Horse Manure

[neversay]

I have received a few bags of horse manure for the garden and thought I could just throw them on the vegetable patch (and around the raspberry/fruit bushes) over winter. However, I'm variously reading that it should be composted first. Can I quickly ask what others would do?

[Gengulphus]

I've no actual experience with manure, but a couple of especially relevant extracts from https://www.rhs.org.uk/advice/profile?PID=865:

"Ideally materials should be in a well-rotted state, especially manures. In some cases un-rotted or partially rotted organic matter is offered; these will not look as dark or as uniform in texture and colour. On sanitary grounds these materials are best stacked, covered and used when decomposition is complete. If used fresh apply at half the usual rate and not to ground used for crops that will be eaten raw (e.g. salads)."

and:

"Organic matter can be stacked and stored for use later. Aim to make a stack on the smallest feasible 'footprint', cover with rainproof material to prevent nutrients being washed out and to exclude weed seeds, and ensure any run-off does not enter drains or ditches, and ideally be collected and applied to the garden."

Not the only parts of the link that are worth reading, by the way!

Gengulphus

[ReformedCharacter]

I have received a few bags of horse manure for the garden and thought I could just throw them on the vegetable patch (and around the raspberry/fruit bushes) over winter. However, I'm variously reading that it should be composted first. Can I quickly ask what others would do?

Fresh or uncomposted manure may burn the roots because it is too acid, it may also tie up nitrogen temporarily. If you are not growing veg in your beds now then it should be fine to apply it now and then dig in in the Spring. I don't think I would apply it to fruit bushes now. Fruit bushes - and I include Rasps - probably would not welcome it and certainly not uncomposted, they don't generally require a high N feed. When well broken down it would make a good mulch though. If you normally make compost and have a sizeable heap it would be good to a mix it with your existing compost.

RC

[AleisterCrowley]

I was expecting another Carillion update...

[sg31]

I planted rhubarb at the beginning of the year, tiny little crowns barely worthy of the name. The stables across the road sent over the days stable sweeping which were as 'fresh' as could be (still warm). As the soil was not the best I thought 'Why not' and dug it in a spit deep.

Maybe it had matured by the time the rhubarb roots had got down that far because I've never seen such large rhubarb plants, Gunnera esq.

I'm looking forward to picking the first crop next year.

[Gengulphus]

I planted rhubarb at the beginning of the year, tiny little crowns barely worthy of the name. The stables across the road sent over the days stable sweeping which were as 'fresh' as could be (still warm). As the soil was not the best I thought 'Why not' and dug it in a spit deep.

Maybe it had matured by the time the rhubarb roots had got down that far because I've never seen such large rhubarb plants, Gunnera esq.

I'm looking forward to picking the first crop next year.

My experience is that rhubarb can do that sort of thing without help! A few years back, I planted a couple of moderate-sized rhubarb crowns in some ground that I'd cleared a Leylandii hedge from. I was a bit short of time, so I didn't try to improve the unimpressive-looking and probably-depleted-by-Leylandii soil - the idea was just to get something in to try to discourage the weeds. If it didn't do well, I could try again the following year... I needn't have worried - within 3 months, the rhubarb plants were over 5 feet across with numerous big leaves and stalks! So much so that I decided to take a first crop that year - I knew the standard advice about waiting until the second year, but it was completely obvious that these plants could take it...

Gengulphus

[TonyB]

I don't think you will have a problem with using the manure how you describe. The roots of the fruit bushes will be pretty inactive in the wind down to winter, besides which the actual nitrogen content of manure is relatively low (w/w or w/v) when compared to manufactured fertilisers.

Gardening literature is full of old wives tales and anecdotes which get trotted out routinely without much scientific basis. The whole subject needs modernising, similar to what is happening currently in cooking.

TonyB

[ReformedCharacter]

Gardening literature is full of old wives tales and anecdotes which get trotted out routinely without much scientific basis. The whole subject needs modernising, similar to what is happening currently in cooking.

TonyB

I would be interested to know which 'old wives tales and anecdotes' you think need modernising. The RHS site might provide you with a starting point?

RC

[neversay]

Thanks for all your replies. I have been gardening a few years but still consider myself an absolute novice and, yes, still confused between the art and science of gardening.

[dspp]

Gardening friends who are horsey types absolutely will not use horse manure on their garden until it has been composted for as long as possible. Their explanation was that horses have poor digestive systems and so most of the seeds go straight through. Basically they said you are putting concentrated weed seeds on the flower beds !

Composting to a high enough temperature kills off the seeds.

regards, dspp

[Charlottesquare]

Gardening friends who are horsey types absolutely will not use horse manure on their garden until it has been composted for as long as possible. Their explanation was that horses have poor digestive systems and so most of the seeds go straight through. Basically they said you are putting concentrated weed seeds on the flower beds !

Composting to a high enough temperature kills off the seeds.

regards, dspp

Agree, when I was young my father acquired some horse manure and applied it to the garden, the weed/similar crop was prolific and it was my painful job to weed the garden.

[UncleEbenezer]

Isn't that *precisely* the point of delicious fruits et al, from the plant's point of view?

Get eaten by someone who will deposit your seed somewhere else, with an extra bonus of manure to help it establish itself.

... and because different animals have different tastes, it's not just fruits and berries as we know and love them that can do that.

[neversay]

It sounds like I had better throw it in the compost bin!

Should I be using a compost accelerator/additive to kill the (potential) weeds in the process?

[Gengulphus]

It sounds like I had better throw it in the compost bin!

Should I be using a compost accelerator/additive to kill the (potential) weeds in the process?

What kills the weed seeds is the heat, so basically you want to get the compost to rot quickly enough to warm up to a considerable extent. A compost accelerator can help, but so can other things like:

* The shape and size of the compost heap / bin. Ideally, it's as big and as close to spherical in shape as reasonably possible (roughly a cube or a cylinder with the same height and width are reasonably close, and probably about as close as practically feasible), as that maximises the ratio of volume (throughout which heat is being generated by the rotting process) to surface area (through which heat escapes).

* Surrounding insulation that slows down heat escape - typically the plastic or wooden walls of a compost bin.

* How much new ready-to-rot material is added at once and how quickly rotting can get established in it. The one time I've managed to get my compost bin really visibly steaming was when I cut back a Buddleia that had been neglected for a few years and grown very big more-or-less to its base, put the resulting enormous pile of branches through a garden shredder and mostly filled a big compost bin with the shreddings. Large amount of rottable material plus cuts of cut surfaces for the rot to start on, all at once, resulted in a far greater amount of heat production than normal about a week later...

I also rather suspect that in the case of manure, it basically is a compost accelerator, containing lots of micro-organisms and nutrients that will kick-start the rotting process. So I rather doubt that a separate compost accelerator would add much.

I don't think I've ever come across a compost additive that is supposed to directly kill the weed seeds, rather than indirectly by accelerating the rotting process and thus heat production. If I were to come across one, I would treat it with great caution, suspecting that it would mean that not merely the production process, but also the end product was liable to kill seeds and plants...

Gengulphus

[neversay]

Thanks for the great advice @Gengulphus.

The accelerator/weedkiller I had heard about, but couldn't recall, was Ammonium Sulphamate (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Lancelot-Mistr ... eed+killer) which I had read about in regard to another problem I've got which is Field Horse Tail. It has mixed reviews though and notably says not UK approved as a herbicide.

[swill453]

Urine is supposed to be a good compost accelerator. The method, depending on your level of exhibitionism, could involve a bucket in the shed, or standing on top of the bin...

Scott.

[Breelander]

Also, it's only aerobic decomposition that generates sufficient heat, anaerobic bacteria don't. So make sure it's well broken up and plenty of air is mixed in. Also, it needs a source or carbon to add fuel to the fire.

The woody parts of Gengulpus' Buddleia would have performed both functions, keeping the structure open (even after shredding) and providing the carbon. The steaming mounds you see at stables are from sweeping out the stables, so they'll include lots of straw (and horse urine, so no need to provide your own ).

[Gengulphus]

... Also, it needs a source or carbon to add fuel to the fire.

If the heating goes that far, you've overdone it! ;-)

Gengulphus

[Breelander]

If the heating goes that far, you've overdone it! ;-)

It can happen...

A rare combination of events can cause a compost pile to catch fire...

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/compos ... -piles.htm

[Gengulphus]

It can happen...

A rare combination of events can cause a compost pile to catch fire...

https://www.gardeningknowhow.com/compos ... -piles.htm

Well, if it does, there might be a need to provide your own urine after all... ;-) Though take care!

Gengulphus