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Mary Queen of Scots

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zico
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Mary Queen of Scots

#194918

Postby zico » January 19th, 2019, 8:24 pm

2/10. Turgid period drama with Saoirse Ronan and Margot Robbie.

Lots of rustling of crisp packets, shifting on seats and phone-checking from a bored audience when I watched it.

This film takes the fascinating true-life story and rivalry of Mary and Elizabeth and manages to make it incomprehensible and dull. The story-telling is just dreadful, and even though I was very familiar with the story, I was constantly wondering “who are these men with beards, and how come they’ve got the upper hand?”. For people unfamiliar with the real story, this must have been completely baffling.

Film starts with a bit of narration – Mary Stuart, married to French King, widowed as a teenager, and we see her about to be executed in a flash-forward. Back a few years to her arriving in Scotland to be well, Queen of Scots, and also with a strong claim to the English throne which is going to vex Elizabeth I (actually, her claim was stronger than Elizabeth’s, but never mind). Elizabeth’s advisers want to compel Mary to marry a minor English nobleman who will keep her in check like husbands do in the 15th century. So far, so clear, but then the story goes all messy.

The director seems to think Scotland is actually an island off the coast of England, as we only ever see the characters arriving or leaving Scotland by being virtually shipwrecked in small open boats on a rocky beach, as this island of Scotland appears to have no harbours. It’s easy to distinguish English scenes from Scottish scenes, as Scottish castles are hacked out of rough stone, including the inside rooms and nobody, not even the queen, ever uses the main entrance. Meanwhile English castles have tapestries on the walls, bigger rooms, formal gardens, and feature boring scenes where nothing interesting ever happens.

The plot unfolds at a snail’s pace with Mary telling various men in black with black beards (also including black men in black with black beards) that she is the Queen and they should do as she say, which annoys John Knox (played apparently for laughs by David Tennant somewhere underneath a particularly long black beard and giant comic tam'o'shanter) who sees a chance to foment rebellion in a clear case of Opportunity Knox (sorry). Mary then goes for various strolls in the heather in scenic highland glens where it never rains while wearing her best frocks, and giggles a lot with her French ladies. There’s slightly more oral sex and cross-dressing than I’d have expected from 15th century Scotland, and also a surprising amount of eyeliner on Mary’s brother which at least helps to distinguish him from all the other blokes.

Mary then somewhat rashly decides to marry a minor English noble with a ginger beard (a sure sign of character weakness in this blackbeard court). She wants to produce an heir who will be the one true ruler of Scotland and England. This annoys Elizabeth and incites the English to foment a Scottish civil war, where Mary’s men with beards defeat the other men with beards. Then there are some stabbings, and other men with beards seize control before we are suddenly told Mary have outwitted them in conjunction with other men with beards, before those men with beards outwit her, and are then themselves deposed by different men with beards, or maybe the earlier group of men in beards who’ve come back for another bash.

Meanwhile in England, Elizabeth I (Margot Robbie) does some sewing to make a seat headcover, doesn’t like the colour of the poppies, so sets to work to make a bedspread cover with poppies, which must be symbolic of something. She also shoves a cushion up her jumper and admires her silhouette – I get this symbolism at least.

Anyhow, the upshot of this all Mary's up and downs (mostly downs, to be fair) is that Mary has to abdicate and then go to Scotland’s only beach and get in an open boat to seek refuge in England, where she goes to a big ramshackle barn for a secret meeting with Elizabeth, who is accompanied by Madame Butterfly as her main courtier. For this scene, poor Margot Robbie is made up to look like a cross between the Joker and the Queen from Alice in Wonderland. Elizabeth and Mary wander around in an interior full of net curtains trying to find each other, then Mary asks for an army, then sanctuary, then insults Elizabeth a lot, before somewhat hopefully asking her not to execute her in the future. Well, that went downhill fast. Lame Ernie Wise-style dialogue along the lines of “you have not got beauty like what I have got”.

Just as I was bracing myself for another hour of Mary's plotting in England and captivity in various castles, it's like even the director is now bored so, praise the lord, it’s fast-forward straight onto the execution scene (again) and it’s finally all over.

Saiorse Ronan is miscast as Mary, while Margot Robbie is totally wasted in this mish-mash. Of course, neither of them look anything like the real Elizabeth and Mary (Glenda Jackson and Vanessa Redgrave).

todthedog
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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#194994

Postby todthedog » January 20th, 2019, 11:28 am

Thanks for that Zico you have just saved me the price of admission.
It always surprises me when you have a fascinating period of history why does it have to be completely faked up. I'm fine about portrayed but Churchill holding a plebicite on a tube, Elizabeth meeting Mary, just why?
I admit to being a grumpy old *art have no beard :D and have been barred from sighing or tutting when going to the flics with my wife.
Mark Kermode likes this film so another reason for not going. We have a 'charming' usage bet on his film review.

zico
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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195018

Postby zico » January 20th, 2019, 12:42 pm

Thanks for that Zico you have just saved me the price of admission.


Thanks - mission accomplished!

The Glenda Jackson/Vanessa Redgrave 1971 film of the same name was a lot better, and Mrs. Zico (a history buff) says that the story is told even better in Elizabeth R.

After seeing the film, I watched Film Review last night, featuring Mark Kermode's review of this film, and I actually disagreed with every single opinion he had on the film, in particular when he said it was a witty script. In what way was it witty Mark? I'm getting to know what does and doesn't impress Mark in a film. He came out with a pearler when he was reviewing "Glass", saying it was the director's best film since "Signs". Signs???? An absolutely terrible alien crop circles film with Mel Gibson.

We have a 'charming' usage bet on his film review.


Sounds interesting - what's this about?

todthedog
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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195043

Postby todthedog » January 20th, 2019, 2:04 pm

Before the start of the film review we try and guess the number of times Kermode uses 'charming' or derivative to describe a film.

Everyone has a different view but as rule of thumb if he raves about it be very sceptical. :D
I think he likes to show off on the number of films he has seen.
Still miss Barry Norman (showing my age) who seemed to watch the same film as me.

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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195125

Postby AF62 » January 20th, 2019, 8:37 pm

zico wrote:also including black men in black with black beards


I thought that was one of the few interesting things in this film. There was no silly attempt at historical justification, it was just a straightforward colour blind casting.

zico wrote:Just as I was bracing myself for another hour of Mary's plotting in England and captivity in various castles, it's like even the director is now bored so, praise the lord, it’s fast-forward straight onto the execution scene (again) and it’s finally all over.


I wondered how on earth they were going to cover that part of the story, so was also surprised at the 'bored now, here is how it finishes' ending.

Overall I enjoyed the film more than you did, but it wasn't great.

zico
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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195163

Postby zico » January 20th, 2019, 11:34 pm

I just watched the 1971 version with Glenda Jackson and Vanessa Redgrave on TV, and it really does knock spots off the newer version.
The look of the film isn't as good, but it tells the story properly so you understand who's who and what's what (including Rizzio being a spy for the Pope), there's a good introduction with Mary enjoying halcyon days by the Loire with her husband, which contrasts with rough Scots noblemen. Glenda has a real temper as Elizabeth, and Vanessa portrays the intelligence but naivety of a young queen, who was only 24 years old when she was forced to abdicate.

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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195196

Postby Howyoudoin » January 21st, 2019, 9:35 am

zico wrote:I'm getting to know what does and doesn't impress Mark in a film. He came out with a pearler when he was reviewing "Glass", saying it was the director's best film since "Signs". Signs???? An absolutely terrible alien crop circles film with Mel Gibson.



Eeek. Don't diss Signs! I absolutely love that film. Happy to side with Mr Kermode on this one.


HYD

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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195504

Postby TahiPanasDua » January 22nd, 2019, 10:32 am

Annoying as the historical liberties taken in MQoS undoubtedly are, they don't sound quite on the same scale as the historical bunkum of much of Braveheart, for example. I have given up watching such movies as I often get upset.

However, as we all know, historical porkies are not restricted to fantasist film makers.

In my 1950s Scottish school I was fed a diet of similar nonsense presented as fact. Mary Queen of Scots was portrayed as a saintly national heroine, an innocent victim with almost no mention of her near unbroken record of unwise and ultimately fatal emotional decision making. Elizabeth, on the other hand and with the misfortune of being English, was cast as The Evil One rather than as an example of how a young queen might, with some guile, survive in a hostile environment.

Incredibly, we were invited to believe that really the English defeated the Scots at the battle of Culloden.

The Highland Clearances were instigated by mainly English absentee landowners and there was no mention of the much greater Lowland Clearances.

Sounds like I went to a school run by an extreme wing of the SNP but it was well respected for it's academic record.

Hope I haven't upset too many people.

TP2.

zico
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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195546

Postby zico » January 22nd, 2019, 12:44 pm

Thanks for your post, Tahi - it's fascinating to hear how history was actually distorted in the classroom - the very place you'd expect to get your facts from!

Mary Queen of Scots was portrayed as a saintly national heroine, an innocent victim with almost no mention of her near unbroken record of unwise and ultimately fatal emotional decision making. Elizabeth, on the other hand and with the misfortune of being English, was cast as The Evil One rather than as an example of how a young queen might, with some guile, survive in a hostile environment.


I completely agree with your view of the 2 queens. Mary was dealt a tricky hand being sent to be a catholic Queen of Scotland over Protestant lords, but then Elizabeth faced much greater dangers at an even younger age, including being sent to the Tower.

Apart from the ineptness of the story-telling in this film, it also gives the impressions that both Queens were pretty much at the mercy of the men, including a scene where Elizabeth tells Cecil "just sort it out and don't get me involved". As for Mary, the film portrays her as a smart person when things go well for her, but as a powerless victim when things go badly for her, giving the impression that she was doomed to failure no matter what.

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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195553

Postby todthedog » January 22nd, 2019, 1:03 pm

Amazing that the history taught in schools was just plain wrong. So much reflecting the social mores at the time or even deliberate lies 'lions led by donkeys' as an example.
Brave Heart was actually the film that Mrs T insisted on the on the no spluttering or sighing rule.
Sometimes it is hard to go with the flow and think it is only a film for entertainment not education.
Try U571 is you fancy a rant :D

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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195561

Postby Howyoudoin » January 22nd, 2019, 1:21 pm

todthedog wrote:Amazing that the history taught in schools was just plain wrong.


Interesting article here:

Mary Queen of Scots: don’t worry about movie accuracy, historians can’t agree on who she really was either

https://theconversation.com/mary-queen- ... her-109993


HYD

PinkDalek
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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195750

Postby PinkDalek » January 23rd, 2019, 12:29 am

todthedog wrote:Brave Heart was actually the film that Mrs T insisted on the on the no spluttering or sighing rule.


Would you mind explaining that sentence, please? Are you saying Mrs T was aghast at the inaccuracies?

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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195757

Postby todthedog » January 23rd, 2019, 7:10 am

PD
MrsT objects if I sigh, herumph, or make any near silent sounds of objection whilst sitting next to her in the cinema. An understandable position, as a grumpy old fool I would not wish to destroy the ambiance of any other film watcher. I had always thought this was audible to me alone, I have been accused of silent seething, my personal favourite. :D

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Re: Mary Queen of Scots

#195790

Postby PinkDalek » January 23rd, 2019, 10:19 am

Got it, thanks. I was thinking of another Mrs T and hadn't spotted your user name!


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