Who is sovereign now?

[Eboli]

I noted that the Speaker gave permission for Hunt to address the money markets at 11.00 am today in advance of Parliament. This raises the question of who is now sovereign. Is it the money markets or perhaps the BoE rather than Parliament?

Eb.

[tjh290633]

When there has been a coup it is usually a general who addresses the nation. The previous powers are kept well hidden. I see a pattern here, even if not exactly similar.

TJH

[Nemo]

I'll tell you, it's:

Blackrock
J P Morgan
Goldman Sachs
Citygroup
Well Fargo
Bank of America
..and a few more that I can't remember

[dealtn]

I noted that the Speaker gave permission for Hunt to address the money markets at 11.00 am today in advance of Parliament. This raises the question of who is now sovereign. Is it the money markets or perhaps the BoE rather than Parliament?

Eb.

No

[Hallucigenia]

This raises the question of who is now sovereign. Is it the money markets or perhaps the BoE rather than Parliament?

Well we're back to James Carville's line about wanting to be reincarnated as the bond markets, as then you can intimidate everyone.

I think the question is misplaced, as the nature of sovereignty is different in an interconnected world, the actions of even a "pure" sovereign (Putin?) in the modern world is constrained by the environment in which they find themselves.

Also there is an idea among some people that sovereignty is there to be hoarded, the more sovereignty you have the better. But in fact it's to be spent, to the advancement of one's people. So for instance, we have given up the sovereign right to make chemical weapons, as part of negotiations for other countries to give up chemical weapons, because it makes the world a safer place for our people. The same applies in all sorts of other ways - trade negotiations etc.

[1nvest]

Also there is an idea among some people that sovereignty is there to be hoarded, the more sovereignty you have the better. But in fact it's to be spent, to the advancement of one's people. So for instance, we have given up the sovereign right to make chemical weapons, as part of negotiations for other countries to give up chemical weapons, because it makes the world a safer place for our people. The same applies in all sorts of other ways - trade negotiations etc.

Only if all encompassing. Russia has continued developing nuke/bio/chemical weapons leading to increased confidence of it imposing its sovereignty upon others. Once 'up there' on the chemical weapon scale, the more recent deployment of chemical weapons within the UK left us in relatively dark-ages. The US is playing catch-up on the hyper-sonic missiles front. Part of development of such weapons is the development of counter-defence methods. If you give up development of both but others don't then that makes it less safe for our people.

[1nvest]

LT/KK were the executors of sovereignty, but the (likely intended) market reaction/declines were used as the means to relieve them of that rather than giving them the few months before revelation of their plan that they asked for.

Why did KK say he'd report the books in late November? Pretty much a indicator IMO that what happened in the markets was intended. Falling Pound, rising interest rates to restore positive real yields and revert to more 2% inflation 4% type nominal yields where interest rate adjustments can be used as a economy steering tool, lower taxes to encourage expansion of the 1% who pay a third of the income tax take being doubled up or even trebled.

[Hallucigenia]

Part of development of such weapons is the development of counter-defence methods. If you give up development of both but others don't then that makes it less safe for our people.

Who said that we give up counter-defence methods? What do you think Porton Down is doing?

Anyway, that's all irrelevant to my point, is that the "sovereignty to make chemical weapons" is an example of something to trade - in the same way as eg sovereignty over student visa quotas is something to trade in negotiations with India when we want them to allow in more Scotch whisky.

The idea of hoarding sovereignty is from another age.

[1nvest]

Truss' error was in not targeting the core cause of high/rising energy prices. Which are the root cause of high/rising inflation.

Permitting gas extracted from within UK territory to be directed into the global commodity market is of zero benefit to the UK. Will be the same for wind farm electricity ... etc. Of NO benefit to the UK - as UK consumers will still be paying the exact same price as other countries who have no energy "self sufficiency" of their own.

Pointless spending billions on wind farms, nuclear power stations, oil/gas extraction as they're just costs with no (other than standard tax revenue) benefit.

Better would have been to set up a UK commodity market where UK produced energy had to be sold within that first and limited to just UK customer purchasing, before surpluses being exported into the global commodity market. Then there would be massive benefits of greater energy self sufficiency. Lower domestic energy prices is a distinct advantage, and have knock on beneficial effects such as lower inflation faster growth etc.

Energy firms would not like such UK regulation limiting their profitability, but by agreement could still be rewarding enough to attract such firms. Still modest/reasonable rewards, rather than extreme exceptional rewards as they're currently making.

[1nvest]

Part of development of such weapons is the development of counter-defence methods. If you give up development of both but others don't then that makes it less safe for our people.

Who said that we give up counter-defence methods? What do you think Porton Down is doing?

Anyway, that's all irrelevant to my point, is that the "sovereignty to make chemical weapons" is an example of something to trade - in the same way as eg sovereignty over student visa quotas is something to trade in negotiations with India when we want them to allow in more Scotch whisky.

The idea of hoarding sovereignty is from another age.

Totally gifting sovereignty away is also bad. As is it to permit it to be seized away by back-stabbers with their own ulterior motives.

LT should not have sacked KK but instead got him to reveal his cunning plan originally, by design, scheduled to be unveiled in later November but then under pressure moved to lave October, to instead have him reveal it immediately rather than sacking him. That would have had the cost of (considerably) diluting down the intended benefits, but at least would have had the Tories still in the driving seat rather than the coup situation we're now in.

[Nemo]

Here are the people who are now running the country's finances:


Rupert Harrison, BlackRock
Gertjan Vlieghe, Element Capital
Sushil Wadhwani, PGIM Wadhwani
Karen Ward, J. P. Morgan Asset Management

Rupert Harrison was advisor the Osbourne and invented the five year plan to balance the UK's books (didn't work). As far as i am aware the above will still keep their jobs and now that bankers' bonuses and not capped watch for fireworks

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/gove ... ry-council

[1nvest]

There's been a coup, the driver behind such being unknown, but where the replacement government has no mandate and is preparing for the likes of the ending of pensioners triple lock a.k.a a raid the elderly/weak/infirm. Vile. But at least we know who is their front man ... Hunt.

[forrado]

While she didn't say it first, Maggie Thatcher certainly said it the loudest "YOU CAN'T BUCK THE MARKET". That's even truer today for GB Inc. than it was when the Iron Lady was in her prime. In the league of global financial markets, the UK has long been playing in the second division. To stretch a footballing metaphor a bit further ... little Norwich City are just not afforded the same level of deference and due regard as say the powerhouses that are Real Madrid and Manchester City. Brutal as it is for a sovereign nation that was once also a powerhouse, that's how pecking orders operate - no matter how we wish it otherwise.

[Lootman]

While she didn't say it first, Maggie Thatcher certainly said it the loudest "YOU CAN'T BUCK THE MARKET". That's even truer today for GB Inc. than it was when the Iron Lady was in her prime. In the league of global financial markets, the UK has long been playing in the second division. To stretch a footballing metaphor a bit further ... little Norwich City are just not afforded the same level of deference and due regard as say the powerhouses that are Real Madrid and Manchester City. Brutal as it is for a sovereign nation that was once also a powerhouse, that's how pecking orders operate - no matter how we wish it otherwise.

Even the mighty US has accepted that it is subject to the market, hence the earlier reference to wanting to be resurrected as the bond market.

And those of us bitching that we lost the Truss tax cuts because of market reaction, were also grateful that the markets would have severely punished a Corbyn premiership had that ever happened.

Even so, if there is really only one boring and middling course of action that the markets will allow us then where does that leave us? No interesting ideological and transformative governments like Atlee and Thatcher any more?

We might as well be governed by the LibDems forever, with all the mediocrity that that implies.

[Gilgongo]

Whats also interesting about markets today is that things are getting pretty weird in terms of the power dynamics within them. I thought this was an interesting read on the subject, and how a form of command economy is taking over in the form "asset manager capitalism"

[XFool]

Even the mighty US has accepted that it is subject to the market, hence the earlier reference to wanting to be resurrected as the bond market.

And those of us bitching that we lost the Truss tax cuts because of market reaction, were also grateful that the markets would have severely punished a Corbyn premiership had that ever happened.

"There you go again!"

Let it go! (After all: It never happened)

[XFool]

Whats also interesting about markets today is that things are getting pretty weird in terms of the power dynamics within them. I thought this was an interesting read on the subject, and how a form of command economy is taking over in the form "asset manager capitalism"

Interesting site!

I found this particularly disturbing: https://chinwag.pluralistic.net/t/pluralistic-01-oct-2022-how-palantir-will-steal-the-nhs/663

[1nvest]

Whats also interesting about markets today is that things are getting pretty weird in terms of the power dynamics within them. I thought this was an interesting read on the subject, and how a form of command economy is taking over in the form "asset manager capitalism"

In the US, the 1% owns 35% of the total wealth, but they own 50% of the shares in companies and funds. The top 10% owns 86% of the shares in companies and funds.
.
.
three giant index funds: Blackrock, Vanguard and State Street
.
.
When three index managers plan the economy on behalf of the 50% who own any shares (or, more realistically, on the 10% who own 86% of the shares), they leave the rest of us in the cold. Braun suggests that the Big Three "should be expected to push the economy towards the lowest sustainable labor share." And yeah, the rise of wage stagnation tracks the growth of index funds.

[Nemo]

There's been a coup, the driver behind such being unknown, but where the replacement government has no mandate and is preparing for the likes of the ending of pensioners triple lock a.k.a a raid the elderly/weak/infirm. Vile. But at least we know who is their front man ... Hunt.

Hunt's wife is on the CCP's payroll:

The wife of former Cabinet Minister Jeremy Hunt presents a TV show for China’s state-run media that has been accused of ‘whitewashing’ the Communist Party’s human rights abuses.

Lucia Guo, who has three children with the former Health Secretary and Foreign Secretary, appears on China Hour, a series broadcast on Sky TV that showcases Chinese culture to a UK audience.

It is made by the state-owned China International TV Corporation and British-based Dove Media, in partnership with the Communist regime’s tourist office in London.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... abuse.html

I hope that he never become PM!

[daveh]

There's been a coup, the driver behind such being unknown, but where the replacement government has no mandate and is preparing for the likes of the ending of pensioners triple lock a.k.a a raid the elderly/weak/infirm. Vile. But at least we know who is their front man ... Hunt.

Hunt's wife is on the CCP's payroll:

The wife of former Cabinet Minister Jeremy Hunt presents a TV show for China’s state-run media that has been accused of ‘whitewashing’ the Communist Party’s human rights abuses.

Lucia Guo, who has three children with the former Health Secretary and Foreign Secretary, appears on China Hour, a series broadcast on Sky TV that showcases Chinese culture to a UK audience.

It is made by the state-owned China International TV Corporation and British-based Dove Media, in partnership with the Communist regime’s tourist office in London.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... abuse.html

I hope that he never become PM!

Well we are getting a new one next week, so who knows.