Puppy Advice

[JessUK98]

Hello all. My beautiful old girl had to be PTS at the start of this year (she'd reached the grand old age of 14 and had a few health problems towards the end). We've decided to get another dog. Ordinarily we'd adopt (last dog was a rescue), but because we have a pre-school child can't find any rescues that will consider us.

Locally there's a beagle and a staffie that interest us. We went to view the beagles today - there's a boy & girl, 15 weeks old (born start of Feb). Mum and dad were also there, apparently this was an accidental litter, mums first. They looked to be in good health and up to date with vaccinations and are chipped (I was shown the paper work). The parents, especially the mum, were brilliant. Really friendly, and well up for strokes and playing ball. I'd have quite happily taken the mum home there and then Puppies though, seemed very nervous and would hide when approached. They were fine with the owner who had to pick them up and hand them to me. Very wiggly trying to get away but stayed long enough for me to check them out.
I'd have thought they'd have been a bit more curious though? Should I be concerned with them being this skittish at 15 weeks? They are doing well with being on the lead and have good recall (I've seen videos of them all off lead and coming when called), and are partially house trained. They've clearly just not had much visitors, but are apparently good with dogs they've met on their walks.

We've not seen the Staffie yet, but that one is older at nearly 8 months and can apparently also be seen with mum. They have a pocket bully as well, but would not consider one of them. Other puppies seem to be border collies (absolutely loads of them, I guess to be expected when there's a lot of farms about here), French bulldogs and cockapoos with the odd labrador. Not interested in handbag dogs or larger breeds. Would rather a medium sized dog that I could eventually take running with me and will be alright with children and other dogs (our rescue was a staffie X and was anti-social with other dogs so was a bit of a pain, especially during tourist season when all the off lead untrained labradors were out in force. She really hated yellow labs!)

Any advice?
TIA,

Jess

[servodude]

It's really a personal taste thing.

I love collies but I wouldn't commit to one at present; my dad gets a few miles walk every day with his (or longer if it decides to take off after a deer!)
That said they do vary a great deal in personality (they seem super smart with quirks to match) and most folk who breed them for work would be able to spot any more suited to a sofa than sheep quite quickly.

I have a good friend who has had a few beagles and they've all been very charming but stubborn; I've heard they can be trained but I've yet to see it. They can be especially good fun if you can get a jacket for them to impersonate a sniffer dog.

[AsleepInYorkshire]

We have a Border Collie and a Labradoodle. We also dog sit my late Mum's Yorkshire Terrier. I'm going to echo what servodude has said about Collies. They are working dogs and highly intelligent. We don’t take our dogs for walks every day. However, we do have a large back garden and they can come and go through their dog door. During the day our collie often sits on the top terrace in the garden and looks down on her flock. Collies can display obsessive behaviours. We take all the dogs to a private enclosed field where they can be let off their leads and we throw balls for them. It’s a 6-acre field and costs £8 for an hours hire.

Overall our Collie is a great girl. She’s called Winnie and weighs about 23kg’s. Both our dogs are at the high end of weight as they get a huge amount of exercise every day running in the garden, so they are bulked up with muscle mass. And having a dog door does mean we are not getting up to let them out for their toilet needs. We also have a reasonable sized home with dog beds in the living room which they both use, although Milo spends a lot of time sat on the settee with anyone he can cuddle up to.

As we have two dogs plus one and a dog door we can always go out whenever we want for as long as we want in the knowledge that they have each other for company. The large back garden helps to exercise them, and they really do have mad half hours virtually every day. Their assault course includes the lounge, dining room, kitchen, and utility room. They literally use up every inch of indoor and outdoor space.

A dogs behaviour is usually a reflection of its owners ability to interact with it. I’ve had dogs since I was 15. They all have their own personality regardless of breed. However, we were able to get a Collie because we have a dog door, a large back garden, space in our home and another dog for company when we are out. As much as I’d like to say to you go for it, I think the better advice is to suggest great caution with Collie’s.

AiY(D)

[JessUK98]

Thanks for the replies so far. I think i’m angling for the beagle (or similar) but concerned at how nervous the pups seemed to be.
I wouldn’t get a collie if I’m honest. My dad had one who was lovely (but wouldn’t have trusted it long term with “boisterous” children), but most of the others I’ve met have had a bit of a screw loose, even the well trained ones.
Other half wants a Staffie (mainly because our last dog was a Staffie cross and quite frankly the best dog ever. Apart from being reactive with other dogs). They are lovely dogs but I’m also now weary of bull breeds around children with all the news reports, but appreciate it’s the way they’ve been brought up and treated. Any dog can attack, it’s just they have powerful locking jaws so would do more damage (pretty sure statistically labradors bite more people).
I’m not keen on labs mainly due to their size. My step dad has a lab and he’s usually been to the vets with some kind of damage to his tail from constantly smacking it against doors, furniture and peoples shins. Being hit with a wagging labrador tail hurts also the slobber is like nothing I’ve ever seen before. Can drench though your trouser leg in seconds and one shake of the head and it’s even on the ceiling (well not quite but you get the idea).

[BigB]

Thanks for the replies so far. I think i’m angling for the beagle (or similar) but concerned at how nervous the pups seemed to be.
I wouldn’t get a collie if I’m honest. My dad had one who was lovely (but wouldn’t have trusted it long term with “boisterous” children), but most of the others I’ve met have had a bit of a screw loose, even the well trained ones.
Other half wants a Staffie (mainly because our last dog was a Staffie cross and quite frankly the best dog ever. Apart from being reactive with other dogs). They are lovely dogs but I’m also now weary of bull breeds around children with all the news reports, but appreciate it’s the way they’ve been brought up and treated. Any dog can attack, it’s just they have powerful locking jaws so would do more damage (pretty sure statistically labradors bite more people).
I’m not keen on labs mainly due to their size. My step dad has a lab and he’s usually been to the vets with some kind of damage to his tail from constantly smacking it against doors, furniture and peoples shins. Being hit with a wagging labrador tail hurts also the slobber is like nothing I’ve ever seen before. Can drench though your trouser leg in seconds and one shake of the head and it’s even on the ceiling (well not quite but you get the idea).

My wife is the dog chooser/whisperer in our house. From the scenario you describe re the beagles, she'd also be nervous. Her approach with a litter (if possible) would be to sit among them, passively, and wait for one or more to show interest, and then have some interactions and go from there, ideally with the one that was mot interested in her. Not sure she'd take a dog from a litter who fully ignored her.

Choosing an 8 month old dog I guess comes with different factors - more training/socialisation has already been done, which could be positive and/or negative. With a younger puppy the theory is you get more of a blank canvas.

Good luck!
B

[redsturgeon]

I've heard that beagles can be a nightmare as a pet.

I've also heard that Staffies are one of the best dogs with children.

Since you had one before I'd be tempted to get the same again.

John

[DrFfybes]

Thanks for the replies so far. I think i’m angling for the beagle (or similar) but concerned at how nervous the pups seemed to be.

If you are concerned, walk away.

There is a huge surfeit of dogs available at the moment, OK so your child rules you out of some of them, but it doesn't rule others out, which means the pool of available dogs is much higher than people that want them.

The RSPCA WILL rehome dogs in families with young children, however they are careful about what they will let you have - if you have your heart set on a puppy then you'll struggle from a rescue centre as the have obvious conerns, but then again the same concenrs apply irrespective of where you get a puppy from. Perhaps you should queston buying from a breeder who will sell a puppy to someone with a young child(!).

Personally I'd rather take something 18 months or so old that has settled down a bit and that you can see how it will interact with your young child, although perhaps we went too far the other way with our dog, which was already about 14 years old when we got her from the RSPCA. Then again we have a large garden secured only by a hedge and stock fence (which doesn't keep out much smaller than a sheep) so on paper that rules us out from most rescue organisations.

Paul

[bungeejumper]

I've heard that beagles can be a nightmare as a pet.

LOL, when I was a teenager my friends' parents got a beagle, and it was certainly very friendly. But, as the phrase has it, Too Much Dog. A hunting dog, of course, and this one was born to run. And run. And run.

It didn't take long before the daily eight/ten miles became a bit of a burden, and soon it became five, then three, and that was when the trouble began. One afternoon they left him alone in the kitchen for a while, having been warned not to let him have the run of the house. And on their return he had basically eaten the new kitchen - pulled the doors open and chewed them to bits. Dragged the curtains down and chewed a leg off a chair. Quite a lot of energy expended, which I'm sure made him feel much better. It was a good job they loved him.

Remind me to tell you some time about the other friend who got a Belgian shepherd for his hillside farm in France. Basically twice the size of an alsatian, with a very short memory and a reputation for eating small children. He didn't have any children, but the cat took to living on the roof. Eventually he got the cat though. And duly ate it.

BJ

[JessUK98]

I’ve arranged to go and see the beagle pups again, this time going for a walk with them (owners, mum, dad and the 2 pups). See what I feel like then.
One of my cousins has a beagle and sings her praises, as does a friend that has a male beagle. Both say that if they catch an interesting scent though they do one. So my cousin always keeps hers on a lead and friend still risks it (and often tells stories of how he’s rolled in fox poo or managed to get over a fence to run about with a deer leg it then refused to give up).
The daily exercise shouldn’t be a problem. Before our old girl started slowing down she’d do 3 miles in the morning, quick trip round the block at lunch time and then another 2 or 3 miles in the evening. I WFH now so would be able to do about a mile run at lunchtime as well when they are old enough. If I get desparate I can always put them on the treadmill

[JessUK98]

So I’m picking up the beagle pup tomorrow. She’ll be 16 weeks old by this point. I hope I’ve not made a massive mistake now. She’s been much better with me, but seems scared of my son as she’s not been around children. I’m hoping she will settle down since she’s still quite young. I’ve dug the old dog crate out and have that with a blanket over the top ready so that can be her safe space. I’ve got her a heartbeat teddy which I’ll get the mums scent on as well. Hopefully I can get my son to not be quite so loud around her for a bit. I’ve already told him he’s not to harass her on her first day as she’ll be upset at not being with her family, like he’d be upset if he was taken away and sent to live with people he didn’t know. So he’s aware he’s to leave her alone. I said he might be able to just sit in the same room with his iPad if he’s a good boy.
I’ve looked for puppy classes as well so we’re gonna go to some of those, they do agility and scent classes as well so hopefully that will be good for her when she’s a bit older. If necessary there’s a dog behavioural specialist that’s relatively close who has excellent reviews.

[JessUK98]

Whilst I’m here, what are people’s favoured ways of transporting their pups in the car? I have a Volvo V70 and our old girl would just go in the boot with the cargo net up. Think sticking a puppy not used to the car straight in the boot unrestrained might not be the way to go.
I have a seatbelt clip, could have her on backseat but not sure about that for a potentially wiggly pup.
Should I get another dog crate for the boot? Then how would I stop that moving about. Ideally I want her to come with me in the car to pick up the little lad from pre school everyday.

[doug2500]

If you look there will probably be some hooks or loops in your boot so a crate with some bungees is what I would do, and have done. Saves any chewing of car too. They won't be happy first of all but soon get used to it and it just becomes their space like the house crate.

[JessUK98]

Think I do have some loops in the boot, and some bungies in the garage. So a crate in the back is potentially the way to go.
So far I have a medium sized carrier with zips at the front and top. Similar to the cat carriers, but fabric. I just clip this onto the back seat belt and cover the top with a blanket and leave a little gap for her to watch me (so she's back seat opposite side to me). This is obviously only short term as there's no way she's going to fit into that for too long!

She's a timid little thing, but has bonded well with me. She's still a bit weary of my other half and scared of the 4 y/o, but she is much better than she was. Her safe place seems to be my home office where I have made her a "den". She will actively come looking for me if I leave the room, and will now even sit near me with the 4 y/o so long as he's not loud, and will sometimes take treats from him. Think she's going to take a bit of work to socialise in comparison to an 8 week old puppy brought up in a household with children. I've got in contact with a "Level 6 qualified canine behaviourist and trainer" and we'll be having a 1 to 1 session next week before booking her into puppy classes. I do wonder if I should have gone for an 8 week old puppy but I do like to make my life difficult Also I wanted a Beagle and there were no others within a reasonable distance (I didn't like the idea of not seeing the puppy before hand and just going to pick it up).
She's very affectionate with me though, so I'm hoping she'll grow in confidence with other people.

[servodude]

Think I do have some loops in the boot, and some bungies in the garage. So a crate in the back is potentially the way to go.
So far I have a medium sized carrier with zips at the front and top. Similar to the cat carriers, but fabric. I just clip this onto the back seat belt and cover the top with a blanket and leave a little gap for her to watch me (so she's back seat opposite side to me). This is obviously only short term as there's no way she's going to fit into that for too long!

She's a timid little thing, but has bonded well with me. She's still a bit weary of my other half and scared of the 4 y/o, but she is much better than she was. Her safe place seems to be my home office where I have made her a "den". She will actively come looking for me if I leave the room, and will now even sit near me with the 4 y/o so long as he's not loud, and will sometimes take treats from him. Think she's going to take a bit of work to socialise in comparison to an 8 week old puppy brought up in a household with children. I've got in contact with a "Level 6 qualified canine behaviourist and trainer" and we'll be having a 1 to 1 session next week before booking her into puppy classes. I do wonder if I should have gone for an 8 week old puppy but I do like to make my life difficult Also I wanted a Beagle and there were no others within a reasonable distance (I didn't like the idea of not seeing the puppy before hand and just going to pick it up).
She's very affectionate with me though, so I'm hoping she'll grow in confidence with other people.

I believe the route to a beagle's heart is through her nose (and stomach) - can you fill your boy's pockets with bacon

Best of luck but I'm sure you'll have fun

[JessUK98]

I believe the route to a beagle's heart is through her nose (and stomach) - can you fill your boy's pockets with bacon

Best of luck but I'm sure you'll have fun

Indeed, she does like sniffing absolutely everything, especially the inside of shoes

Unfortunately she has caught the scent of the neighbourhood cats, and they've got a path under the hedge, so I need to properly beagle proof the back garden. Not sure if chicken wire would work (I've used that to cover the bottom of the front gate and all the railings out front). 2 sides are stone wall and 2 sides is hedge with a few gaps made bigger by cats and next doors kid and his friends thinking it's great fun to go through the hedge between my garden and theirs. I chicken wired the kids entry points a few years back, but I'm sure a determined beagle puppy will make easy work of the rest.
My other dog knew which side her bread was buttered so not once did she even bother looking for an escape route. I could leave the front door and garden gates wide open and she'd stay put.

So any suggestions for beagle proofing a hedge would be appreciated. I was thinking of cutting the hedge right back and putting a link chain kind of fence up. It's just getting someone to do that and without it costing an arm and a leg.

[JessUK98]

Workman here currently putting some chain link fencing in. He’s cut the hedge back and is going to dig a small trench to bury some of the fencing in to stop any digging under the fence. So that should hopefully then be escape proof.

Had a 121 with the behaviourist, whose given some advice on how to deal with her socialisation. She said the next fear stage in puppies is around 8-9 months old for medium sized dogs so we can still hopefully work with her through that stage and get a relatively well adjusted dog, it’s just going to take longer than it would for a “normal” puppy.

She’s coming along really well and is getting better with other members of the household. I’m still her safe space so if I leave the room she usually comes with me, but she’s actively seeing what the others are doing and happy to engage directly with the other half now.

Next step is puppy classes. Hopefully she will gain her confidence as I’d really like to do some scent work with her.

[Dod101]

I know nothing about dogs and have no interest but I am impressed that you are able to get a contractor at a few days notice to come along and remove a hedge and put in a decent fence.

Dod

[JessUK98]

I know nothing about dogs and have no interest but I am impressed that you are able to get a contractor at a few days notice to come along and remove a hedge and put in a decent fence.

Dod

We are really lucky in that he lives literally just round the corner from us and has done work for us before. Apparently it was too hot today to plaster on his current job as it might dry too fast and crack (or something like that), so he said he'd get started on this for us. He's not taking the hedge down, just cut it right back where the chain link is going, with the theory that the hedge will eventually grow back and cover it. He's dug the trenches as well, and the materials should be arriving tomorrow, so shouldn't hopefully take him too long, even if it's just in the evenings around other stuff.

[Dod101]

I know nothing about dogs and have no interest but I am impressed that you are able to get a contractor at a few days notice to come along and remove a hedge and put in a decent fence.

Dod

We are really lucky in that he lives literally just round the corner from us and has done work for us before. Apparently it was too hot today to plaster on his current job as it might dry too fast and crack (or something like that), so he said he'd get started on this for us. He's not taking the hedge down, just cut it right back where the chain link is going, with the theory that the hedge will eventually grow back and cover it. He's dug the trenches as well, and the materials should be arriving tomorrow, so shouldn't hopefully take him too long, even if it's just in the evenings around other stuff.

Well done. I should imagine trying to plaster in hot weather is a bit like laying concrete in frosty conditions; it just does not work. What you are having done is just what neighbours of mine did with a chain link fence across the way from me. and it works in the same circumstances. I wish you well. My daughter has a couple of cocker spaniels and she has had one since she was a puppy a few weeks old (the dog that is!), so I am not entirely ignorant of dogs.

Dod