally funny but that's how it came across to me, but bear in mind I am an untutored amateur of about six years.
The first 2/3 meadows & gardens were how I understand wild meadows, packed with lots of varieties.

Then one that had me laughing afterwards. An oldish retired fella had volunteered for the task of restoring wild flowers to 60 acres of calcareous grassland. He had been doing it unpaid for 17 years. As far as one could tell he had been planting cowslips only. End result grass + lots of cowslips. Good for the cowslips I suppose but why restrict yourself to that? There are loads of wild plants that are suited to chalky soils. Perhaps everyone is afraid to tell him? ...

Moving on we were introduced to one of Prince Charles meadows. I counted 3 varieties of wild flowers (apart from grasses), Greater Knapweed, Ox eye daisies + something else. Just three! There are more varieties in most fields kept for pasture. It's possible I suppose that there were more varieties hidden beneath the long grass but still. It's almost as if he wanted only varieties that arrived naturally, that's very purist & restrictive though, why not introduce species that would suit the soil for the meadow.

Anyway did not intend to restrict this thread to the TV program, just thought it might be interesting to some to watch on catchup if they were interested.

A very brief introduction to how I got involved follows :
Wanted a natural swimming pond, natural in the sense it had plants & other living things in it.
So six years ago got some local builders in to build me one, took around 6 months & cost a small fortune.
At the end of it, my fairly big garden was a wreck, furrows where the digger tires had been, grass uncut, lots of new plants had invaded the lawn & bare earth. There were possibly hundreds of tons of soil & rock extracted to create space for the pond, it was now used to raise the level of the garden around the pond and which was now bare.
Thoughts turned to what to plant for the pond and surroundings. I turned to Naturescape for advice, reading their catalogue was instructive. Decided I was going to go for a minimal maintenance garden (or wildlife meadow), one cut a year + hedge trimming. That meant lots of perennials (some annuals got included). First year was seed mixes + letting species that drifted in stay. Later once the pond problems were sorted, started to get interested in the non-aquatic garden a bit more. Started to take more of an interest in what was growing, particularly the stuff I couldn't identify.
I'm an ex beekeper so was always into flowers for bees. Last year I thought/heard/remembered about the absence of car windscreen insect killings so for my birthday asked for a few Budleas, tried to propagate some Cotoneasters (have now bought 4) and planted a couple of hundred perennials (maybe 20 species) from seed.

That's enough for now. Still trying & Still learning. If anyone else has something to say about wildlife meadows then I would be interested.

Steve

[supremetwo]

We have not mowed the paddock since mid-April and we have been rewarded by at least four wild bee orchids growing and almost-hidden by the long grass.
One reason for not mowing was the very-pretty seed heads on the grasses - another was the frequent heavy showers during the last week and yet another was our entry for a wild garden award.

The orchids might have been missed had we mowed!

Their story is that this bee-like flower emits the same scent as a female bee ready for it.
The excited males then get covered in much more pollen than otherwise!

[Nimrod103]

As far as one could tell he had been planting cowslips only. End result grass + lots of cowslips. Good for the cowslips I suppose but why restrict yourself to that? There are loads of wild plants that are suited to chalky soils. Perhaps everyone is afraid to tell him? ...

Indeed. I thought the cowslip monoculture sat awkwardly with the Gardener's World message of diversity (of presenters, that is).

I am all for supporting meadows. I leave an area of my lawn to grow like one, much to my wife's annoyance. She prefers green lawns and orderly rows of ever flowering plants. My interest is just raising plants of any kind.

However, I am wary of just spreading wild flowers. I recall buying a packet of wild flower seed with a warning on the back that it should not be spread in the wild - I could not imagine why not. The principle constituent seemed to be red campion, which has now become an invasive menace in one of my flower borders. In general I thought wild flowers were just the ones that turned up without being asked. But the woman at Highgrove insisted that things like hogweed were not welcome. How do I regard one of the wild flowers which turned up in my garden - fox & cubs - which I believe is not native to the UK, but comes from central Europe?

[scotia]

Yes the Cowslip field was strange. Interesting was the need to have poor soil conditions to restrict the grass, or to use specific weeds to fight the grass. I wandered through one of the Coronation wildflower meadows earlier this year - and it seemed entirely populated by healthy grass - maybe the wildflowers come later. Our local council dug up patches of grass in our (mowed grass) park and in the first year they planted an annual (wild?) flower mix. Quite pretty the first year, but not much more than a weed bed with a few self seeding survivors in its second year.

[tjh290633]

Ever since I found wild orchids growing in my lawns I have taken great care to look at what is growing in it. I already had bluebells, primroses and cowslips, but this brought a new dimension. Originally I had 2 common spotted and two pyramidal. Numbers of the spotted began to increase and then they spread to the back of the house. A couple more pyramidal appeared and recently two twayblade have appeared, but this year only a single pyramidal has shown, currently in full bloom.

Obviously grass weedkillers are out and where the flowers are has to stay uncut until flowering has finished. I have just cut much of the area, but some are still flowering, so a second attempt will be called for.

TJH

[JohnB]

In the country park where I volunteer we have 4 fields we manage for orchids on chalk. Our technique is to hay cut in autumn, removing the hay, and then import sheep for 6 weeks for a close crop. Keep it lean to keep them keen.

[Sorcery]

However, I am wary of just spreading wild flowers. I recall buying a packet of wild flower seed with a warning on the back that it should not be spread in the wild - I could not imagine why not. The principle constituent seemed to be red campion, which has now become an invasive menace in one of my flower borders. In general I thought wild flowers were just the ones that turned up without being asked. But the woman at Highgrove insisted that things like hogweed were not welcome. How do I regard one of the wild flowers which turned up in my garden - fox & cubs - which I believe is not native to the UK, but comes from central Europe?

Haven't yet had a problem with seed mixes though have only used those from Naturescape which seem to be OK, roughly 25 species each and an even distribution. Have had a problem with Greater Knapweed (which bees love) taking over a large area. So much so that I rotavated the area + a lot more area of grass and reseeded in March this year. Probably not the done thing. I would keep your fox & cubs, lots of international invaders here in Guernsey, giant Echium and Hydrangeas grow wild here, so just consider them locally native. There are some plants I remove, brambles to save my legs, saplings to stop the meadow turning into woodland, ragwort to prevent poisoning. No sign of hogweed yet. I reject the notion that there is only one way of creating a wildlife meadow or that one way is purer than others. Life is too short to wait for plants to arrive, though it can be great when they do.

Yes the Cowslip field was strange. Interesting was the need to have poor soil conditions to restrict the grass, or to use specific weeds to fight the grass. I wandered through one of the Coronation wildflower meadows earlier this year - and it seemed entirely populated by healthy grass - maybe the wildflowers come later. Our local council dug up patches of grass in our (mowed grass) park and in the first year they planted an annual (wild?) flower mix. Quite pretty the first year, but not much more than a weed bed with a few self seeding survivors in its second year.

Yes it was new to me that yellow rattle (the meadowmaker) actually weakens the grass. It was on one of my seed collections planted 6 years ago and so went looking for it today, found some recognisable by the seed pods and the rattle. Not bad for an annual to keep going for six years without help. As you suggest with your local council anecdote though, it's perhaps unwise or harder work to rely on them alone.

Other posters orchids are a distant dream. One day hopefully.

[Rhyd6]

I didn't see the programme but this post prompted me to go for a walk around our meadow area. We have skylarks nest here each year so don't cut until they've hatched and gone. Around the edges there were various types of trefoils and vetches, plenty of common orchids, campions red and white, knapweed (promptly pulled up), loads of feverfew, spurge, herb robert. Further in cornflowers, woodruff, daisies, mallow, cranesbill, chamomile. There were others I didn't recognise so I'll have to get my books out adn refresh my memory.

R6

[Sorcery]

I didn't see the programme but this post prompted me to go for a walk around our meadow area. We have skylarks nest here each year so don't cut until they've hatched and gone. Around the edges there were various types of trefoils and vetches, plenty of common orchids, campions red and white, knapweed (promptly pulled up), loads of feverfew, spurge, herb robert. Further in cornflowers, woodruff, daisies, mallow, cranesbill, chamomile. There were others I didn't recognise so I'll have to get my books out adn refresh my memory.

R6

Curious to know why you pulled up the knapweed?
It's good for pollinators.
When I rotavated a section of mine, it was because I didn't like the look of a 16m2 area of greater knapweed with nothing else growing. Still have some elsewhere. It's not a "problem" as I understand it, other than for it's successful self seeding.

[Rhyd6]

Hi Sorcery, knapweed is poisonous to horses and as I have several friends who ride and often pop in for a cuppa and use a path that borders the meadow I get rid of the knapweed. It's left where the horses are unable to reach it.
One other plant I'be now identified is mullein, never noticed it before but it's quite an impressive looking plant so I presume it must have self seeded or a passing bird has delivered some seed.

R6

[Sorcery]

Hi Sorcery, knapweed is poisonous to horses and as I have several friends who ride and often pop in for a cuppa and use a path that borders the meadow I get rid of the knapweed. It's left where the horses are unable to reach it.
One other plant I'be now identified is mullein, never noticed it before but it's quite an impressive looking plant so I presume it must have self seeded or a passing bird has delivered some seed.

R6

Perhaps Knapweed is being used as a synonym for Ragwort in different places.
This is what I understand Greater Knapweed to look like : https://www.google.com/search?q=images+ ... SdNwQHjsQM:
This is what I understand Common Ragwort to look like : https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch& ... XGHfXxqqu8

It's the latter yellow one that is poisonous to cattle, horses, dogs, people. Not seen a mention of Greater Knapweed being poisonous, it could be though.

[Sorcery]

Hi Sorcery, knapweed is poisonous to horses and as I have several friends who ride and often pop in for a cuppa and use a path that borders the meadow I get rid of the knapweed. It's left where the horses are unable to reach it.
One other plant I'be now identified is mullein, never noticed it before but it's quite an impressive looking plant so I presume it must have self seeded or a passing bird has delivered some seed.

R6

Perhaps Knapweed is being used as a synonym for Ragwort in different places.
This is what I understand Greater Knapweed to look like : https://www.google.com/search?q=images+ ... SdNwQHjsQM:
This is what I understand Common Ragwort to look like : https://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch& ... XGHfXxqqu8

It's the latter yellow one that is poisonous to cattle, horses, dogs, people. Not seen a mention of Greater Knapweed being poisonous, it could be though.

Hope, R6, you don't think I'm trying to tease you or get one up. It's really easy to confuse names, my wife told me she wanted camellia, when I saw what she was buying I asked "why, it's growing wild all over the garden". I finally understood much later that the camelias she bought are actually hydrangeas.
A word mixup (if that's what it is) is better than pulling the wrong plant though.

[colin]

Then one that had me laughing afterwards. An oldish retired fella had volunteered for the task of restoring wild flowers to 60 acres of calcareous grassland. He had been doing it unpaid for 17 years. As far as one could tell he had been planting cowslips only. End result grass + lots of cowslips. Good for the cowslips I suppose but why restrict yourself to that? There are loads of wild plants that are suited to chalky soils. Perhaps everyone is afraid to tell him? ...

Why were the wildflowers missing in the first place?
I did not see the program unfortunately as it sounds interesting, so did this chap actually say that he only ever planted cowslips or was that all you saw?
Cowslips flower quite early before much else is out except for yellow rattle on chalk grassland, they also thrive in sheep grazed pasture where the sheep seem to avoid them and eat everything else , also the insects that are around when cowslips are in flower are particularly attracted to yellow flowers so almost everything flowering at that time of year is yellow so perhaps that's why you did not see much apart from cowslips.

[bungeejumper]

Why were the wildflowers missing in the first place?
I did not see the program unfortunately as it sounds interesting, so did this chap actually say that he only ever planted cowslips or was that all you saw?
Cowslips flower quite early before much else is out except for yellow rattle on chalk grassland, they also thrive in sheep grazed pasture where the sheep seem to avoid them and eat everything else.

Don't know whether this is relevant, but Gardeners World will often film a feature a month or more before it's due to go out, so it wouldn't be surprising if the 'wrong' plants seemed to be in bloom for the time of year.

Last Thursday we went to RHS Harlow Carr. On Friday it featured on GW, where Nick (err, I forget the name) was raving about the lush plants in the bog garden that runs through the HC estate. What was funny here was not just that many of the plants he showed in the programme had not been in flower for weeks (and the hostas he admired had been half-destroyed by slugs since the filming!).

No, what was really amusing was that the exquisite bog garden he featured in the programme had been turned into a soggy, muddy quagmire by the arrival of two JCBs, which had gouged out thirty tons of mud and were now hoisting dozens of rocks the size of refrigerators into a huge scenic pile. The clear brook on Gardeners World was running like frothy cocoa. Not such a wild paradise after all.....

BTW, the wildflower episode is on iPlayer at https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... episode-18


BJ

[Sorcery]

Then one that had me laughing afterwards. An oldish retired fella had volunteered for the task of restoring wild flowers to 60 acres of calcareous grassland. He had been doing it unpaid for 17 years. As far as one could tell he had been planting cowslips only. End result grass + lots of cowslips. Good for the cowslips I suppose but why restrict yourself to that? There are loads of wild plants that are suited to chalky soils. Perhaps everyone is afraid to tell him? ...

Why were the wildflowers missing in the first place?
I did not see the program unfortunately as it sounds interesting, so did this chap actually say that he only ever planted cowslips or was that all you saw?
Cowslips flower quite early before much else is out except for yellow rattle on chalk grassland, they also thrive in sheep grazed pasture where the sheep seem to avoid them and eat everything else , also the insects that are around when cowslips are in flower are particularly attracted to yellow flowers so almost everything flowering at that time of year is yellow so perhaps that's why you did not see much apart from cowslips.

It wasn't clear why other wildflowers were missing, all the chap talked about was cowslips and apart from grass, that was all that was shown, rows and rows of cowslips. As you suggest it could have been too early in the year for other wild plants to be growing.
It's also entirely possible that the TV program omitted in video other plants being planted. He was transplanting small cowslips he had grown in peat in pots from donated seed, if that helps indicate the time of year.
If it was only cowslips he had planted (for 17 years) it would have taken exceptional diplomacy just to ask the question "Are cowslips the only plant you have planted?" even without getting to why? I can see why the TV program didn't ask.
Ditto with one of the Prince of Wales meadows, it was just long grass with about 3 varieties of wildflowers poking though or at least showing in the TV program. It would have been perfectly fair game for that meadow to ask the presumably paid gardener what the aims were and methods used. No questions like that though were shown.

Changing the subject a little, I am very unsure about what grows in my meadow. I can't recognise one type of dandelion from another and there are lots of different "dandelion like" flowers. Ditto with the carrot family, all those cow parsley type flowers look very similar. Have taken to photographing everything flowering in the meadow to try and identify sometime over the winter. Am using Collins "Complete British Wild Flowers", my wife tells me there is an app for a smartphone that will help. What do others use?

[colin]

Harrap's Wildflowers is particularly easy to use I find with good photographs of the more common wild flowers. I tried the Picture This smart phone app,which was my first practical encounter with artificial intelligence, I can quite see how it will transform society I thought it was amazing. If you have clear pictures that are in focus they can be loaded into the app from your gallery, if you want to use it in the field it requires an intenet connection. It costs £20 a year which is why I did not take it further than the free trial. I also have great difficulty getting sharp pics with my phone which allways tries to focus on the grass behind the flower! most annoying.

[Golem]

Have been into wild flowers ( HYPs too ) since childhood. It is my experience that the best wildflower ID book is 'The Wild Flowers of Britain and Northern Europe' Fitter Blamey My 1974 edn cost £1.60 ! Updated and reprinted many times since.

[madhatter]

I have also bought the Collins Wild Flower Guide which has identification keys and more plants than the Harrap, but is a big heavy sod to carry on the off chance, and an e-book version of the Harrap, which I also like.

The free App I use is PlantNet which is available for both Android and iOS, and allows several pictures to be included before asking it to have a bash at identification. So you can use different angles of say the flower, separate photos of leaves, fruit, bark etc as appropriate.

It gives a number of possibles, with a star rating of how ‘confident’ it is. Although free, it has no advertisements.

The only annoyance is that after a recent update it now puts a new copy of any photos it has been given, back in the Photos album so I need to keep deleting the duplicates.

It doesn’t always get the right answer but usually does.

A few days ago, I actually went on a guided wildflower walk for the first time. I noticed the guide used an obviously well thumbed copy of something called The Wildflower Key by Francis Rose.

[tjh290633]

I use Keble Martin.

Not all that easy, because the plates are in the middle, and my copy is disintegrating. But it must be a 50 year old paperback.

The pictures are the best part.

TJH

[madhatter]

Comparing the newer books with the older ones, my older books often give a bit more information about the history of the plant uses, naming etc, and with some very good illustrations, but the main shortcoming is perhaps that you may easily find plants in the wild that just aren’t in them.

Some will be garden escapes that have become naturalised, others might have changed their distribution due to climate changes or building or changes in farming practices.