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Galileo and Brexit

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dspp
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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#141225

Postby dspp » May 25th, 2018, 12:40 pm

BobbyD wrote:HM Government TECHNICAL NOTE: UK PARTICIPATION IN GALILEO

- https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ALILEO.pdf

The usual Brexitsplaining about why it is in the EU's best interest to give the UK exactly what it wants rather than what it thinks is in its best interests, but this is golden:

15. Thirdly, the Commission’s suggestion that UK involvement in such exchanges and
discussions “could irretrievably compromise the integrity” of the system risks being
interpreted as a lack of trust in the United Kingdom.3 S


That they could publish that, and still not realise the irreparable damage they are doing tot he UK's reputation in international circles really does beggar belief.


Reading that I see:

"Immediate and Implementation Period
31. To avoid precluding UK participation in Galileo and EGNOS prior to or during discussions
on a future partnership, the following measures should be taken and maintained while
negotiations run their course:
a. Re-open the tenders for the Ground Mission Segment and the recently launched
Invitations to Tender for the Batch 4 transition satellites;
b. Make a clear declaration that UK industry is able to bid for all contracts including
those relating to security and PRS;
c. Permit UK officials, nationals and industry to participate in meetings relating to
security and PRS;
d. Provide explicit assurance that Article 122.7b in the draft Withdrawal Agreement
relating to ‘security-related sensitive information’ shall not be applicable to the
exclusion of the UK in relation to Galileo and EGNOS in the implementation period;7
e. Flowing from this, provide revised direction to the European Space Agency (ESA)
that UK industry will not need to move delivery of their contracts to Europe by March
2019; and,
f. Provide legal assurance (by way of amending contracts or providing waivers) to
ensure that UK industry will not be regarded as non-compliant to existing
‘participation conditions’ in Galileo and EGNOS contracts which currently restrict
work to EU nationals and companies based in the EU."


........ which prompts the thought "which bit of Brexit means Brexit, does May et al not understand"

regards, dspp

BobbyD
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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#141266

Postby BobbyD » May 25th, 2018, 2:40 pm

dspp wrote:........ which prompts the thought "which bit of Brexit means Brexit, does May et al not understand"

regards, dspp


The EU is vindictively respecting the UK government's wishes...

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144032

Postby ursaminortaur » June 6th, 2018, 1:06 am

The EU has neutralised the UK's threat to hold up procurement of the next batch of Galileo satellites.


https://www.ft.com/content/8b37b0ea-68d6-11e8-8cf3-0c230fa67aec


The EU has neutralised a UK threat to obstruct procurement of new satellites for its €10bn Galileo navigation system, the focus of a bitter row between London and Brussels over access to its military grade service.The European Space Agency is expected on June 13 to give the go-ahead to procuring the next batch of satellites after Brussels agreed to assume all liabilities that ESA would normally incur by taking on the contract, according to several European and UK officials close to the subject. This means the agency does not need a unanimous vote to press ahead with the Galileo programme, but only a simple majority. The EU’s tactical manoeuvre means that there is no longer a need to discuss a three-month freeze on Galileo procurement, a key demand from the UK in its Brexit negotiations.

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144033

Postby BobbyD » June 6th, 2018, 1:35 am

dspp wrote: ........ which prompts the thought "which bit of Brexit means Brexit, does May et al not understand"

regards, dspp



May wants all the cake, twice, and none of the calories.

It's quite amusing how some Brexit means Brexit no ifs no buts merchants are now accusing the EU of treating us like a third party nation. Be careful what you wish for...

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144065

Postby dspp » June 6th, 2018, 9:22 am

Elsewhere I see "UK military secondments to EU to cease after Brexit: Setback for London in search for continuing military and defence co-operation" as an FT headline. Anyone who thinks that the UK's behaviour is not already creating defence & security issues is sadly mistaken.
- dspp

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144175

Postby DiamondEcho » June 6th, 2018, 5:03 pm

'You'd almost think the FT was rabidly pro-EU and always has been', oh hang on...

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144303

Postby dspp » June 7th, 2018, 2:18 pm

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/b ... ion_en.pdf

Translated this is the EU taking a firmer grip of the European space programme, such that non-EU countries that contribute to it cannot in any way derail it. In plainspeke that is the EU increasing its sovereignty, and in this case it is also the EU decreasing the sovereignty of the non-EU contributor countries.

Guess which EU country is making a horlicks of becoming a non-EU country in the pursuit of the unicorns of increased sovereignty ?

- dspp

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144307

Postby XFool » June 7th, 2018, 2:35 pm

DiamondEcho wrote:'You'd almost think the FT was rabidly pro-EU and always has been', oh hang on...

Translation: "The FT is not, and never has been, rabidly anti-EU."?

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144348

Postby Tymeric » June 7th, 2018, 6:08 pm

I take it Galileo no longer needs sensor stations on Ascension and the Falklands and possibly Diego Garcia after all......?

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144368

Postby dspp » June 7th, 2018, 9:15 pm

Need, no. Desirable, yes. Do other options exist, partially and/or perhaps and/or at a cost.

regards, dspp

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144370

Postby Tymeric » June 7th, 2018, 9:22 pm

Need, no.

If you don't mind a few blind spots

Desirable, yes.

Obviously

Do other options exist, partially and/or perhaps and/or at a cost.

I'll take that as "you don't know"...

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144374

Postby Spet0789 » June 7th, 2018, 9:37 pm

Tymeric wrote:I take it Galileo no longer needs sensor stations on Ascension and the Falklands and possibly Diego Garcia after all......?


I would assume that the EU27 have recognised that if the U.K. is not part of the programme they probably won’t be able to use those locations.

Could it possibly be that we need them more than they need us?

Surely not.

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144380

Postby dspp » June 7th, 2018, 9:54 pm

Tymeric wrote:
Do other options exist, partially and/or perhaps and/or at a cost.

I'll take that as "you don't know"...


You can take it how you like. All things are possible, options do exist. It depends how important the various issues are to be solved and/or what level of risk is acceptable (because it can never be eliminated), and what is the cost/benefit view of the payer.

regards, dspp

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144381

Postby Tymeric » June 7th, 2018, 10:02 pm

Could it possibly be that we need them more than they need us?

Surely not.


:lol: :lol:

Of course...there is absolutely no alternative to Galileo...which isn't even fully operational until 2020 (assuming they agree on the sensor stations plus Swanwick etc)

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144383

Postby Spet0789 » June 7th, 2018, 10:18 pm

Tymeric wrote:Could it possibly be that we need them more than they need us?

Surely not.


:lol: :lol:

Of course...there is absolutely no alternative to Galileo...which isn't even fully operational until 2020 (assuming they agree on the sensor stations plus Swanwick etc)


???

2020 is only 18 months away.

We liked the idea of participating enough to spend 1.5bn on it.

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#145773

Postby dspp » June 15th, 2018, 10:39 am

"It's official: the UK is going to be booted off the Galileo satellite GPS program as a result of Brexit, despite furious protestations from Britain that it's a special case. The decision was reached by all 27 member states of Europe at a meeting on Tuesday and was confirmed in a slide deck [PDF] released on Wednesday."

etc at El Reg https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/13/eu_uk_galileo/

over a barrel, eh ?

- dspp

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#145891

Postby DiamondEcho » June 15th, 2018, 3:52 pm

Let's hope the rEU don't want any software updates, or er coverage of the South Atlantic, etc. Or I reckon we'd have them over a barrel, as they say.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ALILEO.pdf

dspp
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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#149698

Postby dspp » July 3rd, 2018, 1:56 pm

Consequences, consequences .......

Spain will host the headquarters of the EU’s counter-piracy Operation ‘Atalanta’ off the Horn of Africa in Rota, the Spanish defence minister has announced.

Since it began in December 2008, Operation ‘Atalanta’ has been commanded by a UK-led operational headquarters (OHQ) co-located with the Permanent Joint Headquarters in Northwood, London.

The decision to move the headquarters by EU foreign and defence ministers meeting in Luxembourg at the end of June must be formalised by the Council of the EU meeting in Brussels in July, according to the Spanish Ministry of Defence (MoD).

Robles said at the end of June that the new location of the EUNAVFOR headquarters had previously been agreed by Spain, France, and Italy.


http://www.janes.com/article/81488/spai ... adquarters

(note to Mods this snippet is the OK to quote bit from Janes)

regards, dspp

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#155671

Postby Itsallaguess » July 27th, 2018, 7:41 pm

British police and armed forces could be guaranteed uninterrupted access to the encrypted signal of the European Union’s Galileo satellite system, it has emerged, as Brussels negotiators consider a unique deal for the UK on the project after Brexit.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, is mulling an offer on the satellite project that would put the UK on better terms than other third-party countries over use of the encrypted service, according to diplomatic sources.

The plans, which are still on the drawing board, suggest a bit more flexibility than Barnier’s public position that the UK would be treated like any other non-EU country.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ter-brexit

Negotiations still seem to be ongoing, and of course nothing is guaranteed, but it's interesting to see a change of approach to what many think is an EU that absolutely refuses to budge on their approach to these issues.....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#155716

Postby ap8889 » July 27th, 2018, 9:46 pm

Galileo is a pork barrel project that we can well live without.

Let them have their pork and eat it.


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