Wizard wrote: johnhemming wrote:
BobbyD wrote:I would have hoped the same was true for you.
Because they occupy an overlapping section of ideological ground with the LIb Dems I welcomed their original establishment. I did not, however, expect them to be stupid enough to fight elections without some form of electoral agreement. Even though the European Elections use a form of PR standing separately still causes damage to the particular cause of remaining in the EU.
Their motivation for this cannot be other than self-interest and their leaked strategy was not sensible. Politics is replete with the conflict between self interest and the public interest. Trump, for example, is a good example of where self-interest dominates.
There are wider questions as to how political parties should operate.
We will see where this goes. In the end the creation of the SDP as a separate party was a mistake because even though they had an alliance with the Lib Dems the organisational conflict undermined the over all alliance. It may be that the shambles that has been the tigger campaign will have the positive effect of them shutting down as a separate party and some if not all of them joining the lib dems.
I suspect at least some, if not all, the CUK MPs thought that once they appeared on the scene they would draw the majority of LibDem voters to support them as they thought the legacy of the coalition would mean those voters liked the idea of a clean slate. Of course the slate isn't clean, CUK may have no legacy but the MPs that formed it have and that can be examined. The switch from LibDems to CUK has not happened and I imagine CUK are both surprised and frustrated by that. For the EU elections I think the die is cast on the Remain side, people will vote Lib Dem or Green, very few will vote CUK. In the end they may not have much of a negative impact on the other Remain parties as their vote may end up being very low.
On the point of membership versus supporters I do have some sympathy with their position. A party can start bottom up, in which case building a membership is key. But CUK has started top down, so I can see why they may say "this is what we stand for, support us if you agree". Whether that is sustainable long term for a top down formed party is another matter, but as short term expediency it is understandable.
But then I personally do not see anything but a short term for CUK. I personally expect them to limp on after a shocking performance in the EU elections trying to claim relevance and using the fact they have MPs to get a disproportionate amount of media 'air time' relative to their support in the country. Then at the next General Election they will all be voted out of Parliament and CUK will fold.
Why would the Lib Dems move to Change?
Maybe the new way is to believe that all you need to do is build it and they will come, a party with a website and no depth, maybe you CGI in the adoring masses at your Conference, but actually not so, the Lib Dems have structure, organisation and foot soldiers re leaflets etc, Change have an idea, some MPs so loads of chiefs but few Indians, there is no strength in depth ,which is a tough way to endure.
Whilst politics may more and more be being led by the 30 second soundbite on TV or the staged media event, there is a lot to be said for the grassroots support underpinning the first team, delivering the leaflets, getting boards up at the polling stations et al.
To be transparent on here, about a week ago I joined the Lib Dems as a party member. I did consider Change re my support but having thought through the question, including numbers of grassroots activists, there was no real choice for me as to which was the better Remain pick.
A former mainly Conservative voter may be a strange bedfellow into the Lib Dems in some ways but Change appear, to me at least, to have little of substance . Anyway I did flirt with the Libs/SDP in the 1980s before later financial progress in life seduced me to the Conservatives,I even went to listen to David Steel I think circa 1981/1982 when I was at Edinburgh University, a week or so after his, "Go back to your constituencies and prepare for government speech, so maybe the Lib Dems are nearer my heart and in the past the Conservatives were nearer my head.