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Galileo and Brexit

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Spet0789
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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#144383

Postby Spet0789 » June 7th, 2018, 10:18 pm

Tymeric wrote:Could it possibly be that we need them more than they need us?

Surely not.


:lol: :lol:

Of course...there is absolutely no alternative to Galileo...which isn't even fully operational until 2020 (assuming they agree on the sensor stations plus Swanwick etc)


???

2020 is only 18 months away.

We liked the idea of participating enough to spend 1.5bn on it.

dspp
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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#145773

Postby dspp » June 15th, 2018, 10:39 am

"It's official: the UK is going to be booted off the Galileo satellite GPS program as a result of Brexit, despite furious protestations from Britain that it's a special case. The decision was reached by all 27 member states of Europe at a meeting on Tuesday and was confirmed in a slide deck [PDF] released on Wednesday."

etc at El Reg https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/06/13/eu_uk_galileo/

over a barrel, eh ?

- dspp

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#145891

Postby DiamondEcho » June 15th, 2018, 3:52 pm

Let's hope the rEU don't want any software updates, or er coverage of the South Atlantic, etc. Or I reckon we'd have them over a barrel, as they say.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.u ... ALILEO.pdf

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#149698

Postby dspp » July 3rd, 2018, 1:56 pm

Consequences, consequences .......

Spain will host the headquarters of the EU’s counter-piracy Operation ‘Atalanta’ off the Horn of Africa in Rota, the Spanish defence minister has announced.

Since it began in December 2008, Operation ‘Atalanta’ has been commanded by a UK-led operational headquarters (OHQ) co-located with the Permanent Joint Headquarters in Northwood, London.

The decision to move the headquarters by EU foreign and defence ministers meeting in Luxembourg at the end of June must be formalised by the Council of the EU meeting in Brussels in July, according to the Spanish Ministry of Defence (MoD).

Robles said at the end of June that the new location of the EUNAVFOR headquarters had previously been agreed by Spain, France, and Italy.


http://www.janes.com/article/81488/spai ... adquarters

(note to Mods this snippet is the OK to quote bit from Janes)

regards, dspp

Itsallaguess
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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#155671

Postby Itsallaguess » July 27th, 2018, 7:41 pm

British police and armed forces could be guaranteed uninterrupted access to the encrypted signal of the European Union’s Galileo satellite system, it has emerged, as Brussels negotiators consider a unique deal for the UK on the project after Brexit.

The EU’s chief Brexit negotiator, Michel Barnier, is mulling an offer on the satellite project that would put the UK on better terms than other third-party countries over use of the encrypted service, according to diplomatic sources.

The plans, which are still on the drawing board, suggest a bit more flexibility than Barnier’s public position that the UK would be treated like any other non-EU country.


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... ter-brexit

Negotiations still seem to be ongoing, and of course nothing is guaranteed, but it's interesting to see a change of approach to what many think is an EU that absolutely refuses to budge on their approach to these issues.....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

vrdiver
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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#155772

Postby vrdiver » July 28th, 2018, 11:04 am

ap8889 wrote:Galileo is a pork barrel project that we can well live without.

Let them have their pork and eat it.

It may or may not be, but if the money's going to be spent anyway I'd rather have British companies and universities developing their expertise than letting it all go abroad.
Wouldn't you?

XFool
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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#155808

Postby XFool » July 28th, 2018, 2:10 pm

ap8889 wrote:Galileo is a pork barrel project that we can well live without.

Why?

Oh you mean we can depend on other nations versions of SatNav as we don't have our own?

But whatever happened to 'sovereignty', 'control', 'our own money' etc? If that is what you really want then it implies we develop our own system. Is that what you think we need to do? After all, we don't want depend on other nation's systems that we have no control over whatsoever, do we?

Now in the circumstances, to me, that does sound a waste of money.

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162175

Postby ursaminortaur » August 26th, 2018, 1:14 pm

May has apparently set officials to work on mapping out how a British rival to Galileo would work.

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/97803/brexit-satellite-row-hots-theresa-may-orders-rival-eus

Theresa May has ordered plans for a British rival to the Galileo satellite project, as the European Commission continues to play hardball over the multi-billion pound scheme.
.
.
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According to the Sunday Telegraph, the Prime Minister has now told officials to start work on a rival network, with £100m of Treasury funding set to be spent on "mapping out how a sovereign satellite system would work".
"We still want to be part of the Galileo project but we have got to prepare for all eventualities," a Whitehall source told the paper.
The £100m is set to come from a £3bn pot outlined by chancellor Philip Hammond at last year's Budget in a bid to help the UK prepare for Brexit, and an official announcement is expected this week.

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162193

Postby vrdiver » August 26th, 2018, 2:50 pm

We're up to our eyes in debt - have little idea about where the "hidden costs" of Brexit are going to bite us, but apparently, we can spend the odd £100M on thinking about a new, improved GPS system!

I'd have gone for it wholeheartedly just about any other time, but a few months before Brexit? I'd rather be spending it on planning NHS staffing levels, temporary warehousing for essentials during the transition and perhaps a few more trade negotiators or port facilities...

If May doesn't pull off an FTA with the EU, then faffing about with satellites is not going to be on anyone's short-term priority list!

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162197

Postby BobbyD » August 26th, 2018, 3:38 pm

vrdiver wrote:We're up to our eyes in debt - have little idea about where the "hidden costs" of Brexit are going to bite us, but apparently, we can spend the odd £100M on thinking about a new, improved GPS system!

I'd have gone for it wholeheartedly just about any other time, but a few months before Brexit? I'd rather be spending it on planning NHS staffing levels, temporary warehousing for essentials during the transition and perhaps a few more trade negotiators or port facilities...

If May doesn't pull off an FTA with the EU, then faffing about with satellites is not going to be on anyone's short-term priority list!


There is absolutely no precedent for a government trying to cover up its inability to keep the supermarket shelves stocked by waving flashy space based achievements around Comrade.

ursaminortaur
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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162201

Postby ursaminortaur » August 26th, 2018, 3:47 pm

BobbyD wrote:
vrdiver wrote:We're up to our eyes in debt - have little idea about where the "hidden costs" of Brexit are going to bite us, but apparently, we can spend the odd £100M on thinking about a new, improved GPS system!

I'd have gone for it wholeheartedly just about any other time, but a few months before Brexit? I'd rather be spending it on planning NHS staffing levels, temporary warehousing for essentials during the transition and perhaps a few more trade negotiators or port facilities...

If May doesn't pull off an FTA with the EU, then faffing about with satellites is not going to be on anyone's short-term priority list!


There is absolutely no precedent for a government trying to cover up its inability to keep the supermarket shelves stocked by waving flashy space based achievements around Comrade.


At least the Soviet Union's achievements in space were generally firsts - replicating an existing satellite system is rather less flashy.

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162211

Postby Garless » August 26th, 2018, 4:33 pm

What Galileo offers that we loose is secure communications for our forces as we will not know the crypto codes. A bit similar to many years ago the UK stopped development of communications spy satellites and depended on NSA. As luck would have it NSA ignored their politicians and fed GCHQ during the Falklands but can we depend on them with Trump.

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162214

Postby Garless » August 26th, 2018, 4:39 pm

At least the Soviet Union's achievements in space were generally firsts - replicating an existing satellite system is rather less flashy.

Remind me when the Russians landed a man on the Moon or when they gave gave up on a space shuttle, both USA and Russian lost astronauts but Russia has a poor record as as their secretive reports have shown later.

ursaminortaur
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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162241

Postby ursaminortaur » August 26th, 2018, 6:26 pm

Garless wrote:
ursaminortaur wrote:At least the Soviet Union's achievements in space were generally firsts - replicating an existing satellite system is rather less flashy.


Remind me when the Russians landed a man on the Moon or when they gave gave up on a space shuttle, both USA and Russian lost astronauts but Russia has a poor record as as their secretive reports have shown later.


I was thinking more of

Launch of first artificial satellite - Sputnick 1
First dog in orbit - Laika on Sputnick 2
First man in space - Yuri Gagarin
First woman in space - Valentina Tereshkova
First spacewalk - Alexei Leonov
First spacecraft to reach surface of the moon (impact) - Luna 2
First spacecraft to photograph the far side of moon - Luna 3
First spacecraft to soft land on the moon (unmanned) - Luna 9
First sample of lunar soil returned to earth - Luna 16
First lunar rover - Lunokhod 1
First space station - Salyut 1
First probe to fly by Venus - Venera 1
First probe to fly by Mars - Mars 1
First probe to impact Venus - Venera 3
First probe to impact Mars - Mars 2
First probe to soft land on Venus - Venera 7
First probe to soft land on Mars - Mars 3

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162242

Postby XFool » August 26th, 2018, 6:28 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:According to the Sunday Telegraph, the Prime Minister has now told officials to start work on a rival network, with £100m of Treasury funding set to be spent on "mapping out how a sovereign satellite system would work".

IMO a strange choice of words: "rival". I can't see why it would be a "rival", surely it's just an alternative? Or would there be commercial competition?

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162245

Postby XFool » August 26th, 2018, 6:37 pm

ap8889 wrote:Galileo is a pork barrel project that we can well live without.

Let them have their pork and eat it.

"We must take back control! But not THAT control..."

We need to "control" the shape of bananas and cucumbers, but a precision satellite positioning for our industries and military? "Fuggetaboutit!"

Brexit is very strange project. ;)

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162259

Postby Ashfordian » August 26th, 2018, 7:37 pm

vrdiver wrote:We're up to our eyes in debt - have little idea about where the "hidden costs" of Brexit are going to bite us, but apparently, we can spend the odd £100M on thinking about a new, improved GPS system!!


As we will save at least £350m a week by leaving that is only 2 days spending. That is a great return especially as all of it will be spent in the UK.

ursaminortaur
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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162273

Postby ursaminortaur » August 26th, 2018, 8:15 pm

Ashfordian wrote:
vrdiver wrote:We're up to our eyes in debt - have little idea about where the "hidden costs" of Brexit are going to bite us, but apparently, we can spend the odd £100M on thinking about a new, improved GPS system!!


As we will save at least £350m a week by leaving that is only 2 days spending. That is a great return especially as all of it will be spent in the UK.


How many times have you spent this so called brexit dividend ? Which according to Rees-Mogg you won't really see for about 50 years.

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162301

Postby vrdiver » August 26th, 2018, 10:45 pm

Ashfordian wrote:
vrdiver wrote:We're up to our eyes in debt - have little idea about where the "hidden costs" of Brexit are going to bite us, but apparently, we can spend the odd £100M on thinking about a new, improved GPS system!!


As we will save at least £350m a week by leaving that is only 2 days spending. That is a great return especially as all of it will be spent in the UK.

Presumably, it will be allocated using the same process that saw De La Rue lose out to a French company on printing British passports? If our security documents can be offshored to save a few bob I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a British company to announce it's won the Galileo think-tank contract!

As for the £350m/w, I wouldn't start spending that 'till it was counted in by the Treasury; funny how forecasts weren't believable beforehand, but now they're so good...

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Re: Galileo and Brexit

#162307

Postby Ashfordian » August 26th, 2018, 11:14 pm

vrdiver wrote:
Ashfordian wrote:
vrdiver wrote:We're up to our eyes in debt - have little idea about where the "hidden costs" of Brexit are going to bite us, but apparently, we can spend the odd £100M on thinking about a new, improved GPS system!!


As we will save at least £350m a week by leaving that is only 2 days spending. That is a great return especially as all of it will be spent in the UK.

Presumably, it will be allocated using the same process that saw De La Rue lose out to a French company on printing British passports? If our security documents can be offshored to save a few bob I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for a British company to announce it's won the Galileo think-tank contract!

As for the £350m/w, I wouldn't start spending that 'till it was counted in by the Treasury; funny how forecasts weren't believable beforehand, but now they're so good...


£350m/w is not a forecast, it is a real payment. If it was not a real payment, remain would have won!

We don't need the treasury, even with their continued political forecasting, to inform us that we have this Brexit dividend.


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