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Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 19th, 2023, 10:19 pm
by Lootman
MrFoolish wrote:Lootman wrote:OK then tell us the last time (month and year) that you advocated for lower taxes on higher earners? This should be good.
Get real Lootman. We've had 13 years of a Tory government that has favoured higher earners. Perhaps I've got a dusty old diary up in my loft I can dig out for you...
OK, so basically never? Got it.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 19th, 2023, 10:21 pm
by Nimrod103
MrFoolish wrote:Lootman wrote:OK then tell us the last time (month and year) that you advocated for lower taxes on higher earners? This should be good.
Get real Lootman. We've had 13 years of a Tory government that has favoured higher earners. Perhaps I've got a dusty old diary up in my loft I can dig out for you...
I thought the highest rates of income tax were lower under Tony Blair than during the 13 years of Tory/LibDem and Tory governments.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 19th, 2023, 10:28 pm
by MrFoolish
Lootman wrote:MrFoolish wrote:Get real Lootman. We've had 13 years of a Tory government that has favoured higher earners. Perhaps I've got a dusty old diary up in my loft I can dig out for you...
OK, so basically never? Got it.
Yes well these last 13 years certainly feels like forever.
I was reasonably content under Blair. He managed to look after the poorer end of society whilst not attacking wealthy people or business. Not everything was perfect but at least we didn't have the horrible polarisation of society we have now.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 19th, 2023, 10:40 pm
by Lootman
MrFoolish wrote:Lootman wrote:OK, so basically never? Got it.
Yes well these last 13 years certainly feels like forever.
I was reasonably content under Blair. He managed to look after the poorer end of society whilst not attacking wealthy people or business. Not everything was perfect but at least we didn't have the horrible polarisation of society we have now.
The only alleged "polarisation" I see is coming from you.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 19th, 2023, 10:40 pm
by Nimrod103
MrFoolish wrote:Lootman wrote:OK, so basically never? Got it.
Yes well these last 13 years certainly feels like forever.
I was reasonably content under Blair. He managed to look after the poorer end of society whilst not attacking wealthy people or business. Not everything was perfect but at least we didn't have the horrible polarisation of society we have now.
But the polarization such as it is, is entirely related to house prices. They increased from £125,000 in 1996 to £330,000 in 2006 (real average prices, Nationwide figures). If Blair achieved anything during his tenure, putting houses beyond the reach of the young was the most divisive and long lasting.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 19th, 2023, 10:46 pm
by MrFoolish
Lootman wrote:The only alleged "polarisation" I see is coming from you.
I see you've descended from arguing the facts to making silly personal comments, so I'll leave it here.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 19th, 2023, 10:54 pm
by MrFoolish
Nimrod103 wrote:But the polarization such as it is, is entirely related to house prices. They increased from £125,000 in 1996 to £330,000 in 2006 (real average prices, Nationwide figures). If Blair achieved anything during his tenure, putting houses beyond the reach of the young was the most divisive and long lasting.
The figure I see from the land registry is £178,000 in 2006 so your figures don't seem right to me. But I'd agree not enough new houses were built under Blair.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 19th, 2023, 11:00 pm
by Nimrod103
MrFoolish wrote:Nimrod103 wrote:But the polarization such as it is, is entirely related to house prices. They increased from £125,000 in 1996 to £330,000 in 2006 (real average prices, Nationwide figures). If Blair achieved anything during his tenure, putting houses beyond the reach of the young was the most divisive and long lasting.
The figure I see from the land registry is £178,000 in 2006 so your figures don't seem right to me. But I'd agree not enough new houses were built under Blair.
https://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/indic ... inflation/
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 19th, 2023, 11:06 pm
by Lootman
MrFoolish wrote:Lootman wrote:The only alleged "polarisation" I see is coming from you.
I see you've descended from arguing the facts to making silly personal comments, so I'll leave it here.
No, you claimed some alleged "polarisation" and I see none.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 19th, 2023, 11:10 pm
by JohnB
IHT allowances for houses drive up their prices as it makes them a more valuable asset.
I had to smile about comments on taxes on wealth creators. IHT reduces the sums available to beneficiaries, who created none of the wealth...
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 19th, 2023, 11:14 pm
by Lootman
JohnB wrote:IHT allowances for houses drive up their prices as it makes them a more valuable asset.
Yes, the million NRB should be regardless of the type of asset.
But better to increase it to 5 or 10 milskys.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 20th, 2023, 12:00 am
by CliffEdge
IHT is an affront to capitalism.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 20th, 2023, 4:53 am
by MrFoolish
Perhaps you could have told us you went to "housepricecrash" for your rather questionable figures, rather than the Nationwide as you tried to imply.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 20th, 2023, 8:22 am
by Dod101
IHT tends to be a tax on the totally unearned capital gain from house prices and as such I cannot see what there is to complain about. It is not as if it takes great skill to see a big capital gain on housing. Why these gains should be totally tax free in life and in death is a bit of a mystery to me.
Dod
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 20th, 2023, 8:32 am
by swill453
According to Robert Peston there is zero chance of a cut in IHT being announced this week.
https://twitter.com/Peston/status/1726304375776202832Scott.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 20th, 2023, 9:24 am
by Gerry557
JohnB wrote:IHT allowances for houses drive up their prices as it makes them a more valuable asset.
I had to smile about comments on taxes on wealth creators. IHT reduces the sums available to beneficiaries, who created none of the wealth...
At the point of gaining the inheritance maybe but then. They might use it to start up a business or to go to higher education and get a better job that pays more tax.
Even if they waste it on booze and fancy cars there is vat.
There is a bigger picture and I wonder what that is over the longer term. Even stopping them from having to claim benefits or get them off the council house waiting lists. It not all negative.
I don't like the idea of that tax although I have no plans to pay it. Ts more likely that the care home tax or a series of world cruises, better and cheaper care will get me.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 20th, 2023, 10:05 am
by Nimrod103
MrFoolish wrote:Perhaps you could have told us you went to "housepricecrash" for your rather questionable figures, rather than the Nationwide as you tried to imply.
Wherever you go, the graph has the same shape with very similar values. Absolute values just differ slightly I presume because of different inflation adjustments used.
https://www.economicshelp.org/blog/5709/housing/market/https://www.nationwidehousepriceindex.c ... kf61-wbx2ihttps://www.nationwidehousepriceindex.c ... -pressuresI like the price/earnings ratio graph in the last reference, which goes from 2.1 in 1996 to 5.5 in 2007. There exactly is the reason for anger among the young and the polarization of society.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 20th, 2023, 10:22 am
by Nimrod103
I have complete faith that Hunt will seize defeat from the jaws of victory.
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 20th, 2023, 11:54 am
by stevensfo
Nimrod103 wrote:I have complete faith that Hunt will seize defeat from the jaws of victory.
It's not just the tax itself. It's the paperwork, the waiting and sense of injustice.
If the IHT is not reduced or allowance not made greater, then I reckon it will be down to a realisation that they won't win the next election, so best pass the buck.
Then they'll be in opposition and the tabloids full of outrage and horror at Labour not reducing IHT....etc...etc.
Steve
Re: IHT changes on the way?
Posted: November 20th, 2023, 12:01 pm
by Dod101
Nimrod103 wrote:I have complete faith that Hunt will seize defeat from the jaws of victory.
What nonsense. No victory in cutting the tax for IHT. As Preston says, it would add nothing to encourage growth and that above all is what we need now.
Obviously I would prefer that we did not tax estates but it is a fairly modest tax anyway. Hunt needs to encourage businesses to invest more in growth to build for the future.
Dod