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Belle de Jour Rose

wildlife, gardening, environment, Rural living, Pets and Vets
OLTB
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Belle de Jour Rose

#428049

Postby OLTB » July 16th, 2021, 11:33 am

Morning all.

My parents gave us a wonderful Belle de Jour rose bush recently which had a lovely array of yellow flowers. The bush was in a fairly large pot and I planted the bush in the garden and since then, all of the petals have fallen off. I have dead-headed these but have been wondering if I made a mistake somewhere (is it too late in the year to plant in the ground?). We have a clay soil so I'm not too sure if this is ok for roses. It's planted in a border where there is no morning sun but plenty of early afternoon - evening sun. I'm not an experienced gardener so any advice is very welcome.

Cheers, OLTB.

pje16
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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#428051

Postby pje16 » July 16th, 2021, 11:37 am

I'm not an expert gardner but have planted roses in clay soil
My best example grew and flowered magnificenly probably as it was in the sun all day and getting watered very well as whenever it rained the drain pipe from the porch roof discharged right next to it
good luck

Dod101
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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#428060

Postby Dod101 » July 16th, 2021, 12:11 pm

You probably gave it a shock when planting it out in the garden in the middle of its growing season. It will probably be OK but I would mulch it and try to dig some in around the roots, water it and keep it moist for the rest of the summer. The mulch will help that. Then leave it and see what happens. It will probably come away again, if not this year, then next.

Dod

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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#428072

Postby mc2fool » July 16th, 2021, 1:03 pm

Dod's "shock" theory is almost certainly correct, but you may want to check over the advice in https://www.rhsplants.co.uk/plants/_/rosa-belle-de-jour-deljauper-pbr/classid.2000040031/

Note particularly that it prefers "fertile, humus-rich, moist, well-drained soil" and, aside from moist, clay is none of those, although it's not a disaster, as the number of roses growing in gardens across London shows. ;)

I have clay soil and for planting anything (including roses) I dig a hole far too big and fill it with a mix of manure and home grown organic soil, being usually either or both of the bottom of the compost pile or the two autumns old leaf mulch pile, and any non-clay soil from the planting bed. Ready made commercial compost is probably just as good. ;)

I also always use RootGrow, with gel for bare root plants or just dry otherwise, and sprinkle a very thin circle of bone meal around the plant just before the final layer of soil.

Now, yours is already in the ground so digging it up and replanting again risks a further shock to it, so I'd recommend just very carefully digging around it, far enough away to not damage any roots, and adding some better soil/compost. Also, make sure the plant is well pressed into the soil and the soil well pressed down. Roses in particular like to be well compacted in, without any looseness or air pockets around the roots.

Dod101
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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#428080

Postby Dod101 » July 16th, 2021, 1:18 pm

Yes good fertile soil as described is necessary for all roses I would say. The reason I did not suggest digging in too much mulch is, as mc2fool says, to avoid further disturbance to the roots, The mulch, if kept moist will be taken into the soil by worms in any case so be quite liberal with it and keep it well watered over the summer. In fact my recollection is that clay soil has good nutrient content but it needs humus to break it up a bit. I am going back a long while when I had a garden on clay soil. It was surprisingly good for growing stuff but was hard work to dig!

Dod

OLTB
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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#428120

Postby OLTB » July 16th, 2021, 3:05 pm

Thanks all - I gave the soil a good turning over before planting, breaking up the 'slabs' of earth with the spade and put in a layer of compost and water although I fear I didn't / haven't watered enough recently so will ensure I bathe it well tonight once the sun goes down and mulch well as recommended.

Cheers, OLTB.

88V8
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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#428309

Postby 88V8 » July 17th, 2021, 4:34 pm

OLTB wrote:I planted the bush in the garden and since then, all of the petals have fallen off.

Generally it's a good idea with any new plant to harden it off, especially if it's come from a quasi-indoor environment, such as in many garden centers.

Prepare the ground where you're going to plant so the soil can settle... meanwhile start the plant acclimatising by sitting it in the garden for a week in a sheltered spot, then move it to where it's going to be planted for a couple of days.
Then plant it.

One can sometimes get away with plonking it straight it, but not always.

V8

Nimrod103
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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#428621

Postby Nimrod103 » July 18th, 2021, 9:50 pm

Clay soils are usually nutrient rich and water retentive. They are definitely improved with digging in compost, and only have problems if they are over compacted.

I would agree RootGrow or any other microrhyzal fungal mxture enhances root growth and I have found it helps roses establish quickly.

A couple of extra planting points about roses - the graft should always be about the level of the soil surface, never deep nor above ground, and young roses tend to get swamped if they are squeezed into overcrowded borders, they do like plenty of space around them while they are getting established.

OLTB
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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#437822

Postby OLTB » August 27th, 2021, 3:15 pm

Image

It lives!

Thanks for all of your help / suggestions.

Cheers, OLTB.

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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#437823

Postby pje16 » August 27th, 2021, 3:20 pm

Blooming pretty :)

Arborbridge
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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#437864

Postby Arborbridge » August 27th, 2021, 5:45 pm

Conventional wisodm is that clay soils are very good for roses, and in my experience moving from a light chalk garden to clay bears that out. I'm not sure why Belle de Jour should be any different, but mc2fool does give some good advice.

Roses need plenty of nutrients, which is what clay provides: yours has just had a shock and will recover, most likely. Water well then mulch well with compost or rotted manure. You can trowel it in the first few inches of soil if you like, but the worms will do it for you. If your clay is literally solid to the surface you ought to use plenty of compost to open the soil up and make it lighter. If it's just a clay mix, or clay layer a foot or two down, that's not so necessary.
Monty Don is also on clay and says: the best thing you can do, if you do nothing else in your garden, is every year to give it a generous layer of mulch.

My garden has areas of clay which are like solid rock just a foot down, but mercifully most of it has a good depth of soil before this "bedrock" layer. Unlike the chalk I was on where water soaked straight through, water in this garden just sits on top. In winter it's like marshland and we've even had ducks paddling around on it.

I can see some definite signs of insect activity on those leaves, and that may be part of the problem. Having a shock like your Belle de Jour will have weakened it generally, and I remember being told that this means a rose is less able to defend itself against insect attack.

Arb.

OLTB
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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#437870

Postby OLTB » August 27th, 2021, 6:06 pm

Arborbridge wrote:Conventional wisodm is that clay soils are very good for roses, and in my experience moving from a light chalk garden to clay bears that out. I'm not sure why Belle de Jour should be any different, but mc2fool does give some good advice.

Roses need plenty of nutrients, which is what clay provides: yours has just had a shock and will recover, most likely. Water well then mulch well with compost or rotted manure. You can trowel it in the first few inches of soil if you like, but the worms will do it for you. If your clay is literally solid to the surface you ought to use plenty of compost to open the soil up and make it lighter. If it's just a clay mix, or clay layer a foot or two down, that's not so necessary.
Monty Don is also on clay and says: the best thing you can do, if you do nothing else in your garden, is every year to give it a generous layer of mulch.

My garden has areas of clay which are like solid rock just a foot down, but mercifully most of it has a good depth of soil before this "bedrock" layer. Unlike the chalk I was on where water soaked straight through, water in this garden just sits on top. In winter it's like marshland and we've even had ducks paddling around on it.

I can see some definite signs of insect activity on those leaves, and that may be part of the problem. Having a shock like your Belle de Jour will have weakened it generally, and I remember being told that this means a rose is less able to defend itself against insect attack.

Arb.


Thanks Arb - your comments are very helpful. I saw various things online suggesting a ‘bucket’ of water every day for the first week and that, along with some mulching as suggested by others seems to have done the trick. I just need to fence off the rose some more as our chickens do like to scratch around newly dug up / fresh soil or compost...

Cheers, OLTB.

Arborbridge
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Re: Belle de Jour Rose

#437875

Postby Arborbridge » August 27th, 2021, 6:14 pm

OLTB wrote:Thanks Arb - your comments are very helpful. I saw various things online suggesting a ‘bucket’ of water every day for the first week and that, along with some mulching as suggested by others seems to have done the trick. I just need to fence off the rose some more as our chickens do like to scratch around newly dug up / fresh soil or compost...

Cheers, OLTB.


So glad to hear she has recovered - they are usually pretty tough. Good luck with her next season - and maybe you will add some other beauties to keep her company?
I would suggest some favourites, but I think this thread would become a huge list of roses!

Arb.


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