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The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

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beeswax
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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146310

Postby beeswax » June 17th, 2018, 12:18 pm

Sundance13 wrote:
beeswax wrote:As a leaver, I have not admitted we will have a short term blip as always thought at the end of the day the EU will agree a trade deal pretty much on the same basis as we have and the big businesses in the EU are saying this too. Are they really going to cut off their noses to spite their face...

Juncker may and a few others and Merkel seems to be on her last ego trip now and so lets see. Even so even if there was, its a price worth paying.

Had we had a Donald Trump on our negotiating team a deal would have been done by now and no need for any transition period and the lesson is don't have weak kneed politicians negotiating trade deals, leave that to the real business people who KNOW how to do that...



They have no choice Mike, due to the Govts stance on the Single Market and decision that it wishes to diverge from EU regulations over time. The whole foundation of the single market (the rules all members adhere to) is of harmonised regulations, overseen by the EU Commission and ECJ, to ensure everyone plays by the same rules. You can’t have 1 country playing to different rules than everyone else, it would crack the foundations and bring the whole SM down.

Imagine if one country at the World Cup said it refused to play unless it could play by its own rules, not the rules the rest have agreed to? Perhaps it wants extra substitutes or the offside rule interpreted differently. It would cause chaos if it was allowed.

It’s not the EUs choice, it’s the Govts red lines. If the red lines change, so do our options including ones enabling us to maintain frictionless trade. It’s really all up to the Govt.


Hi Dan, it never stops does it...;)

The harmonised rules and regs and the ECJ is a bogus argument though as any country doing a free trade deal with the EU can only sell in to it goods that conform to those rules and vice versa for the EU to sell into non EU countries etc. There is a arbitration facility available that is pretty much on similar lines to the ECJ and so its all just whitewash to make it harder than it should as they don't want anyone to leave their political project. But the immigration of millions into Europe has been festering for a while and now Italy has refused boats landing etc its all coming to a head. Merkel ditto who may be gone soon and that may well start a revision of the political stance on the four freedoms by doing something they should always have done and that is allow EACH country to decide its OWN immigration and asylum policy and had that been the case, we would still have been a member and Cameron could have come back with that too...

No goods can be sold or bought unless it meets certain conformance standards and I say again, this county has been at the forefront of quality and conformance standards since the Industrial revolution and we along with the USA and Germany progressed these to what they are today...BOG standard anyone? DEF standards, BSI etc and I resent people trying to argue we will have problems with any of it and then we have the English language and legal standards to add to all that and its a no brainer...

Now my friend try using the likes of Greece or Italy or Portugal and any other number of Countries in that conversation and you have a point...

Yes the politicians will argue but I just cannot see Germany agreeing to any trade deal that doesn't suit their manufactures and that deal is what we have now but can be couched into some sort of compromise so it doesn't sound as though they have capitulated. The whole idea is to reduce tariffs world wide and so a FTA will be no different than the single market access as the free movement of people will no longer apply..No Island nation OR any other nation could ever have accepted that indefinitely anyway...

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146315

Postby Ashfordian » June 17th, 2018, 12:26 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:
Ashfordian wrote:While this is not the reason I voted for Brexit it is great to see the start of positive change in the UK with increased investment in the NHS.

I am not surprised remainers are acting like they have been sucking on a lemons all morning as their cause is not enhanced by positive Brexit news, especially when the NHS is getting the benefit.

It's even better that it puts remainer MP's in another no-win situation as if they achieve their aim and the UK continues to pay into the EU the NHS gets less money. Let's hope they see reason and do not vote to decrease pledged spending on the NHS


There won't be £350 million a week available after 2023 firstly because we never sent that amount to the EU in the first place but also because we will be paying our brexit bill until about 2064 according to the OBR with bigger payments at the start

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-brexit-divorce-bill-taxpayers-deadline-treasury-obr-office-budget-responsibility-a8253751.html

New official data indicates that Britain will be paying its Brexit divorce bill for 45 years after leaving the EU – until 2064.


So despite currently paying in £350m a week, we are on the hook for roughly another £40bn. This shows how absurd the EU gravy train is on those who pay for it. If we were not leaving it has been proved we would have been paying way more than £350m a week in 2023 and likely to have been on the hook for at a guess £60bn extra committed spending. I cannot believe the stupidity of anyone who supports this financial mess.


ursaminortaur wrote:And, at least in the past, brexiteers have admitted that there will be at least a short term hit to the economy from brexit which even with a very soft brexit would more than wipe out any difference between our current budget contribution and what we will be paying as part of our exit bill in 2023 and the subsequent few years. Hence claiming that this is a brexit dividend is pure spin.


They really had no choice but to agree to that with the coordinated predictions of financial armageddon from the 'financial terrorists'. The great thing about voting to leave is that it has shown all these people and institutions up to be what they really are, charlatans. They allowed themselves to be politicised by the EU/remain side and now have no credibility. Yet one side are still blindly believe their lies.

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146316

Postby ursaminortaur » June 17th, 2018, 12:27 pm

beeswax wrote:
Sundance13 wrote:
beeswax wrote:As a leaver, I have not admitted we will have a short term blip as always thought at the end of the day the EU will agree a trade deal pretty much on the same basis as we have and the big businesses in the EU are saying this too. Are they really going to cut off their noses to spite their face...

Juncker may and a few others and Merkel seems to be on her last ego trip now and so lets see. Even so even if there was, its a price worth paying.

Had we had a Donald Trump on our negotiating team a deal would have been done by now and no need for any transition period and the lesson is don't have weak kneed politicians negotiating trade deals, leave that to the real business people who KNOW how to do that...



They have no choice Mike, due to the Govts stance on the Single Market and decision that it wishes to diverge from EU regulations over time. The whole foundation of the single market (the rules all members adhere to) is of harmonised regulations, overseen by the EU Commission and ECJ, to ensure everyone plays by the same rules. You can’t have 1 country playing to different rules than everyone else, it would crack the foundations and bring the whole SM down.

Imagine if one country at the World Cup said it refused to play unless it could play by its own rules, not the rules the rest have agreed to? Perhaps it wants extra substitutes or the offside rule interpreted differently. It would cause chaos if it was allowed.

It’s not the EUs choice, it’s the Govts red lines. If the red lines change, so do our options including ones enabling us to maintain frictionless trade. It’s really all up to the Govt.


Hi Dan, it never stops does it...;)

The harmonised rules and regs and the ECJ is a bogus argument though as any country doing a free trade deal with the EU can only sell in to it goods that conform to those rules and vice versa for the EU to sell into non EU countries etc. There is a arbitration facility available that is pretty much on similar lines to the ECJ and so its all just whitewash to make it harder than it should as they don't want anyone to leave their political project.


By that argument it should be as easy for a company in the US to sell goods into the UK as it is for someone in Manchester to sell goods to elsewhere in the UK. The UK is a single market and although exporters from the US have to comply to our standards we still conduct customs checks on those goods coming in.

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146320

Postby Sundance13 » June 17th, 2018, 12:43 pm

beeswax wrote:
Sundance13 wrote:
beeswax wrote:As a leaver, I have not admitted we will have a short term blip as always thought at the end of the day the EU will agree a trade deal pretty much on the same basis as we have and the big businesses in the EU are saying this too. Are they really going to cut off their noses to spite their face...

Juncker may and a few others and Merkel seems to be on her last ego trip now and so lets see. Even so even if there was, its a price worth paying.

Had we had a Donald Trump on our negotiating team a deal would have been done by now and no need for any transition period and the lesson is don't have weak kneed politicians negotiating trade deals, leave that to the real business people who KNOW how to do that...



They have no choice Mike, due to the Govts stance on the Single Market and decision that it wishes to diverge from EU regulations over time. The whole foundation of the single market (the rules all members adhere to) is of harmonised regulations, overseen by the EU Commission and ECJ, to ensure everyone plays by the same rules. You can’t have 1 country playing to different rules than everyone else, it would crack the foundations and bring the whole SM down.

Imagine if one country at the World Cup said it refused to play unless it could play by its own rules, not the rules the rest have agreed to? Perhaps it wants extra substitutes or the offside rule interpreted differently. It would cause chaos if it was allowed.

It’s not the EUs choice, it’s the Govts red lines. If the red lines change, so do our options including ones enabling us to maintain frictionless trade. It’s really all up to the Govt.


Hi Dan, it never stops does it...;)

The harmonised rules and regs and the ECJ is a bogus argument though as any country doing a free trade deal with the EU can only sell in to it goods that conform to those rules and vice versa for the EU to sell into non EU countries etc. There is a arbitration facility available that is pretty much on similar lines to the ECJ and so its all just whitewash to make it harder than it should as they don't want anyone to leave their political project. But the immigration of millions into Europe has been festering for a while and now Italy has refused boats landing etc its all coming to a head. Merkel ditto who may be gone soon and that may well start a revision of the political stance on the four freedoms by doing something they should always have done and that is allow EACH country to decide its OWN immigration and asylum policy and had that been the case, we would still have been a member and Cameron could have come back with that too...

No goods can be sold or bought unless it meets certain conformance standards and I say again, this county has been at the forefront of quality and conformance standards since the Industrial revolution and we along with the USA and Germany progressed these to what they are today...BOG standard anyone? DEF standards, BSI etc and I resent people trying to argue we will have problems with any of it and then we have the English language and legal standards to add to all that and its a no brainer...

Now my friend try using the likes of Greece or Italy or Portugal and any other number of Countries in that conversation and you have a point...

Yes the politicians will argue but I just cannot see Germany agreeing to any trade deal that doesn't suit their manufactures and that deal is what we have now but can be couched into some sort of compromise so it doesn't sound as though they have capitulated. The whole idea is to reduce tariffs world wide and so a FTA will be no different than the single market access as the free movement of people will no longer apply..No Island nation OR any other nation could ever have accepted that indefinitely anyway...


Hi Mike,

Adhering to EU regulatory standards doesn’t eliminate the need for conformity checks. Currently as a single market member these checks are conducted by EU regulatory bodies/agencies away from the border. This is done precisely to eliminate all these checks taking place at borders, causing delays and disrupting trade.

Once we leave the single market, those behind the scenes checks don’t disappear, they just move to the border, causing all the issues above. There are also all the product licences, passports etc, that simply disappear once we leave the single market, exports in those industries cease.

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146326

Postby anticrank » June 17th, 2018, 1:17 pm

Sundance13 wrote:
beeswax wrote:
Sundance13 wrote:

They have no choice Mike, due to the Govts stance on the Single Market and decision that it wishes to diverge from EU regulations over time. The whole foundation of the single market (the rules all members adhere to) is of harmonised regulations, overseen by the EU Commission and ECJ, to ensure everyone plays by the same rules. You can’t have 1 country playing to different rules than everyone else, it would crack the foundations and bring the whole SM down.

Imagine if one country at the World Cup said it refused to play unless it could play by its own rules, not the rules the rest have agreed to? Perhaps it wants extra substitutes or the offside rule interpreted differently. It would cause chaos if it was allowed.

It’s not the EUs choice, it’s the Govts red lines. If the red lines change, so do our options including ones enabling us to maintain frictionless trade. It’s really all up to the Govt.


Hi Dan, it never stops does it...;)

The harmonised rules and regs and the ECJ is a bogus argument though as any country doing a free trade deal with the EU can only sell in to it goods that conform to those rules and vice versa for the EU to sell into non EU countries etc. There is a arbitration facility available that is pretty much on similar lines to the ECJ and so its all just whitewash to make it harder than it should as they don't want anyone to leave their political project. But the immigration of millions into Europe has been festering for a while and now Italy has refused boats landing etc its all coming to a head. Merkel ditto who may be gone soon and that may well start a revision of the political stance on the four freedoms by doing something they should always have done and that is allow EACH country to decide its OWN immigration and asylum policy and had that been the case, we would still have been a member and Cameron could have come back with that too...

No goods can be sold or bought unless it meets certain conformance standards and I say again, this county has been at the forefront of quality and conformance standards since the Industrial revolution and we along with the USA and Germany progressed these to what they are today...BOG standard anyone? DEF standards, BSI etc and I resent people trying to argue we will have problems with any of it and then we have the English language and legal standards to add to all that and its a no brainer...

Now my friend try using the likes of Greece or Italy or Portugal and any other number of Countries in that conversation and you have a point...

Yes the politicians will argue but I just cannot see Germany agreeing to any trade deal that doesn't suit their manufactures and that deal is what we have now but can be couched into some sort of compromise so it doesn't sound as though they have capitulated. The whole idea is to reduce tariffs world wide and so a FTA will be no different than the single market access as the free movement of people will no longer apply..No Island nation OR any other nation could ever have accepted that indefinitely anyway...


Hi Mike,

Adhering to EU regulatory standards doesn’t eliminate the need for conformity checks. Currently as a single market member these checks are conducted by EU regulatory bodies/agencies away from the border. This is done precisely to eliminate all these checks taking place at borders, causing delays and disrupting trade.

Once we leave the single market, those behind the scenes checks don’t disappear, they just move to the border, causing all the issues above. There are also all the product licences, passports etc, that simply disappear once we leave the single market, exports in those industries cease.


This is incorrect, or, at least, gives the wrong impression. There are no conformity checks on goods we export to the EU, above and beyond those that would be applied to goods sold domestically. All goods must be in conformity with regulations, wherever sold. It's not simply the case that EU/SM membership relocates these checks. It eliminates them entirely as import/export barriers.

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146330

Postby Charlottesquare » June 17th, 2018, 1:33 pm

ap8889 wrote:Remainers are so aggrieved about Brexit. They have Fear Of Missing Out on all that good legislation from Brussels: stuff like banning composting of tea-bags and prohibiting bananas with abnormal curvature are great fun!


You have me really worried, my compost heap at my house in Sweden has tea bags in it, what if the compost inspector comes round when I am not there and spots them.

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146333

Postby Charlottesquare » June 17th, 2018, 1:44 pm

beeswax wrote:
Had we had a Donald Trump on our negotiating team a deal would have been done by now and no need for any transition period and the lesson is don't have weak kneed politicians negotiating trade deals, leave that to the real business people who KNOW how to do that...


You sure a Trump type deal would work, appears tariffs against the USA are likely to keep increasing, depends how tit for tat they become as to where they end, steel prices in US are apparently already higher(if one listens to interviews with US companies using steel in production).

Still, worst hit will only be the lowest paid who cannot readily absorb the increased prices, the grass is often not greener.

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146335

Postby ursaminortaur » June 17th, 2018, 1:59 pm

I'm wondering about the timing of this and the fact that there is no clarity on where the money will come from.
Could it be that May is planning for a general election in the near future either because she thinks she might lose a confidence vote or that she has decided to risk it all by calling one herself ? She could argue, as she did at the last general election, that she needs a big majority to push through brexit and that she can't make progress without an election to give her that. If, as at the last general election, she doesn't cost the Tory manifesto then it rather spikes Labour on the NHS as they won't be able to cost anything either.
The fixed term parliament act obviously limits her ability to call an election but she got around that in 2017 - and it would be really strange if you had Labour voting with her for a General election and the Conservatives chickening out and voting against her on that issue. The Conservatives wouldn't have time to hold a leadership election to replace her and hence she would therefore lead them through the election. It might be her best strategy, if she loses then brexit is no longer her problem, if she gets an improved majority it would strenghten her hand and would allow her to dispense with the support of the DUP, if the result is pretty much a repeat of 2017 then she's not really any worse off - even after that I'm not sure there would be any Tories willing to take on brexit and launch a leadership challenge.

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146337

Postby Charlottesquare » June 17th, 2018, 2:12 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:I'm wondering about the timing of this and the fact that there is no clarity on where the money will come from.
Could it be that May is planning for a general election in the near future either because she thinks she might lose a confidence vote or that she has decided to risk it all by calling one herself ? She could argue, as she did at the last general election, that she needs a big majority to push through brexit and that she can't make progress without an election to give her that. If, as at the last general election, she doesn't cost the Tory manifesto then it rather spikes Labour on the NHS as they won't be able to cost anything either.
The fixed term parliament act obviously limits her ability to call an election but she got around that in 2017 - and it would be really strange if you had Labour voting with her for a General election and the Conservatives chickening out and voting against her on that issue. The Conservatives wouldn't have time to hold a leadership election to replace her and hence she would therefore lead them through the election. It might be her best strategy, if she loses then brexit is no longer her problem, if she gets an improved majority it would strenghten her hand and would allow her to dispense with the support of the DUP, if the result is pretty much a repeat of 2017 then she's not really any worse off - even after that I'm not sure there would be any Tories willing to take on brexit and launch a leadership challenge.


I somehow think the electorate would be somewhat miffed is she tried her 2017 approach yet again as it did not give her the result she wanted the first time. That would be a fair bit of baggage to carry at the outset of a campaign. It is one thing to be a lame duck PM which everyone can see is a lame duck, quite another to start quacking and openly admit this is the case.

I do not think she has left (if she ever had) the political capital to try such a move, especially as there must be, like me, a fair few with Conservative tendencies who would right now welcome the opportunity to really punish her party for the shambles we now have. (Albeit my vote means naught to them as their making progress in Edinburgh North is just not going to happen)

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146341

Postby mosschops » June 17th, 2018, 2:43 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:I'm wondering about the timing of this and the fact that there is no clarity on where the money will come from.
Could it be that May is planning for a general election in the near future either because she thinks she might lose a confidence vote or that she has decided to risk it all by calling one herself ? She could argue, as she did at the last general election, that she needs a big majority to push through brexit and that she can't make progress without an election to give her that. If, as at the last general election, she doesn't cost the Tory manifesto then it rather spikes Labour on the NHS as they won't be able to cost anything either.
The fixed term parliament act obviously limits her ability to call an election but she got around that in 2017 - and it would be really strange if you had Labour voting with her for a General election and the Conservatives chickening out and voting against her on that issue. The Conservatives wouldn't have time to hold a leadership election to replace her and hence she would therefore lead them through the election. It might be her best strategy, if she loses then brexit is no longer her problem, if she gets an improved majority it would strenghten her hand and would allow her to dispense with the support of the DUP, if the result is pretty much a repeat of 2017 then she's not really any worse off - even after that I'm not sure there would be any Tories willing to take on brexit and launch a leadership challenge.


They are about to cave on a lot of the EU demands I think so this a move to shore up support because they are in such a weak position. I think we’ll see tax rises in the autumn to pay for this, or increased borrowing once it kicks in.

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146343

Postby beeswax » June 17th, 2018, 2:57 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:I'm wondering about the timing of this and the fact that there is no clarity on where the money will come from.
Could it be that May is planning for a general election in the near future either because she thinks she might lose a confidence vote or that she has decided to risk it all by calling one herself ? She could argue, as she did at the last general election, that she needs a big majority to push through brexit and that she can't make progress without an election to give her that. If, as at the last general election, she doesn't cost the Tory manifesto then it rather spikes Labour on the NHS as they won't be able to cost anything either.
The fixed term parliament act obviously limits her ability to call an election but she got around that in 2017 - and it would be really strange if you had Labour voting with her for a General election and the Conservatives chickening out and voting against her on that issue. The Conservatives wouldn't have time to hold a leadership election to replace her and hence she would therefore lead them through the election. It might be her best strategy, if she loses then brexit is no longer her problem, if she gets an improved majority it would strenghten her hand and would allow her to dispense with the support of the DUP, if the result is pretty much a repeat of 2017 then she's not really any worse off - even after that I'm not sure there would be any Tories willing to take on brexit and launch a leadership challenge.


I tend to agree with all that myself because the Tories cannot go on with a hung parliament as nothing is getting done, the opinion polls are moving in her direction and Corbyn is past his peak now and the polls also show she has the better support for Brexit than Corbyn and so IF she thinks there could be a leadership contest soon as the media keeps predicting then what has she got to lose? Nothing and now her promise to the NHS has really spiked the guns for Labour and it may well be that is what is more likely to happen and further, The majority of Labour MP's still want rid of Corbyn and so any vote to dissolve Parliament will surely succeed.

It would explain why Hammond is silent too..

I'm not sure whether her being re elected will alter her Brexit approach but now she is taking on the Remainer Parliament both Commons and Lords that they cannot bind the government's decision and reverse the decision of the British people and so maybe a sinner who repents deserves more praise in heaven if not on these boards and all you remainers have to do is....get aboard! I hear angels singing! ;)

Just to add NO sign of that referendum being 'advisory' now hey and so we can put that one to bed now good and proper!

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146361

Postby BobbyD » June 17th, 2018, 6:42 pm

Sarah Wollaston MP

Verified account

@sarahwollaston
Follow Follow @sarahwollaston
More
The Brexit dividend tosh was expected but treats the public as fools. Sad to see Govt slide to populist arguments rather than evidence on such an important issue. This will make it harder to have a rational debate about the ‘who & how’ of funding & sharing this fairly.


- https://twitter.com/sarahwollaston/stat ... 2998179840

- Sarah Wollaston, Conservative MP for Totnes, and chair of the Health Select Committee...

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146363

Postby Ashfordian » June 17th, 2018, 6:46 pm

BobbyD wrote:
Sarah Wollaston MP

Verified account

@sarahwollaston
Follow Follow @sarahwollaston
More
The Brexit dividend tosh was expected but treats the public as fools. Sad to see Govt slide to populist arguments rather than evidence on such an important issue. This will make it harder to have a rational debate about the ‘who & how’ of funding & sharing this fairly.


- https://twitter.com/sarahwollaston/stat ... 2998179840

- Sarah Wollaston, Conservative MP for Totnes, and chair of the Health Select Committee...


Quelle surprise from a moaning loser of the referendum
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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146366

Postby Sundance13 » June 17th, 2018, 7:20 pm

mosschops wrote:
ursaminortaur wrote:I'm wondering about the timing of this and the fact that there is no clarity on where the money will come from.
Could it be that May is planning for a general election in the near future either because she thinks she might lose a confidence vote or that she has decided to risk it all by calling one herself ? She could argue, as she did at the last general election, that she needs a big majority to push through brexit and that she can't make progress without an election to give her that. If, as at the last general election, she doesn't cost the Tory manifesto then it rather spikes Labour on the NHS as they won't be able to cost anything either.
The fixed term parliament act obviously limits her ability to call an election but she got around that in 2017 - and it would be really strange if you had Labour voting with her for a General election and the Conservatives chickening out and voting against her on that issue. The Conservatives wouldn't have time to hold a leadership election to replace her and hence she would therefore lead them through the election. It might be her best strategy, if she loses then brexit is no longer her problem, if she gets an improved majority it would strenghten her hand and would allow her to dispense with the support of the DUP, if the result is pretty much a repeat of 2017 then she's not really any worse off - even after that I'm not sure there would be any Tories willing to take on brexit and launch a leadership challenge.


They are about to cave on a lot of the EU demands I think so this a move to shore up support because they are in such a weak position. I think we’ll see tax rises in the autumn to pay for this, or increased borrowing once it kicks in.


The Times were suggesting this also, that it’s May throwing the Brexiteers a symbolic bone, before she caves in on most of the EUs demands later this month.

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146383

Postby XFool » June 17th, 2018, 11:49 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:
ap8889 wrote:Remainers are so aggrieved about Brexit. They have Fear Of Missing Out on all that good legislation from Brussels: stuff like banning composting of tea-bags and prohibiting bananas with abnormal curvature are great fun!

Do you have to keep repeating these stupid brexit myths.

Yes. Stupid Brexit myths, for many Brexiteers, appear to be part of their core beliefs!

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146384

Postby XFool » June 17th, 2018, 11:56 pm

beeswax wrote:Had we had a Donald Trump on our negotiating team a deal would have been done by now and no need for any transition period and the lesson is don't have weak kneed politicians negotiating trade deals, leave that to the real business people who KNOW how to do that...

I can go along with you some way on this. If we had Donald Trump negotiating I feel sure that by now it would indeed have been announced that an absolutely "wonderful" deal had been done... ;)

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Re: The Joy of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146385

Postby XFool » June 18th, 2018, 12:13 am

ap8889 wrote:
Do you have to keep repeating these stupid brexit myths?

Yes. If the EU was better beloved and less prone to such pettifogging no-one would believe them. But as it is you could make up any idiot nonsense rule, tell people the EU dictates it and they will believe it because it coheres with their experience of the organisation. If the EU was
less prescriptive and more tolerant of local flavour and flaws everyone would spot the difference between fake and real.

But what is this "experience of the organisation" that the man in the street has? I cannot readily think of what experience I have of the EU, on a day to day basis.

ap8889 wrote:
He’s trolling, there’s no point responding to him, he’s not interested in discussion, just spouting nonsense to irritate others.

Ouch. I am very interested in the discussion as it reveals that Remain just doesn't understand why it lost.

Well I continue to want to understand the reasons why the vote went the way it did.

ap8889 wrote:People vote bravely with their hearts because they hope for better, not with their heads because the complex cost/benefit of trade across borders is favourable.

And I'm still waiting for a clear, understandable explanation of why it is reasonable to expect things will be "better" and in what way, for the man in the street. Whether in the street in London or in a Northern town.

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146406

Postby Ashfordian » June 18th, 2018, 9:31 am

XFool wrote:
ursaminortaur wrote:
ap8889 wrote:Remainers are so aggrieved about Brexit. They have Fear Of Missing Out on all that good legislation from Brussels: stuff like banning composting of tea-bags and prohibiting bananas with abnormal curvature are great fun!

Do you have to keep repeating these stupid brexit myths.

Yes. Stupid Brexit myths, for many Brexiteers, appear to be part of their core beliefs!


If Carlsburg did recessions, this would be the best recession the world has ever seen.


People in glass houses should not even think of throwing stones...

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Re: The Joy of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146411

Postby BobbyD » June 18th, 2018, 9:58 am

XFool wrote:And I'm still waiting for a clear, understandable explanation of why it is reasonable to expect things will be "better" and in what way, for the man in the street. Whether in the street in London or in a Northern town.


I have a friend who will proudly and knowingly declare her chances of picking the ace of spades from a pack of cards spread face down on an opaque table as being 50/50. Either the card she picks will be the ace of spades, or it won't... see it's 50/50...

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Re: The Job of Brex part deux: £350m worth

#146427

Postby BobbyD » June 18th, 2018, 11:29 am

ap8889 wrote:https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/06/16/350m-extra-week-nhs-hunt-announces-theresa-may-locks-britain/

May spends hundreds of millions more per week on the NHS! Notice where the money is coming from Remainers? The Brexit dividend!

Yep, the majority of this new NHS spend is the money we normally send to the EU.


Jeremy Hunt has refused to spell out how the government's promised £20bn NHS boost will be paid for, amid a wave of criticism at claims the money could come from the "Brexit dividend".

The health secretary admitted the move would "increase the burden of taxation" but repeatedly refused to confirm whether it would be funded by stealth taxes, such as delaying rises in income tax thresholds.

...

He went on: "We will be able to explain exactly where every penny is coming from but we will do that in the budget.

"Why are we not doing it now? We do know - the Treasury has done its sums, it hasn't made its final decisions but it is very clear this can be affordable.

"The reason why we are not spelling it out now is because we want to give the NHS six months to come up with a really good 10-year plan.



- https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 03976.html

Squirrel ======>>>>>>>>>


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