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Local Authority Brexit Impact Studies

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BobbyD
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Local Authority Brexit Impact Studies

#156570

Postby BobbyD » August 1st, 2018, 2:10 pm

As the government further delays publication of 'no deal' Brexit preparedness reports, dozens of councils have taken the initiative to produce their own analyses, Sky News can reveal.

...

Nearly 30 councils have responded to a freedom of information request for their Brexit plans, with some expressing mounting incredulity and exasperation at having to plan to deliver local public services against a backdrop of highly uncertain Brexit negotiations with Europe and within government.

They say they are having to work out the implications for social care, border controls, the availability of food and medicines and even the fear of "social unrest"


- https://news.sky.com/story/councils-pre ... y-11455918

Sunny uplands ahoy.

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Re: Local Authority Brexit Impact Studies

#158933

Postby XFool » August 12th, 2018, 11:49 am

Another thing...

As Brexit seems to have taken over everything else in government and politics there is no discussion going on about the future of social care (a council responsibility). Northamptonshire council is supposed to have made some serious financial mistakes, but there is more to it than that. And they aren't the only one (both Con and Lab) in trouble:

BBC News

And as for those of the Brexit persuasion who claim: "It isn't about the economy. Other things are more important."

Wait and see...

I buy the argument about "the working class" and why they voted for Brexit at the Referendum - likely the only voting option open to them to send a message. But - Who will be most affected by councils and their services going bust in future? And, if they are unhappy now (the evidence is they are), how much happier will they be in future following Brexit (particularly if "hard")?

To me, over the long term, a hard Brexit still looks like a tragic 'Lose, Lose' scenario for "the working class", rather than a solution.

Trump? Ask yourself a question: "Was the USA ever in the EU?"

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Re: Local Authority Brexit Impact Studies

#158949

Postby beeswax » August 12th, 2018, 12:34 pm

XFool wrote:Another thing...

As Brexit seems to have taken over everything else in government and politics there is no discussion going on about the future of social care (a council responsibility). Northamptonshire council is supposed to have made some serious financial mistakes, but there is more to it than that. And they aren't the only one (both Con and Lab) in trouble:

BBC News

And as for those of the Brexit persuasion who claim: "It isn't about the economy. Other things are more important."

Wait and see...

I buy the argument about "the working class" and why they voted for Brexit at the Referendum - likely the only voting option open to them to send a message. But - Who will be most affected by councils and their services going bust in future? And, if they are unhappy now (the evidence is they are), how much happier will they be in future following Brexit (particularly if "hard")?

To me, over the long term, a hard Brexit still looks like a tragic 'Lose, Lose' scenario for "the working class", rather than a solution.

Trump? Ask yourself a question: "Was the USA ever in the EU?"


We haven't left the EU yet and so what IS the reason why LA's are running out of money?

There will always be an underclass of people that haven't shared in the prosperity of the nation. I said much the same back when we had tens of billions coming in from North Sea oil during the Thatcher years...Brexit won't change that but the ONLY thing they have is the ballot box..Ask all those in fishing and mining communities what happened to decimate their way of life? You could say the same about the cotton mills in the Lancs and Yorkshire...

The EU is on a downward spiral as the RoW catches up and I say again and again which remainers seem NOT to be able to grasp...

It's one thing being in a free trade area and another thing being in a political subservience area that has control of borders, laws and money which is the EU..Can't you spot the difference?

The EU single market is supposed to be a free trade area for members, but levies tariffs on non members..WHY when the general idea is to have zero tariffs across the world?

Leaving the EU was NOT because of the single market or trade it was, well you should all know by now but with respect its not sunk in yet...

Why are most of the other EU countries dissatisfied with Brussels and voters are turning against the EU? Exactly why Brexit happened and may well extend to others. Trying to force quotas of asylum seekers, having free movement of people and enforcing rules by a Brussels ECJ dictate is a sure way of destroying the EU and still they can't recognise it...Others will have to leave and soon and then just maybe they can return to a free trade area and keep the politics out as much as possible...

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Re: Local Authority Brexit Impact Studies

#158963

Postby XFool » August 12th, 2018, 1:26 pm

beeswax wrote:We haven't left the EU yet and so what IS the reason why LA's are running out of money?

Hah!

Beeswax. WE HAVEN'T LEFT THE EU YET - was the ENTIRE motivation for my post!

To emphasis: Without having yet left the EU and for entirely separate reasons (so far), councils are getting into financial difficulties and are having to cut back on their services. Who are likely to be most affected by this (EU aside)? The well off middle classes? Perhaps the 'rich metropolitan elites'? ;)

We hear "the working classes" are those mainly suffering at present and that is one reason for them voting in the main for LEAVE. I buy that argument. But, like others, I think the consequences of Brexit, particularly of the hard variety, will likely make things worse for many of the working class. Although the EU has been nominated as 'the enemy' and Brexit 'the solution', on this matter I just don't see it.

All this is BEFORE we consider the ongoing situation with local councils and the increasing costs of social care - a local authority responsibility. Meanwhile, as everything else in politics is on hold due to Brexit, we aren't even discussing the future of social care costs plus council financing.

And WE HAVEN'T LEFT THE EU YET.

beeswax wrote:There will always be an underclass of people that haven't shared in the prosperity of the nation. I said much the same back when we had tens of billions coming in from North Sea oil during the Thatcher years...Brexit won't change that but the ONLY thing they have is the ballot box..Ask all those in fishing and mining communities what happened to decimate their way of life? You could say the same about the cotton mills in the Lancs and Yorkshire...

Has/will, "the ballot box" help those "Lancs and Yorkshire cotton mills", or rather the working populations? How? I don't really have an answer. But I doubt Brexit is the answer.

beeswax wrote:Why are most of the other EU countries dissatisfied with Brussels and voters are turning against the EU? Exactly why Brexit happened and may well extend to others.

Why was Trump elected in the US?

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Re: Local Authority Brexit Impact Studies

#158965

Postby ursaminortaur » August 12th, 2018, 1:56 pm

beeswax wrote:
XFool wrote:Another thing...

As Brexit seems to have taken over everything else in government and politics there is no discussion going on about the future of social care (a council responsibility). Northamptonshire council is supposed to have made some serious financial mistakes, but there is more to it than that. And they aren't the only one (both Con and Lab) in trouble:

BBC News

And as for those of the Brexit persuasion who claim: "It isn't about the economy. Other things are more important."

Wait and see...

I buy the argument about "the working class" and why they voted for Brexit at the Referendum - likely the only voting option open to them to send a message. But - Who will be most affected by councils and their services going bust in future? And, if they are unhappy now (the evidence is they are), how much happier will they be in future following Brexit (particularly if "hard")?

To me, over the long term, a hard Brexit still looks like a tragic 'Lose, Lose' scenario for "the working class", rather than a solution.

Trump? Ask yourself a question: "Was the USA ever in the EU?"


We haven't left the EU yet and so what IS the reason why LA's are running out of money?

There will always be an underclass of people that haven't shared in the prosperity of the nation. I said much the same back when we had tens of billions coming in from North Sea oil during the Thatcher years...Brexit won't change that but the ONLY thing they have is the ballot box..Ask all those in fishing and mining communities what happened to decimate their way of life? You could say the same about the cotton mills in the Lancs and Yorkshire...


The decline of the cotton mills happened way before we joined the EEC/EU.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nationonfilm/topics/textiles/background_decline.shtml

By 1912 the cotton industry in Britain was at its peak producing eight billion yards of cloth, but the outbreak of World War One spelt disaster for textiles in the North West.
During the war, cotton could no longer be exported to the foreign markets and those countries, particularly Japan, set up their own factories.
Not only were these countries producing their own cloth, they were doing it more cheaply than Britain.
By 1933 Japan had introduced 24 hour cotton production and became the world's largest cotton manufacturer.
.
.
.
In the 1950s and 60s there was a huge influx of workers from the Indian sub-continent who were encouraged to seek work in Lancashire.
An increased work force allowed the mill owners to introduce a third shift or night shift to the working routine although many workers were less than pleased with the changing hours.
The resurgence in the textile industry was short lived and by 1958, the country which had given birth to the textile industry became a net importer of cotton cloth.
The Cotton Industry Act of 1959 was intended to help modernise and amalgamate the industry.
Mill closures occurred throughout Lancashire, but cost cutting did little to improve industry profits. Lancashire was still failing to compete with foreign competition.
During the 1960s and 70s, mills were closed across Lancashire at a rate of almost one a week.


It was an early example of the effects of globalisation with cotton mills in other countries, having introduced modern industrialised processes, catching up and overtaking the UK. No action by any UK government could have changed that so it didn't matter what the cotton mill workers in the UK did at the ballot box.

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Re: Local Authority Brexit Impact Studies

#159046

Postby Charlottesquare » August 12th, 2018, 6:01 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:
beeswax wrote:
XFool wrote:Another thing...

As Brexit seems to have taken over everything else in government and politics there is no discussion going on about the future of social care (a council responsibility). Northamptonshire council is supposed to have made some serious financial mistakes, but there is more to it than that. And they aren't the only one (both Con and Lab) in trouble:

BBC News

And as for those of the Brexit persuasion who claim: "It isn't about the economy. Other things are more important."

Wait and see...

I buy the argument about "the working class" and why they voted for Brexit at the Referendum - likely the only voting option open to them to send a message. But - Who will be most affected by councils and their services going bust in future? And, if they are unhappy now (the evidence is they are), how much happier will they be in future following Brexit (particularly if "hard")?

To me, over the long term, a hard Brexit still looks like a tragic 'Lose, Lose' scenario for "the working class", rather than a solution.

Trump? Ask yourself a question: "Was the USA ever in the EU?"


We haven't left the EU yet and so what IS the reason why LA's are running out of money?

There will always be an underclass of people that haven't shared in the prosperity of the nation. I said much the same back when we had tens of billions coming in from North Sea oil during the Thatcher years...Brexit won't change that but the ONLY thing they have is the ballot box..Ask all those in fishing and mining communities what happened to decimate their way of life? You could say the same about the cotton mills in the Lancs and Yorkshire...


The decline of the cotton mills happened way before we joined the EEC/EU.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/nationonfilm/topics/textiles/background_decline.shtml

By 1912 the cotton industry in Britain was at its peak producing eight billion yards of cloth, but the outbreak of World War One spelt disaster for textiles in the North West.
During the war, cotton could no longer be exported to the foreign markets and those countries, particularly Japan, set up their own factories.
Not only were these countries producing their own cloth, they were doing it more cheaply than Britain.
By 1933 Japan had introduced 24 hour cotton production and became the world's largest cotton manufacturer.
.
.
.
In the 1950s and 60s there was a huge influx of workers from the Indian sub-continent who were encouraged to seek work in Lancashire.
An increased work force allowed the mill owners to introduce a third shift or night shift to the working routine although many workers were less than pleased with the changing hours.
The resurgence in the textile industry was short lived and by 1958, the country which had given birth to the textile industry became a net importer of cotton cloth.
The Cotton Industry Act of 1959 was intended to help modernise and amalgamate the industry.
Mill closures occurred throughout Lancashire, but cost cutting did little to improve industry profits. Lancashire was still failing to compete with foreign competition.
During the 1960s and 70s, mills were closed across Lancashire at a rate of almost one a week.


It was an early example of the effects of globalisation with cotton mills in other countries, having introduced modern industrialised processes, catching up and overtaking the UK. No action by any UK government could have changed that so it didn't matter what the cotton mill workers in the UK did at the ballot box.


Agreed, you cannot buck international comparative advantage, wishful thinking does nothing, nor does Brexi's stated aim of free trade agreements with ROW re selling our goods to those markets. We can gain limited market traction in these markets because what they are prepared, and can afford, to purchase from us is limited and even if we get free trade agreements with developing countries our market penetration will be slight.

What we need is market penetration into markets with higher GDP per capita, the sorts of markets our membership of the EU actually gave and was slowly giving to us, and which we now appear to be discarding.

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Re: Local Authority Brexit Impact Studies

#159193

Postby BobbyD » August 13th, 2018, 12:11 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:In the 1950s and 60s there was a huge influx of workers from the Indian sub-continent who were encouraged to seek work in Lancashire.
An increased work force allowed the mill owners to introduce a third shift or night shift to the working routine although many workers were less than pleased with the changing hours.


There were also numerous government programmes to bring workers over from Europe including specifically Germany, Austria and Italy.


See for example: German Migrants in Post-war Britain - An Enemy Embrace

By 1951, a total of almost 60,000 Germans had come to Britain, either temporarily or permanently. Within this group there were approximately 10,000 war brides and around 35,000 female workers. These were recruited either by the government employment agencies or recruited privately, mainly for the health system, domestic service and the textile industry, respectively.


- https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eku ... ar&f=false

Charlottesquare wrote:Agreed, you cannot buck international comparative advantage, wishful thinking does nothing, nor does Brexi's stated aim of free trade agreements with ROW re selling our goods to those markets.


Pah, tell that to the NK giant with it's state ideology of Juche, or 'self reliance', something Trump appears to have picked up during his meetings with Kim.

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Re: Local Authority Brexit Impact Studies

#159196

Postby Charlottesquare » August 13th, 2018, 12:18 pm

BobbyD wrote:
ursaminortaur wrote:In the 1950s and 60s there was a huge influx of workers from the Indian sub-continent who were encouraged to seek work in Lancashire.
An increased work force allowed the mill owners to introduce a third shift or night shift to the working routine although many workers were less than pleased with the changing hours.


There were also numerous government programmes to bring workers over from Europe including specifically Germany, Austria and Italy.


See for example: German Migrants in Post-war Britain - An Enemy Embrace

By 1951, a total of almost 60,000 Germans had come to Britain, either temporarily or permanently. Within this group there were approximately 10,000 war brides and around 35,000 female workers. These were recruited either by the government employment agencies or recruited privately, mainly for the health system, domestic service and the textile industry, respectively.


- https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eku ... ar&f=false

Charlottesquare wrote:Agreed, you cannot buck international comparative advantage, wishful thinking does nothing, nor does Brexi's stated aim of free trade agreements with ROW re selling our goods to those markets.


Pah, tell that to the NK giant with it's state ideology of Juche, or 'self reliance', something Trump appears to have picked up during his meetings with Kim.


The catch with internal self reliance (build ourselves what our market needs) is that once one starts down that route the damage to our economy of changing one's mind becomes worse and worse , it is akin to going on a bender where the only solution, to avoid the hangover, is to never sober up.

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Re: Local Authority Brexit Impact Studies

#159201

Postby BobbyD » August 13th, 2018, 12:25 pm

Charlottesquare wrote:
The catch with internal self reliance (build ourselves what our market needs) is that once one starts down that route the damage to our economy of changing one's mind becomes worse and worse , it is akin to going on a bender where the only solution, to avoid the hangover, is to never sober up.


The catch with self-reliance is it is built on either desperation or delusions of exceptionalism and a complete misunderstanding of the operation of economic systems...


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